Another ticket query (merged threads)

Last week my boyfriend booked seats to fly to Dubai but I am afraid I do not want to go. We've contacted VS who said fare changes not permitted but then they say we can do it if we book a bu/br fare. We had Upper class on outbound Z class, and Economy on return O class. Apparently the fare to Los Angeles would be over £5000 each.
We had originally asked them (pleaded in fact) if we could use the paid fare money towards two new flights to America, obviously paying the extra couple of thousand pounds and also the fees involved.
Was told go to Dubai, or cancel. No other choice until we cough up the full fare x 2. At present we are having to contemplate losing the Dubai fare costs of £1880.
Any offers of advice, please.

It looks as though you've made a costly mistake. Fare rules are just that, if everyone changed their mind after booking and VS accommodated them, things would be more expensive for all of us.

[Neil]

Slinky is 100% right, you've bought a discounted fare on both legs (Z is lowest UC fare and O is lowest econ fare) and they totally none refundable/changeable. Your BF will have either read that info online or would have been told it before booking, and it is the same with all airlines.

If you do decide to cancel you can claim back the taxes that you have paid, which will be a few hundred pounds.

I can only agree with the posts above, unfortunately there is nothing that can be done with regards to refunds/changes.

Having the Z class sector in there governs the entire return trip, which makes it non changeable and non refundable.

This isn't a case of Virgin being unreasonable, as the ticketing rules would have been perfectly clear when you purchased the tickets.

Ouch ! I'm sure the BF booked with the best intentions.

And sorry rules is rules and are there to be fair to everyone even if they do seam unreasonable.

Is there any particular reason why you don't want to go to Dubai? A few v-flyers have been there and have reported they have had really great trips.

You could just go to Dubai? I know a few people who've been and loved it there. Personally I'd jump at the chance if someone booked it for me!

Not that I'm questioning what VS would have said, but I've never heard of a bu/br fare....and I work for Virgin!

I assume by your post you mean a J class fare? Fully flex and fully refundable?

Hi, thankyou all so much for your replies, I know we do not stand any chance of getting our flights changed to the US but it was worth a shot to see if anyone out there had any advice.

Yes my boyfriend acted too hastily but that's the way he is - this will be a very sad learning curve.

I have been travelling each year with Virgin Atlantic for 19 years and I've got to confess I nor any of my travel partners have ever needed to change a flight and have never troubled to read the conditions of sale. Acknowledge a big mistake.

iGuyHD I came up with the br/bu details after reading this info which I now realise is always available under 'fare conditions' but like I said we didn't read it). " Penalties..
Changes, any time changes not permitted. Waived for illness or death of passenger or family member. Note - before departure of the outbound journey prior to departure of the original scheduled flight - may be used as credit towards the purchase of a bu/br fare type at a charge of gbp90 - reprice using current fares"
So that's where I got the br/bu fare details from. I wish they'd write it in understandable words because yes it must mean full fare cos. That's what VS have told us we've got to pay in order to use the cash already laid out.

Sadly we are going to cancel the flight and be grateful to get back the taxes associated with the fare. It is not Virgin's fault but how I wish they would compromise afterall we are offering another couple of grand + the change fees but we cannot afford two full fares, especially when we could actually re-book with VS going to SFO and it wouldn't cost the price of even one full fare! Needless to say any extra cash is not going into the VS bank. I guess we're small sprats in that big ocean where rules are rules.

He'd also made reservations at the Hilton Hotel on an advance booking paid up front fee. We have spoken to their customer services and are so pleased to report they have decided to refund his credit card. So rules can be negotiated sometimes.

Virgin have no reason to 'compromise' with regards to your booking - as stated above, were the rules not in place, or were we able to bend them for every passenger who needed to change destinations, or date, then it would defeat the object of having them in the first place.

With regards to the rules not being clear; it does state, quite clearly, the terms and conditions of purchase on the web booking engine, and all contact centre staff must inform passengers of the rules at the time of booking.

Hi horseto

A ticket change like this has been done before in slightly different circumstances. If you have a look at this thread on v-flyer from a year ago, dpscrest changed 5 Z class tickets. His situation was a little different in that he just want to change the date, not the destination but someone at VS did manage it for a small fee. The possibility of him being murdered by his wife may have extracted the necessary compassion from a sympathetic employee.

You just need to convice someone that impulsive boyfriend made a similar error to rash husband ......and that may not be easy.

It might be worth contacting dpscrest to see if he has any tips.

Thankyou Martin that is just the kind of info I was hoping for.

With respect iGuyHD I think all rules are negotiable and I actually used the wrong word earlier as I should have said compassion not compromise cos you are right - VS dont need to offer any deal.

I think your iconic leader Sir Richard is the best example in the world showing that rules can and are broken. That guy has got to where he is today by ignoring the rule-book and I respect every bone in his body for it. He has never lived by the "can't, won't or unable to" book.

My boyfriend owns a small optician business serving the public. He too has terms & conditions of purchase. However customer service always prevails with the 'little guys' like him. Recently he sold some really expensive specs with a high cost lens fitted to this smashing old gent who came back after a week saying they didn't fit properly but in the end he admitted he'd made a mistake and didn't like the frames. Jack changed the specs at a personal cost to himself but at the end of the day the old chap, along with numerous family members and friends of his, will come back to us. Sometimes customer service is more important than profit but then we are not in the league of won't and can't.

Sorry to go on and I am not trying to be confrontational, but we all make mistakes and I'd hoped there was someone out there to show both compassion and common sense.

[Darren Wheeler]

You can but ask.

Expect a "No" though. If you do get a "yes", that will be a bonus.

The problem you face is, that if they let you do it, it will open the flood gates.

Oh crickey no. You mean there are loads more idiots like my impulsive boyfriend? Seriously you are right, we've tried to no avail at this point in writing.

You mean there are loads more idiots like my impulsive boyfriend?

I'm sure he thought he was being all romantic and wanting to give you a nice surprise so don't be too hard on him.

He's probbaly feeling like cr*p at the moment so give him a hug (though you probbaly want to smack him one).

Do you not appreciate however that were Virgin to bend the rules for every passenger that rang, then it would negate the purpose of having ticketing rules in the first place?

The rules are in place to protect revenue, not to penalize passengers who make mistakes. It would be a free for all if we allowed changes to be made without cost or penalty.

It's not a matter of compassion, or common sense (which, I note, you imply I have neither) just a matter of business sense.

I understand that the situation is frustrating, but the rules are quite clear at the time of purchase, and it's not as if anyone has mislead you with regards to the tickets.

Wow, iGuyHD "....which, I note, you imply I have neither" where are you getting the personal attack bit from. Chill out, you have stated your point - you pointed out there are terms & conditions of business, so thankyou for your imput.

Thanks for the lighthearted advice tontybear, yeap the loveable fool always leads with his heart and not his head, guess that's why he's such a popular guy who would harm anyone.

Hello again. Just thought I would post the really sad outcome of my problem trying to persuade Virgin Atlantic to reconsider their non-refunable/non-changeable ticket policy.

As expected we were not allowed to (realistically) use any of the £1880 fare ticket paid for our Dubai flights, as per the condition stated on the ticket.

We told them we actually wanted to book two new fares to San Francisco which would total £5428 (yes, this is in their low fare price range but we'd still have to pay another £3548 ).
VS said any changes had to be worked out on full fares which on the SFO flights would cost £10,056.54 for two seats. Take £1880 from this amount and we would be left with paying VS another £8176.54 for the privilege of being allowed to alter the original fares.

After alot of deliberation (not) we decided take the £536 tax refund. Yes we've lost, and Virgin Altantic have gained, £1344.

Virgin Atlantic have their policy on the kind of fares we originally booked, rules are rules and I understand its all about Revenue. It was totally our fault & a mistake not to read the fare rules. We've had some wonderful travel journeys over the years with VS in all their seat classes.

However, will I rebook the seats to San Francisco with virgin atlantic - absolutely NOT.
When it comes to 2012 will we book our hen/stag fares to LAS & NYC with virgin atlantic - absolutely NOT.
Will we arrange the 31 VS fares to Australia when we eventually get married - absolutely NOT.

Now this is Revenue!!!!!!

So in one breath you've said it's totally your own fault and then in another you're blaming Virgin Atlantic?

Its is not about blame. I do not consider my post is confusing this issue.
It is just simply about choice and what makes logical sense.

[Nottingham Nick]

To prevent confusion, and to stop two discussions about the same subject going on together, I have merged the two threads about VS not refunding non-refundable tickets.

This will also make it easier for people to get the full story.

Nick

VS have my full support here - I can't imagine that other major operators would decide they would refund a non-refundable ticket.

VS have very little problem filling seats to SFO currently, and so by letting you buy a seat to SFO using the non-refundable cost of your other flight they may actually lose out overall.

I suggest you try the same trick with BA, AA etc and see how you get on... I don't think VS will be worrying too much about losing custom from someone who thinks the fare rules shouldn't apply to them.

Just my two pennies worth, if I'd been in this situation and stood to lose that much money, I'd simply go to Dubai :-)

All we know from Horsetwo's original post is "I do not want to go"....I guess though she must have an overriding reason why a trip to a popular luxury destination, is to be avoided at all costs, even if that means losing a shed load of hard earned cash...

Horsetwo, Just a quick question why were you so against the trip? It seems like a lovely thing to do. You wanted to go somewhere why not there? Just seems strange that you have made him lose all this money. You were asking virgin to compromise and have a bit of compassion, shouldn't you have compromised a bit and accepted your boyfriends rather generous gift as opposing to stomping your foot and saying "no don't want to I want to go to America!"...

Simply it was your choice not to go and what makes logical sense would have been to get on the plane.

If it was a fact that you felt excluded from the decision making process well fair enough but isn't that something you need to rationally discuss? possibly in UC all the way to Dubai? by the pool and when he is buying you lots of jewelery as he feels so guilty and then further on the way home?

I have to say unless there is something that I am missing from this story I do not see virgin Atlantic coming across as being the unreasonable party in all this.

Horsetwo,

At first, I just thought you were being pedantic, attempting to split the finest of hairs with regards to apportioning blame and/or responsibility with regards to your flights...

However, given the reply that you have posted, in which you state, quite clearly that 'this was our fault'...It is my contention that you are simply being bitter about Vaa being unwilling to pander to your demands.

Virgin are completely and utterly in the right about this, and you, conversely, are completely wrong.

As per Crispins suggestion above, why dont you attempt this with a competitor?...Id be interested to see the outcome.

Oh dear this thread has turned personal, attacking and insinuating I am a spoilt brat. You don't know that facts and I certainly am not going to begin to justify them to you.
This thread is not about whether you guys agree with my decision to go to Dubai or not.

I have appreciate your comments, that was the reason I posted here in the first place. It is a no win situation all round but I believe this thread will actually help others in the future.

Three different VS agents said to us that they never bothered reading 'small' print on anything before they worked in the reservation department. One young lady says she always checks her receipts concerning 'conditions of sale' and another agent said she checks & rechecks documents before she puts a signature to them. This is the point of my thread, focus on the acknowledgement we have stated it was our fault we didn't read the rules & regulations governing the ticket.

We had hoped that by talking it through with Virgin Atlantic then a solution could be reached. Yes I totally agree they did not have to offer us anything but it is still disappointing to actually take that on board.

Again thanks for taking the time to reply to my thread. I'll not waste any more of your time, its best to let this 'die' otherwise I could see it degenerating into more nasty remarks.
Just like rules & regulations - we all have opinions on rights & wrongs of certain situations. Bye