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#934265 by ColOrd
10 Apr 2017, 16:13
I stumbled up on the Promo video on YouTube from Farnbrough, and it got me thinking about what we are all looking for out of the new metal coming VS way, as the topic seems to have gone quiet, thought it might be worth starting some debate:

* WiFi - a must as standard these days.
* At seat power for every seat.
* Entertainment delivered through your own device rather than traditional seatback TV's? A lot of airlines seem to be going down this road?
* 3-3-3 Seating in Economy. I saw some videos recently of Air Caribes 350's which they have gone with a 3-4-3 layout on their 350's and it looks pretty horrific if you're flying down the back!
*A 1-1-1 config in Upper, with the retention of the bar, but would love to see something special added here, maybe some sofa seating like in the Emirates/Qatar bars?
#934270 by tontybear
10 Apr 2017, 18:07
there is a flaw with "IFE via your own device" and it's more than not everyone has a smart phone or forgets their cables

It's what happens when ipads and tablets get banned from the cabin.
#934302 by Fuzzy14
11 Apr 2017, 09:50
I've already posted that I think bring your own device is the future, I think the risk of these in the cabin is far less than having a un-monitored baggage hold full of 500 Li-ion batteries.

I'd like
USB power at every seat
Inflight wifi with access to film library
Reasonable rates to connect to the internet (like, Emirates are $1 for 500MB)
A walk up bar/wander wall for economy
Cameras, take off cameras, tail cameras, love them!
The A350 is only 200mm narrower than the 777 so I expect 3-4-3 in economy

And here's my most outlandish suggestion. Remember the days where you all had to watch the same film at the same time on the small TVs? I miss the cinema feeling that gave, everybody laughed at the same time, you could chat to your partner about it, it gave a sense of occasion. With advancements in larger LCD TVs and projectors I would (in addition to BYOD) like a cinema feature.
#934303 by LucyLu
11 Apr 2017, 09:53
Personally I dislike a 3-3-3 layout in economy as when travelling as a couple you've always got the one odd seat. I much prefer the 2-4-2 layout you get on some planes.
#934305 by SlimpyJones
11 Apr 2017, 10:26
I suspect VS will be paying careful attention to how other carriers will be fitting their Economy/Main cabins on A350s over the next couple of years. I'd like to think that they will opt for 3-3-3 but the way the industry is looking a high density 3-4-3 may be the only way to be profitable. Who knows.

Remember that there will be two configurations of the A350s, one to accommodate for the leisure routes, and another for LHR business-focussd routes.

I would imagine a bar, 1-1-1 in UC and PE Wonder Wall can be expected given the way the A330s and B789s are being fitted.
#934316 by CommanderB
11 Apr 2017, 17:31
I'm hoping for a proper, new generation UC.. maybe to compete with the more up to date products out there.
#934333 by ColOrd
12 Apr 2017, 08:56
I do wonder if they will end up going to a Reverse Herringbone layout like Virgin Austrailia seem to have made a good job of!
#934348 by Edinburgh Castle
12 Apr 2017, 16:08
I too think the UC seat and its configuration needs to be changed soon - it's run its day

A reverse herringbone may be good so long as things are not dropped on your head from passing traffic or careless openings of bins but more importantly a non flip-over seat, one that is self adjusting in multiple positions .

my other carrier is usually Emirates in Business and occasionally first class - the latter is an excellent seat and comfortable too. I just think the Virgin seat was great but given the technological advances in seating and comfort, something more distinctive is now required?
#934349 by matt.hibb
12 Apr 2017, 17:53
I quite like the UC seat.

I used to fly Air Canada often in their herringbone 'pod'. AC's seat didn't flip over so it could be adjusted a lot more than the VS seat, virtually any position between upright and laid down. So it was a much better seat, but the flip side (pun intended) was that it wasn't as good bed, it was just never flat enough and too hard. The VS seat makes a much better bed.

Flew Cathay recently too in their reverse herringbone and this was overall better than both VS and AC. Better privacy, better in seat mode than both, better as a bed than AC. But I still think VS has the edge in bed mode and for me thats the most important bit.

I don't think I really crave for much to be honest. Any gripes are minor and are service oriented and they won't be fixed with a new aircraft. I just hope the bar stays! Having somewhere to go other than your seat to sit or stand for a while sets VS apart, especially in J going west.
#939221 by ColOrd
22 Oct 2017, 12:44
https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/delt ... -a350.html

Sorry for a link to the site that must not be named, but there is a good selection of articles now about Delta's 359's which start later this month including a look at the cabin interiors.

Given the relationship with DL and now AF and KLM, its interesting to see what DL have done compared to where VS are going to go with the slightly bigger 350-1000.

I'm not sure what I make of the J class DL seat, the privacy element looks great, but the aisles look very narrow.

Also note that PE is only 2-4-2, interesting to see if VS replicate this! Is the cabin really that wide or will we see PE seats shaved down?
#939222 by PaulS
22 Oct 2017, 13:38
Given that none of VS major shareholders have bars in the business cabins, how long will it be before the bean counters insist on that space being used for revenue. The A380 is far bigger and lends itself to having a bar, but when all the competitors are carrying four or more passengers each flight I think the bar may be in danger.
#939223 by SlimpyJones
22 Oct 2017, 14:17
PaulS wrote:Given that none of VS major shareholders have bars in the business cabins, how long will it be before the bean counters insist on that space being used for revenue. The A380 is far bigger and lends itself to having a bar, but when all the competitors are carrying four or more passengers each flight I think the bar may be in danger.


To be fair a similar conversation was had on this forum about the A330's potentially having their bars removed as part of the refits because of the "bean counters". Some folks here got themselves into such a state about it but it never happened. The new B789s are still arriving with bars so I can't see such a USP of Virgin's J class being removed.

As far as DL's PE going, yes I had wondered whether VS would follow suit with this as well. I'd like to think they wouldn't to maintain the 21" consistency across the fleet. DL's widths are only 18.5".

I think it's fair to say though that we will not be seeing 3-4-3 in Economy as I believe every carrier bar one (Air Caraïbes) has adopted the recommended 3-3-3 layout.
#939224 by SlimpyJones
22 Oct 2017, 14:22
Just to add as well that on a recent flight the FSM mentioned to me that a new UC was in testing. I didn't press him for info though so I've no idea if it will be "evolution" or "revolution"...!
#939225 by eugegall
22 Oct 2017, 15:33
Does it actually take up room to fit a Delta style suite over the standard Virgin Upper?

If not, personally I see all upper class/business cabins to follow suit.
#939232 by PaulS
22 Oct 2017, 20:32
SlimpyJones wrote:
PaulS wrote:Given that none of VS major shareholders have bars in the business cabins, how long will it be before the bean counters insist on that space being used for revenue. The A380 is far bigger and lends itself to having a bar, but when all the competitors are carrying four or more passengers each flight I think the bar may be in danger.


To be fair a similar conversation was had on this forum about the A330's potentially having their bars removed as part of the refits because of the "bean counters". Some folks here got themselves into such a state about it but it never happened. The new B789s are still arriving with bars so I can't see such a USP of Virgin's J class being removed.


When the A330 were ordered VS was 100% SRB. With the shareholding down to 20% and VS profits falling I’m sure they are looking at it. As you say the bar going west is a USP and whether they have the nerve to remove it is another thing. But with BA now offering 86/97 CW seats on a lot of the competing routes they can be keener on pricing so I’m sure the VS revenue people will want every seat available to compete.
#939238 by ColOrd
23 Oct 2017, 07:50
But contrastingly they did take out two UC seats on the 330s for the refurb and managed to keep the bar.
#939240 by SlimpyJones
23 Oct 2017, 08:06
ColOrd wrote:But contrastingly they did take out two UC seats on the 330s for the refurb and managed to keep the bar.


Indeed, that's pretty much the point I was making! If the infamous bean counters were to pounce on an opportunity to squeeze in more seats then it would have been that one. Same with the Clubhouse, I'm sure they could have stripped out the spa, the barbers, the showers, the pool table to squeeze in more seats but they didn't.

And without meaning to be a pedant, the AF/KLM purchase is not yet done so the 51/49% split remains. I imagine VS will already have seat plans laid out so any potential negative "influence" from AF/KLM would not come into play.

Until VS start running crusty old 747s with eight across in business class like BA then I agree they will not be able to always compete on price on competing routes.
#939243 by CommanderB
23 Oct 2017, 09:19
I'd like to think that DL think of VS as their boutique brand. Just like big hotels have started to buy smaller chains and keep the magic going.

Between VS and DL, customers have a lot of choice when it comes to product. I think the bar will stay, and I suspect the UC suite will get a look in future too, as to how close to DL's seat it becomes, remains to be seen.
#939259 by mitchja
23 Oct 2017, 21:41
Arn’t the first VS A350’s going to be in the high Y leisure config to replace the 744’s so will likely be on the MCO or other ex-LGW route I would have thought?
#939261 by CommanderB
24 Oct 2017, 09:20
mitchja wrote:Arn’t the first VS A350’s going to be in the high Y leisure config to replace the 744’s so will likely be on the MCO or other ex-LGW route I would have thought?


That is what was said during the press conference. There was also mention of them replacing the A340's, so I would hazard a guess, 744's first, then the last orders replacing the 340's.
#939262 by Smid
24 Oct 2017, 10:35
I really don't understand anyone actually wanting bring your own device IFE. The obsession of the phone seems to muddy a lot of peoples thoughts on practicalities...

I've got no wish to watch ten hour of movies on a 6 inch phone, maybe even with a cracked screen, or take a tablet of reasonable size with me to see the films, with all the wiring and the charging involved. Then making sure I've got a case which makes it stand up, so I don't have 10 hours of holding it, or dropping it on the floor as I fall asleep.

I can see the low budgets with pretensions, such as norwegian or southwest wanting it as a budget saving measure, but someone actively wanting this over a decent 10-12 inch foldaway screens with a decent pause/rewind interface. Anyone who's used some of the tablet video players will know about losing position within the film, or inaccuracy of rewind and other such annoyances depending on app...

And then there's visiting one of the Middle East airports with a tablet ban.
#939264 by CommanderB
24 Oct 2017, 11:34
Smid wrote:I really don't understand anyone actually wanting bring your own device IFE. The obsession of the phone seems to muddy a lot of peoples thoughts on practicalities...

I've got no wish to watch ten hour of movies on a 6 inch phone, maybe even with a cracked screen, or take a tablet of reasonable size with me to see the films, with all the wiring and the charging involved. Then making sure I've got a case which makes it stand up, so I don't have 10 hours of holding it, or dropping it on the floor as I fall asleep.

I can see the low budgets with pretensions, such as norwegian or southwest wanting it as a budget saving measure, but someone actively wanting this over a decent 10-12 inch foldaway screens with a decent pause/rewind interface. Anyone who's used some of the tablet video players will know about losing position within the film, or inaccuracy of rewind and other such annoyances depending on app...

And then there's visiting one of the Middle East airports with a tablet ban.


What about those of us who have seen all the films & TV shows on the IFE that we want to watch..? What then? As much as I love reading, I can't read for 12 hours straight. It may not suit everyone, but I believe there is a use case.

Not to mention, from a technology point of view, a lot of these systems come with this functionality as standard, so the airlines may as well let people use it.
#939265 by David
24 Oct 2017, 11:51
Is the technology available to allow 350 - 450 passengers to stream HD in the middle of the atlantic available yet or would everything you wanted to watch have to be preloaded onto your tablet ?
#939267 by mitchja
24 Oct 2017, 13:35
David wrote:Is the technology available to allow 350 - 450 passengers to stream HD in the middle of the atlantic available yet or would everything you wanted to watch have to be preloaded onto your tablet ?


Yes, it's already in use, however, it doesn't stream from an external source though. All the hardware and media are on the aircraft IFE server.

You don't need an internet connection for it to work. Just a WiFi connection on your device.

Delta use the GoGo streaming system where you download the GoGo Entertainment app (or you can stream via a web browser too I believe).

It's a similar system to the Virgin Trains on-board Beam system as well (though that does only work via an app which you need to get before you board the train).
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