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#936836 by Professor Yaffle
25 Jul 2017, 13:16
This dates back to late June - reason for the delay in posting was to give Virgin enough time to resolve my complaint, and for my insurance claim to clear. Apologies for the length, but there is a lot to cover...

My wife and I booked on VS44 (LAS-LGW) on 23/6 in Upper on reward tickets. We have been doing this route for 15 years without issue. We boarded VROY without incident and pushed back on time at 3.30. The plane was extremely hot (combination of 45 degree outside temp and a problem with the power supply from gate to plane, apparently). We pulled off of the taxi way just prior to take off, and sat for 15 mins. Captain then came on and announced a tech issue which required engineers back at our gate. We taxied back to one of the D gates (no idea why), where we then sat for 75 mins. There was an interesting (and mildly concerning) sight of the Upper Class carpet being removed and an engineer climbing down into the nosewheel with a tool box!). The captain made various announcements, including 'issue resolved' (a TCAS problem apparently) and 'we are refuelling' (how much fuel did a short tax burn!) and 'struggling to reset the issue'. All this time the cabin was getting hotter still.

Anyway, we eventually pushed back again, only to stop short of take off again in the same spot. the Captain announced that the aircraft behind had spotted fuel 'pouring out of our wing'. Back to the gate we headed, this time with a full blue light escort. Cue mild panic in the cabin.

We had childcare issues at home, so had to leave that night. It looked pretty clear that this flight was going nowhere, and I knew there were limited alternatives - we were too late to get to LA for the late VS flight, but there was a direct BA service at 9.30 with space in all cabins. We explained our position to the crew, and as soon as we were back at our gate (E2 this time in T3, our original gate), my wife insisted on deplaning (we decided to split up to maximise our chances of making it home on time). As an Upper passenger, I would have fully expected the ground crew to work with my wife to rebook her onto BA's service as the only viable alternative. However the ground crew refused to help, saying 'we are not here for you'. She was therefore on her own, and therefore had to purchase a ticket herself on the BA service ($3,200, one way, in economy :-O :-O :-O - at least they gave her an exit seat for free). This justified us splitting up, as we were unsure we would recover all this cost.

It was 7.00pm by this stage, and this issue was clearly going to take time to resolve. It was here I beleive the Captain made his biggest mistake. Given the cabin temps (I estimate 40 degrees and rising, and likely much worse in Y), it would have been sensible to get everyone off into the terminal to cool down. However he insisted everyone stay put, and posted the CSM at the open door. He announced, rather aggressively, that under US Gate Delay regs, you can get off if you want, but if you do so, you are on your own - you cant get back on, VS wont rebook you or look after you and you are cancelling your ticket without refund or compensation. This attitude was not acceptable in the circumstances, it was legally questionable (the delay was already over 3hrs, so EU261 was in play) and also patently not true - my wife was by this time back in the departure terminal talking to ground staff, and witnessed at least three families get off, refusing to fly on the plane given what they had witnessed, and they were all immediately given a hotel for the night and rebooked on VS44 the next day. She also witnessed at least one person taken off the plane by medical services with heat exhaustion. In my view, the Captain's actions here were misjudged and borderline negligent.

Meanwhile, those of us left on board were sat for 2 hours with little water and no proper food (even in upper), with a cabin getting hotter by the minute. We got little to no information from the Captain, though the crew had numerous 'conference calls' which I had not seen before. Eventually, at gone 9pm, we were told that the issue had been fuel venting from the wings due to heat, apparently perfectly normal and resolved by rebalancing the tanks. We then pushed back again.

Part way through the taxi we did an abrupt u-turn, and it was clear there was a further problem. However the Captain said nothing for a full 40 minutes, even to the crew - unbeleivable in the circumstances. However I was in contact with my wife in the terminal, who was with the ground crew still. They knew from the captain after 5 minutes that we were returing to gate and to prep hotels for everyone as the service was canx, but this was not communicated to anyone on board for 35 minutes! Eventually we were told the service was being canx as 'three of the crew had collapsed in the heat and were on oxygen', so the flight did not have a legal level of flight crew. The remaining crew were visbly upset and shaken by the whole incident.

My wife managed to get me a room at the Wynn, and have me re-booked on the next day's VS44 before I even got off the plane, so I managed to avoid the ensuing chaos in the terminal. When we deplaned, it was left to three of the ground crew to make announcements to 350+ people and then allocate hotels, instructions etc. The Captain chose not to address passengers nor get off the plane, which again I found to be a really poor decision, leaving the ground crew (already on serious overtime) to take some serious anger from people. I collected bags and was in my hotel by 11pm, having seen my wife off on BA (she made it home OK!) - god knows what time people at the back of the scrum got to bed...

Next day, I turn up to check in. Schedules showed the delayed flight VS44A was due to go at 1.30, with the normal VS44 due at 3.30. However I discovered with horror that VROY was still tech ('they have been working on her all day' said the ground supervisor), so they had decided to have todays incoming plane (VROM) operate the VS44A, and delay todays VS44 :-O . I therefore had a choice - wait for a further delay on a plane I didnt trust, or fly home earlier with a Captain I didnt trust either. I chose the latter, and persuaded the ground supervisor to rebook me again on the VS44A. This left at 4pm and we got home without further incident. The VS44 (VROY) eventually left that night, 4.5 hours late.

CONCLUSIONS
- in our view, the Captain was not in control of the situation. His decisions were not those of a person thinking clearly and level-headedly, but of someone panicking and not in control. He put passengers and crews health in danger, and his lack of communication throughout was totally unacceptable. The aggression from the CSM was also excessive, though he was probably under pressure from the Captain.
- the remaining crew were outstanding, and performed valiantly in extremely testing circumstances.
- the refusal of ground crew to assist my wife was surprising and not acceptable for an Upper Class passenger.
- I have good reason not to beleive the explanation of the eventual cancellation (crew health) - none of the other crew knew of the issue, and the fact that the aircraft was still tech the next afternoon suggests we were not being told the whole truth.
- Given other recent cancellations and issues with the 747s, it is pretty clear that these are a liability to Virgin, and that the A350s cant come soon enough. I would be vary wary of booking these again, despite a 20 year history of favouring VS.

SERVICE RECOVERY
- Virgin's actions for those of us that remained on board were excellent - my EU261 was paid without question within a week, along with hotel, meals, taxis and subsistence. We also got 25,000 miles as compensation.
- However their treatment of my wife was shockingly poor - they have refused to reimburse any of the cost of her new flight, beyond refunding the taxes and miles on her ticket (a very low number!). They even refused to acknowledge the fact that her rebooking herself had saved them several hundred pounds in overnight costs etc. On top of this, they even refused her EU261 claim, though this was eventually reversed upon threat of legal action, and paid within a month.
- On the plus side, Virgin were quick to respond to all correspondance to their Executive Office (thanks to those on here who sent me these details).
- We did recover all of these costs through travel insurance, so are not out of pocket, but clearly this will impact our insurance history and renewal cost.
#936840 by mdhayes
25 Jul 2017, 14:26
sounds like an absolute nightmare, I am surprised more passengers weren't treated for heat exhaustion. Glad you made it home safe and recovered your costs. What is the legal status if you rebook yourself on a different flight?
#936844 by Sealink
25 Jul 2017, 15:57
What a horrific experience.
I think there is something in US law about leaving the plane, but that could have been explained.
#936846 by slinky09
25 Jul 2017, 17:24
What a dreadful situation! Some thoughts:

- Planes go tech all over the world, seems like you have a succession of issues that were unforeseen but a rare combination all the same leading to cancellation.
- Do you really not trust the Captain's ability to fly based on some unfortunate communication - and consider that their workload was probably high while trying to resolve things, they almost certainly weren't sitting waiting for something to happen?
- Your wife voluntarily disembarked before the flight was cancelled, why should then VS ground staff provide rebooking or anything else? Indeed for anyone until a decision was taken to cancel the flight?
- If you have good reason to suspect the final reason for the cancellation was a lie, please share?

I have no reason to disbelieve anything you say, it sounds awful for all and VS has a long history of not coping well when things go wrong.

And lastly, and most importantly, how the heck did you get two G's to LAS in JULY????????
#936848 by SlimpyJones
25 Jul 2017, 18:19
ken54 wrote:Airlines understand when you walk and don't book them anymore, so do just that


I think you would quickly run out of airlines if you dumped them based on tech issues ;-)
#936849 by vscss
25 Jul 2017, 19:04
Let me try to explain this from an insider side of things.

All UK airlines are bound by the US DFT tarmac delay regulations, the FSM is required to read a statement every 30 mins to passengers. This has to be announced exactly as written by the DFT for obvious legal reasons....So for what reasons do you give that the FSM was aggressive with this information or the way he was required by law to read this out? This is unfortunately the way the US authorities handle a tarmac delay and we have to abide by it legally.

To let pax off the plane and back on again can potentially take too long causing crew hours issues, this decision is made by the operations control in the UK & not the captain or crew.

The crew are only requited to provide water every hour of a tarmac delay and a light snack e.g pretzels/crisps over 2 hours delay.

Sounds like the crew were under great pressure and were also in an uncomfortable situation.
#936852 by ken54
25 Jul 2017, 20:28
I am not talking about dumping an airline because of tech issues , its about how passengers are treated when this happens, and in this case very bad >-(
#936865 by Professor Yaffle
26 Jul 2017, 09:25
slinky09 wrote:- If you have good reason to suspect the final reason for the cancellation was a lie, please share?

And lastly, and most importantly, how the heck did you get two G's to LAS in JULY????????


Happy to elaborate - lie is too strong a word, lets just say I was less than convinced. Reasons:
- ground crew were told of the canx 35 minutes before any of the crew or pax, and none of the crew at the front of the plane were aware of any health issues with the crew.
- the plane was clearly still tech the day after - the ground supervisor confirmed they had been 'working on her all day', hence the reason for the last minute plane switch the next day and the resulting 5 hour delay to the next flight.
- the Captain's refusal to leave the cockpit and talk to passengers, leaving the poor ground crew to cope.

As for the Gs, we got one G and 1 PE reward at T-355, and the second one popped up 5 days prior. Not only that, but we were also able to upgrade our two outbound PE rewards to Gs in the final week as well. Our best result in 15+ years of doing this route.
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