Newbie Board

Hello,

I've been on v-flyer for a few months now and I must say that I've spent a lot of my time on here and found it both useful, educational and fun.

Something I feel is missing from this board is a "newbie" section.

Even during my short time here, I've seen so many new people join the forum and ask the same questions etc. These posts are often responded to promptly by the knowledable people on here, however, someone the responses are a bit "we've been asked this question a 1000 times use the search function!" - but clearly this doesn't work for all.

I would recommend introducing a "newbie" board in the main board index. A place for:

- New members to introduce themselves.
- Existing v-flyers can welcome new members.
- The likely questions in here will be easily visable to all, i.e. best places to sit on different types of aircraft etc.

This then leaves the other areas forum/boards for the more experienced to discuss as they see fit, without the intrusion (this is perceived) of the inexperienced.

This may or may not have been discussed or recommended before, but I do think it really would have a place on v-flyer.

Your thoughts would be appreciated!

Luke

[honey lamb]

Hi Luke

I know where you're coming from. It's always difficult when dealing with questions in a relatively restricted forum such as this. After all, there is a limit to the number of questions that a newbie can ask that hasn't already answered before. The search function is there to assist people and hopefully people will use it. However we accept what you say about newbies but we would hope we we would be helpful in directing them to the appropriate response especially if it is something that hasn't come up recently

In some ways a FAQs would be useful - but the time and effort needed to maintain them would make that difficult as some things change quite rapidly. I feel we already ask quite a lot of Pete and the Mods.

Repeat questions is a general problem for all boards - perhaps we need a simple tutorial on how to use Google advanced and how to insert the site name to get a list of all matching topics

One of the good things about V-Flyer is the number of people who are willing to answer questions and the way that many contribute. It is a concern though that quite a few of the longer term members seem to be disappearing - and that the guest/member ratio seems to be increasing considerably.

Having a newbies section would only work if many non-newbies also used it and contributed. I would not like to think that it added to the work load of a few.

[Scrooge]

I may be in the minority here, but I have no issue with newbies asking the same questions time and again, over time the answers can change and lets face it, we all need a refresher class once and a while.

We did look at doing a real FAQ section, but quickly discovered that keeping it up to date was just way to time consuming.

[Neil]

Strangely I agree with Scrooge.

I understand what you are saying Luke, but I think as a site we are really good at helping any new member find their feet. Yes, you will get repeat questions, but there are so many different variations of the same question (which is the best seat in Y/PE/UC on the LHR 747/LGW 747/A346/A340/A330 etc etc) that it makes it almost impossible to have a concise and accurate FAQ section.

Also, I think by a newbie asking a question it helps to get them part of the site, and by allowing our very well informed members to answer the question and point them in the right direction, it helps them understand how we operate as a site.

I'm not a fan of the 'say hi' type of forums, I would much rather a newbie join in on a debate or ask a topic and get involved with what the site is here for.

[Nottingham Nick]

We do have a FAQ section - http://v-flyer.com/faq

The problem with it, as several posters have alluded to, is maintaining it.

For it to be a worthwhile document, that we are happy to point newbies to, it will require hours of work. This work has been done several times, but almost as soon as it is done - it is out of date.

It is right to say that there are a lot of helpful people here, who will take the time to answer the repeat questions, do load checks and generally welcome people.

The site is far from perfect, we have had many complaints of elitism, and there are the occasional debates that get too heated, but generally it seems to work well. Everyone can post their thoughts and views, but no one can expect that everyone will agree with them all the time.

We encourage robust debate, that doesn't descend to name calling. We try to keep the posts readable, by discouraging text speak and other modern net trends. We pride ourselves in the fully inclusive nature of the site. Racist, sexist, homophobic or other insulting posts are strictly forbidden.

All in all, the current maxim is - "if it ain't broke don't fix it", but threads like this, with views of members are fantastic, so - if you feel we have got it wrong - please make suggestions that will make the site better for everyone.

Nick

Same I agree with Scrooge, Start introducing separate areas for Newbies you run the risk of elite tiering..

Can just see it happening..Odd questions heading into main forums and some cocky remark about "have you not see the FAQ!!"

Think number of people willing to respond to repeat stuff, helps to give VF that friendly edge against some less approachable sites and maybe brings some people back down to earth and into the whole VF vibe....

I think some very standard FAQ with associated links however wouldn't go amiss
"how do I get upgradable fares" - ping to VS FC page
"What A/C will I be on" - ping to VF aircraft/route page
"what menu" - Tinks menus
"load check please" - subscribe first, the site isn't a charity !

many people won't use search facilities, as experience of other internet sites generally find them of little worth..

Basically some of the standardised links which don't really change, keeping maintenance down.

Do think that all these load requests for non-subscribing members are a bit cheeky...but thats my personal opinion..

NH

One of the excellent things I have noticed on V-Flyer is that yesterday's newbie becomes today's advice provider and you, dear Luke, are a perfect example of that.

[Scrooge]

One of the excellent things I have noticed on V-Flyer is that yesterday's newbie becomes today's advice provider and you, dear Luke, are a perfect example of that.

Exactly, I have been on here for a while now, I have watched members come and go, some have stuck around and have taken a leading role in answering questions. When life happens (work etc) there always seems to be someone ready to step up and take the place of the resident info wizard, it really is one part that makes this a great site.

One of the excellent things I have noticed on V-Flyer is that yesterday's newbie becomes today's advice provider and you, dear Luke, are a perfect example of that.

That's a really nice compliment - thank you

I'm not a fan of the 'say hi' type of forums, I would much rather a newbie join in on a debate or ask a topic and get involved with what the site is here for.

Strangest thing yet - I have to agree with Neil (once every seven years isn't a bad average, is it?).

I've seen 'Newbie' or 'Welcome' sections on other fora, and it just becomes a long list of "Hi, first-time poster here" which is, frankly, annoying. The vast majority of folk have the common sense to use the Search function properly, or just to take a bit of time to familiarise themselves and find their way around the site. Hell, that's what I had to do...

Thank you to everyone for taking the time to come back to me.

I understand an FAQ would be very challenging to keep up to date, but also, the majority of queries we receive are often route/person specific so impossible to cover all options.

NH has made some good points about some more "general FAQ’s" - schedule for menu changes on board (when to expect this), what a load check looks like and what it means etc etc.

Sometimes the responses to newbie questions are a little blunt i.e. "a bit more information would help" - a newbie may not necessarily know what information is best to give, especially if they pop into the main forums where recent discussion has been far more detailed than what they may deem to be a basic request.

If the consensus is that a newbie section would not be right for v-flyer than I fully understand that.

Luke

[Neil]

Sometimes the responses to newbie questions are a little blunt i.e. "a bit more information would help" - a newbie may not necessarily know what information is best to give, especially if they pop into the main forums where recent discussion has been far more detailed than what they may deem to be a basic request.

Not sure I necessarily agree with you there.

I think the site and it's members are very welcoming for new members, especially when they don't always help themselves with the way they word or project their question/query. Go look over on FT if you want blunt replies to newbie posts

Sometimes the responses to newbie questions are a little blunt i.e. "a bit more information would help" - a newbie may not necessarily know what information is best to give, especially if they pop into the main forums where recent discussion has been far more detailed than what they may deem to be a basic request.

Not sure I necessarily agree with you there.

I think the site and it's members are very welcoming for new members, especially when they don't always help themselves with the way they word or project their question/query. Go look over on FT if you want blunt replies to newbie posts

Ok, thats an observation i've made. Not all the time but there have definitely been occasions since i've joined.

On FT and much prefer v-flyer (everyone is far nicer here!), hence the reason i'm making the effort here.

One potential solution to the FAQ question is to make this a self-moderating Wiki, lots of companies are doing this now for their customer help (I work with some very large consumer software manufacturers who are implementing this approach for their product support for example) - in this way common questions can be maintained by the crowd, without the overhead being on our great moderators.

The point about FAQs becoming stale quickly could, I think, be addressed by such a solution.

I hope we are mostly welcoming to new members - but I do feel frustrated sometimes that people don't look before they ask (I recall when I joined that even before posting I had a good look at all the site features, and I think that stopped me from asking some basic questions [others may disagree ]). Certainly, when I can, I like to respond.

[Neil]

One potential solution to the FAQ question is to make this a self-moderating Wiki, lots of companies are doing this now for their customer help (I work with some very large consumer software manufacturers who are implementing this approach for their product support for example) - in this way common questions can be maintained by the crowd, without the overhead being on our great moderators.

That is an interesting idea and I have noticed a couple of sites have created such a thing.

My concern would be, a bit like with Wikipedia, how accurate the information is in there. If it is open to anyone to edit it could easily get inaccurate information put it, after all some of the rules/T&C's can be very complicated.

Could be something to look at though.

I hope we are mostly welcoming to new members - but I do feel frustrated sometimes that people don't look before they ask (I recall when I joined that even before posting I had a good look at all the site features, and I think that stopped me from asking some basic questions [others may disagree ]). Certainly, when I can, I like to respond.

Indeed thats what I did - I looked around and read a few posts before I posted myself but there are lots of people who will just dive in and who don't have basic manners such as asking a quetion about X in a forum about Y - look at all the refund posts on the VS FB thread - no matter the subject someone will post there. Even on the Daily Mail report about the RSI case posted a question about their refund !

Maybe if the question has asked and answered we should refer people to the previous answer and the info in the toolbox.

Perhaps if some of us volunteered to look after particular FAQs etc that might help keep them up to date?

That is an interesting idea and I have noticed a couple of sites have created such a thing.

My concern would be, a bit like with Wikipedia, how accurate the information is in there. If it is open to anyone to edit it could easily get inaccurate information put it, after all some of the rules/T&C's can be very complicated.

Could be something to look at though.

A good point, and you have to take a risk with such things - the mitigation being that the crowd will find the error and correct it. It's interesting how some big corporations see the connectedness of their customer engagement as being heightened to such a degree that they are willing to take such a risk.

i joined this nforum last year and have found it to be invaluable with help and now like to give back a bit. the great thing is everyone is so friendly and always willing to help others. long may it stay so.

one immigration forum i use is full of grumpy sods who just say 'no chance' or 'read this xxx'
please never let VF sink to this level

I still consider myself a newbee(ish), although it's been 7 months or so now - so I can't use that excuse much longer!

I can see exactly where you're coming from Luke, but I'm personally not convinced that would work on this forum.

I'm honestly struggling to remember seeing any post that was abrupt with a newbee - in fact, I'd say this is one of the most polite and friendly forums I've come across - and that is a genuine comment.

I think the etiquette on this forum is exempliary - and only hope I can contribute more over time as my in depth knowledge grows.

It wasn't until I joined in here, that I realised how little I knew, and the folks here have been very patient answering my questions, and gently correcting my false ascertions etc.

All in all, I think we're good as we are.

But such suggestions are definitely worth a debate or two - otherwise nothing will ever change and challenging the norm is good sometimes:-)

Hi all. I am definitely a newbie in terms of posting, although I joined last year.
I have posted my first 3 questions in the past couple of weeks, which probably would have got short shrift on other sites, and I have received lots of courteous and extremely helpful replies. Thank you to everyone.
I think the inclusivity of this site is top.