#261638 by Nottingham Nick
07 Dec 2009, 14:46
I normally wouldn't respond to posters who have made >50 posts and haven't taken out a membership, [;)] but will make an exception here.

You live in the most litigious society on earth (though we are catching up fast [V] ). There only seems one option here - get lawyers involved.
The fact as you have reported them seem as straight forward as they can be and, unless I am missing something, VS have screwed up big style and deserve a kicking - even if this involves buying you full price seats on your original flights.

What would have happened if you hadn't tried to book seats? Would they have turned you away at the airport? I don't see why there is any debate you have the proof with your receipt / itinerary - what more do you need?



Nick
#731455 by daywalker
07 Dec 2009, 16:53
quote:Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
I normally wouldn't respond to posters who have made >50 posts and haven't taken out a membership, [;)] but will make an exception here.


[:(!][ii]
No one should feel pressured into paying.
This sort of comment was one reason why I resisted for so long.
This sort of attitude is one reason why I won't be renewing so well done Nick. [y]
#731469 by Alex V
07 Dec 2009, 18:29
quote:Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
I normally wouldn't respond to posters who have made >50 posts and haven't taken out a membership, [;)] but will make an exception here.


Nick


Absolutely not needed, poor form [V][V][V][V][V]

Alex
#731524 by Nottingham Nick
07 Dec 2009, 22:30
quote:Originally posted by Alex V
quote:Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
I normally wouldn't respond to posters who have made >50 posts and haven't taken out a membership, [;)] but will make an exception here.
Nick


Absolutely not needed, poor form [V][V][V][V][V]

Alex


I fail to see why, but at the risk of dragging the thread completely off topic, feel I ought to respond.

I was merely stating a fact, I have spent hours and hours of my time over the past few years trying to help people on this site.

I (and many, many other site regulars) answer question after question to do with flying with Virgin and anything else that comes up. It is really nice when people show gratitude by becoming a member of the site and helping Pete pay the not insubstantial running costs of the site.

If people don't want to do this, then fine I don't have a problem with that. It is free country, and I try and help everyone without prejudice.

However, it is usually my personal choice to stop offering advice after a certain number of posts. That doesn't mean that the other very helpful V-Flyers will do the same, or that there is a limit on the number of posts non-members can make. It is just my way .

If that upsets anyone, then I don't think that is my concern.

Yes, it was an unsubtle hint, but as I say - Pete pays a lot of money to keep the site going.

Anyway, back on topic, I am glad VS have come through and you have a seat on the original flight. [;)]

Nick
#731544 by narikin
08 Dec 2009, 00:29
Nick, re: membership. no offense was taken on my part.
thanks for your time and this useful site.

good to know that the higher ups at VS do keep an eye on it too.
have yet to be confirmed, so lets see where we are in 48hrs!

thanks all. what ever did we do before the internet?
#731551 by Bill S
08 Dec 2009, 01:48
Sorry for the excursion off-topic but I do feel I should support Nick.
Running a site such as this does cost - both time and money.
I do feel very grateful to those such as Pete and Nick who give so much - the number of posts indicates just how much some members put into this.
The savings that one can get by using this site frequently far outweigh the charges we pay out and I am very happy to help.

So a gentle hint now and again, I feel is quite acceptable. Much better that than the alternative which was discussed some time ago of restricting posts to members. Much better that payment is voluntary.

I believe the independence from VS is important and it is right that Pete maintains that without accepting payment from them - but that does mean that we must help.

So many thanks to all those who contribute so much.
#731553 by n/a
08 Dec 2009, 03:01
Oh no! Someone made a gentle hint about membership! Someone intimated that it might be nice to throw a coin or two at Olde Pete! Crucify him! [:0]

And good form from the OP for seeing Nick's comment as the subtle and inoffensive animadversion which it was! [y] Sir, I should like to buy you a pint.

Why wuv woo, Nottingham Nick! [:X]

Back OT: I was holding my breath to the end of the thread, hoping this would end up well and it apparently has! Wonderful stuff [y] And the fact that our lord (and, why not, saviour) Richard of Mannion has swooped down from his lofty redoubt to assist you personally (personally!) is quite something special, indeed.

Enjoy your trip -- you've certainly earned it!

GJ
#731554 by daywalker
08 Dec 2009, 03:08
quote:Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
Oh no! Someone made a gentle hint about membership! Someone intimated that it might be nice to throw a coin or two at Olde Pete! Crucify him! [:0]

Some people just look for a reason to be offended, I think. [V] Why wuv woo, Nottingham Nick! [:X]


Nope, I just felt it was and is uncalled for and not the first time such comments have been made from him and it's off putting to new members IMO.

Most sites like this are free to users as the sites generate income from other sources.

If you set up a website you should know what you're getting into (and to be fair I've never heard Pete moan about the costs ulike Nick does, and it's not even his site).

It doesn't need someone to pass out the begging bowl, everyone knows what's what on here.
#731556 by n/a
08 Dec 2009, 03:13
quote:Originally posted by daywalker
quote:Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
Oh no! Someone made a gentle hint about membership! Someone intimated that it might be nice to throw a coin or two at Olde Pete! Crucify him! [:0]

Some people just look for a reason to be offended, I think. [V] Why wuv woo, Nottingham Nick! [:X]


Nope, I just felt it was and is uncalled for and not the first time such comments have been made from him and it's off putting to new members IMO.

Most sites like this are free to users as the sites generate income from other sources.

If you set up a website you should know what you're getting into (and to be fair I've never heard Pete moan about the costs ulike Nick does, and it's not even his site).

It doesn't need someone to pass out the begging bowl, everyone knows what's what on here.


I edited my post as you were writing yours so please note I took out the line captured above. I considered it, on reflection, to be overly incendiary. But you caught it fair and square.

daywalker, your heart has its reasons. I respect the fact you may feel offended. But I simply don't share your sensitivity to, nor interpretation of, what Nick said.

GJ
#731597 by Alex V
08 Dec 2009, 14:19
quote:Originally posted by Bill S
Sorry for the excursion off-topic but I do feel I should support Nick.
Running a site such as this does cost - both time and money.
I do feel very grateful to those such as Pete and Nick who give so much - the number of posts indicates just how much some members put into this.
The savings that one can get by using this site frequently far outweigh the charges we pay out and I am very happy to help.

So a gentle hint now and again, I feel is quite acceptable. Much better that than the alternative which was discussed some time ago of restricting posts to members. Much better that payment is voluntary.

I believe the independence from VS is important and it is right that Pete maintains that without accepting payment from them - but that does mean that we must help.

So many thanks to all those who contribute so much.


Completely agree the reason why some people join is not because they fly reguarly but because the members on here are friendly and its that which appeals, just looking at the barchats its clear to see there is a healthy and friendly area away from the main site which is sometimes really not that interesting if one is not knowledgable enough on that given subject.
People join here for all sorts of reasons, straight away, sometimes later but they do it when thay feel part of a community, or that good advice should be rewarded. Either way there is plenty of areas to let you know there is a way of contributing to this excellent site and i cant thank Pete enough for HIS hard work on this site.

So Nicks glib remark that he wont respond to people who wont fork out after x amount of posts i thought was careless (keep it to yourself) and wont do the site any favours, you cant force people to pay!

cheers

Alex
#731599 by Decker
08 Dec 2009, 14:25
Actualy you CAN force people to pay by making it a subscription only site. Pete and the mods have opted not to do that because they're genuinely nice people who want to help people to maximise their Virgin experience but occasionally the odd hint that it is possible for people to help defray the sites' running costs directly doesn't go amiss.
#731601 by Alex V
08 Dec 2009, 14:47
Correction! you can try and force people to pay but then you would have an even smaller amount of members, so it makes complete sense to make it a super friendly site where people will want to join, and careless remarks wont encourage more subscribers.

I have made my point clearly and i see no reason for any other moderator to jump in, everyone who uses this site can see the potential in it and therefore will hopefully contribute, there has been many nudges and prompts from members asking newbies to contribute into this service when they need advice, which is the way it should be done if its needed, but its how its said which isnt helpfull!

Thats my point, lets move on

Cheers

Alex
#731618 by daywalker
08 Dec 2009, 18:09
quote:Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
quote:Originally posted by daywalker
quote:Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
Oh no! Someone made a gentle hint about membership! Someone intimated that it might be nice to throw a coin or two at Olde Pete! Crucify him! [:0]

Some people just look for a reason to be offended, I think. [V] Why wuv woo, Nottingham Nick! [:X]


Nope, I just felt it was and is uncalled for and not the first time such comments have been made from him and it's off putting to new members IMO.

Most sites like this are free to users as the sites generate income from other sources.

If you set up a website you should know what you're getting into (and to be fair I've never heard Pete moan about the costs ulike Nick does, and it's not even his site).

It doesn't need someone to pass out the begging bowl, everyone knows what's what on here.


I edited my post as you were writing yours so please note I took out the line captured above. I considered it, on reflection, to be overly incendiary. But you caught it fair and square.

daywalker, your heart has its reasons. I respect the fact you may feel offended. But I simply don't share your sensitivity to, nor interpretation of, what Nick said.

GJ

No probs GJ [y][:)]
I agree with how Alex V has worded the situation above so that's me done on the subject too [:)]
#732242 by Baldyman
18 Dec 2009, 10:52
quote:Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
quote:Originally posted by Alex V
quote:Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
I normally wouldn't respond to posters who have made >50 posts and haven't taken out a membership, [;)] but will make an exception here.
Nick


Absolutely not needed, poor form [V][V][V][V][V]

Alex


I fail to see why, but at the risk of dragging the thread completely off topic, feel I ought to respond.

I was merely stating a fact, I have spent hours and hours of my time over the past few years trying to help people on this site.

I (and many, many other site regulars) answer question after question to do with flying with Virgin and anything else that comes up. It is really nice when people show gratitude by becoming a member of the site and helping Pete pay the not insubstantial running costs of the site.

If people don't want to do this, then fine I don't have a problem with that. It is free country, and I try and help everyone without prejudice.

However, it is usually my personal choice to stop offering advice after a certain number of posts. That doesn't mean that the other very helpful V-Flyers will do the same, or that there is a limit on the number of posts non-members can make. It is just my way .

If that upsets anyone, then I don't think that is my concern.

Yes, it was an unsubtle hint, but as I say - Pete pays a lot of money to keep the site going.

Anyway, back on topic, I am glad VS have come through and you have a seat on the original flight. [;)]

Nick


Narikin has posted some extremely useful information for anyone booking a partner reward flight. Advice was sought, yet at the same time, Narikin provides a significant piece of advice for anyone with a partner reward booking. The post provides useful content to the forum which is supposed to be a fun and informative resource for people with a common interest to collaborate. Forcing people to become paid members restricts content.

Everyone appreciates those that run the site and the contributors. Restricting people from using the site has the knock on effect of reducing the volume of advertising click through, which could be a valuable source of income rather than charging members. Open up the site and more income might be generated.

Amazon Web Services costs a few dollars a month to run a site like this, so that might be worth a look.

I would have thought that posters and those running the site are doing it because they enjoy it, it's not supposed to be a chore.
#732245 by Nottingham Nick
18 Dec 2009, 11:54
I have split this topic away from narikin's original post in an attempt to keep that one on topic.

Please feel free to continue the debate here. It is always good debate the best way of running the site and to get feedback on posts. [;)][:D]

Nick
#732249 by Scrooge
18 Dec 2009, 12:25
quote:Originally posted by Baldyman
quote:Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
quote:Originally posted by Alex V
quote:Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
I normally wouldn't respond to posters who have made >50 posts and haven't taken out a membership, [;)] but will make an exception here.
Nick


Absolutely not needed, poor form [V][V][V][V][V]

Alex


I fail to see why, but at the risk of dragging the thread completely off topic, feel I ought to respond.

I was merely stating a fact, I have spent hours and hours of my time over the past few years trying to help people on this site.

I (and many, many other site regulars) answer question after question to do with flying with Virgin and anything else that comes up. It is really nice when people show gratitude by becoming a member of the site and helping Pete pay the not insubstantial running costs of the site.

If people don't want to do this, then fine I don't have a problem with that. It is free country, and I try and help everyone without prejudice.

However, it is usually my personal choice to stop offering advice after a certain number of posts. That doesn't mean that the other very helpful V-Flyers will do the same, or that there is a limit on the number of posts non-members can make. It is just my way .

If that upsets anyone, then I don't think that is my concern.

Yes, it was an unsubtle hint, but as I say - Pete pays a lot of money to keep the site going.

Anyway, back on topic, I am glad VS have come through and you have a seat on the original flight. [;)]

Nick


Narikin has posted some extremely useful information for anyone booking a partner reward flight. Advice was sought, yet at the same time, Narikin provides a significant piece of advice for anyone with a partner reward booking. The post provides useful content to the forum which is supposed to be a fun and informative resource for people with a common interest to collaborate. Forcing people to become paid members restricts content.

Everyone appreciates those that run the site and the contributors. Restricting people from using the site has the knock on effect of reducing the volume of advertising click through, which could be a valuable source of income rather than charging members. Open up the site and more income might be generated.

Amazon Web Services costs a few dollars a month to run a site like this, so that might be worth a look.

I would have thought that posters and those running the site are doing it because they enjoy it, it's not supposed to be a chore.


I don't think you will find a moderator here that will say it is a chore at all, compared to most forums this one is pretty easy to 'police', except for the occasional storm in a tea cup and the odd ego driven post it is pretty smooth sailing, I spend the vast majority of my mod time cleaning up HTML.

For the first few years the site did try and go the ad route, simply put it didn't work, when the topic of switching to a fee based system came up it was debated at length, i'm not talking about a couple of hours, it was more like months of us all going back and forth about it.

The problem at the time was of course server and bandwidth costs, some of the bills that were coming in were frankly scary, the advertising revenue did not even come close to covering it, however due to donations and Pete coming out of his own pocket the site stayed up.

Yes going to the fee based system has cut the number of people posting, however this had had the effect of reducing server loads so the site is quicker, a couple of years ago the site would crash on a daily basis, something that in reality just can't happen. It has also allowed the site to run at a pretty much break even position, which is better than losing money I think everyone will agree.

Now recently there was a change to allow anyone to post in the general discussion, all that is asked is that you register which of course is free. This move was to encourage new members to post and with a little luck to contribute towards the up keep of the site.

Nobody is going to make anyone pay, but every now and again a reminder will be put out there, you can choose to ignore it, that's ok, nobody will get offended if you do [:D]
#732251 by Neil
18 Dec 2009, 12:31
An interesting discussion that had passed me by.

There is a lot that could be said on the issue, but I think Nick and Bill have summed it up pretty well. I certainly don't think the odd hint here and there is a bad thing, especially when you consider the benefits that are gained by being a paid up member on here, I certainly have gained a lot in my near 4 years here.

Keep up the good work Mods, and here's to another top year on V-Flyer for 2010.[y][y]
#732253 by Alex V
18 Dec 2009, 12:36
Excellent idea!! i cant see any reason why you would want to put this thread hidden away in a quite corner..no not at all[V][V][V]

This thread makes absolutely no sense at all now and does not have any real relevance to site develpoment as you well know nick.

This site is about open and decent debate if someone says something and others dont agree i dont expect that thread to be brushed away as a matter of convenience, as a moderator i think you have abused the trust given and tried to save face[:?]

Alex
#732255 by Darren Wheeler
18 Dec 2009, 12:52
Hardly hidden away. Most visitors use the 'Active Topics' link to see everything new since their last visit. Shows up there loud and clear.

No-one is forced to join in the same way no-one is forced to visit the site. A little hint now and again never hurts, especially when asking for things like load checks.
#732257 by jaguarpig
18 Dec 2009, 13:07
quote:Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
Most visitors use the 'Active Topics' link to see everything new since their last visit. Shows up there loud and clear.



As I have just done.

I had totally missed the original thread,is the cold making everyone a little touchy.
#732258 by Guest
18 Dec 2009, 13:12
quote:Originally posted by jaguarpig
,is the cold making everyone a little touchy.


[y] Something is; I am feeling very unloved this week [B)] Was supposed to be flying to Boston today but pulled it as feeling unproductive and down [:#]

So Wishing everying a Very Merry Christmas (including the MODs [:p]) [:)]
#732259 by mdvipond
18 Dec 2009, 13:14
A Seasonal Ode:

Christmas is coming, GJ is getting fat
Please put a penny in old Pete's hat
If you haven't got a penny, a ha'penny will do
If you haven't got a ha'penny, well, blame Gordon Brown...

I admit it could scan better, but at least the underlying sentiment is there. I thank you.
#732263 by Nottingham Nick
18 Dec 2009, 13:26
quote:Originally posted by Alex V
.....Excellent idea!! i cant see any reason why you would want to put this thread hidden away in a quite corner..no not at all[V][V][V]


Sorry, but that is complete tosh. Firstly if I had wanted to stifle the debate, I could simply have locked or deleted the posts I didn't like.

Secondly, it isn't hidden away at all, if I had wanted to do that I could have put it in the offtopic or clubhouse forums, so that only members could see it - the website forum is open to all to post and, as Darren says, most people use active topics to see new posts since their last visit.

The purpose of splitting was to bring the debate into the open instead of having it hidden away in a thread about narikin's cancelled reward flights.

As for the comment about abusing trust, I won't even stoop to react to that.

Nick
#732280 by n/a
18 Dec 2009, 15:11
quote:Originally posted by mdvipond
A Seasonal Ode:

Christmas is coming, GJ is getting fat
Please put a penny in old Pete's hat
If you haven't got a penny, a ha'penny will do
If you haven't got a ha'penny, well, blame Gordon Brown...

I admit it could scan better, but at least the underlying sentiment is there. I thank you.


I am not getting fat. [V]

God, there are some strange people around here...

GJ
#732286 by Pete
18 Dec 2009, 15:49
Just for the record, I'm not a huge fan of the subscription model - but as Scrooge points out - at the time it was debated (at great length) it was the right option then; partly because a situation was developing at the time where the majority of posts were new users asking questions that had been asked many times before, and the exponential rise in bandwidth usage we were seeing back then was going way over our ISP allocation, so the 'overage' charges were pretty significant and unsustainable. The subscription model was introduced to encourage people to search the site rather than to blindly post, and also to bring the bandwidth usage under control. As Scrooge mentioned, we also had a lot of problems with server reliability back then, and this was another reason the subscription model was the right choice.

Since then we've moved to a new web host, and with it significantly increased the amount of bandwidth in our standard plan to accommodate the rather large amount of traffic this site receives. This reduced the monthly running costs of the site, and made it a lot more reliable. We were then able to open up parts of the forum to non-subscribers again, although the intention is always to have some areas dedicated to those who 'chip in' to the costs.

When the site was first created in 2003, it was built on Microsoft ASP technology using the Snitz Forum. Both technologies have since stopped development, and I'll be the first to admit that the birdsnest of code that runs V-Flyer today is badly in need of a refresh. In the background I have been working with the moderating team on developing a completely new site. Built on a completely new codebase, with features that open up V-Flyer to the many social media sites that people already use. The biggest hurdle, and one that I've still not solved to my satisfaction, is transferring all the content from V-Flyer to the new platform; but every time I have another go at it, I push over another barrier, so eventually I'll crack it and we'll be able to move to the new site. When we do, I would like to take the opportunity to change the subscription model so those who contribute still get extra benefits, but the forums are re-opened to general posting throughout. The moderating team is yet to have that discussion, but your thoughts are welcomed.

In the meantime I'd like to thank everyone who contributes to V-Flyer, whether it be financially, through their moderating skills or simply with interesting discussion. All are equally valuable to me.

Pete
Virgin Atlantic

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