Consistency = quality

Just returned from New York - what was a 36 hour business trip. Booked on VS17 outbound and VS4 Return. This may go on - so read at your peril!

I'm a frequent Virgin and J/C Class traveller - and can only say these two flights summed up my issue with Virgin. Firstly, before anyone gets ready to slap me down - I love flying those planes, I think the Virgin service can be the very best in the business. But the 'can be' bit is my issue.

My outbound flight, VS17 was on an Airbus 300. The seat worked fine, I have a bulkhead row and everything felt 'ok'. Then the service bgan - or didn't. Over 1 hour after take off until drinks were offered, a very rapid meal service, when I approached the galley to ask for some water, I was sent straight back to my seat (and told to wait).

Later on in the flight was when the service really started to dissapoint. Late flight, no water given out (little bottles), and no drinks runs at all. The assumption that everyone will be asleep or not want to be bothered was apparent. The noise of the crew kicking back in the galley could be heard over my earphones.

Now, I know this may be crabby, but I've always believed quality travel was about your needs being anticipated. This didn't happen at all.

I raised it with the purser, on descent (as they scrambled to get my DF as they had forgotten), and she was quite abrupt. It's very hard to complain all the time you are receiving bad service - it's not like sending back an omlette.

So, things to do there.

However,

VS4 returning JFK to LHR on Friday night. After attempts to brbie me off this over booked flight, I got to the clubhouse and had one of my best meals - the stripsteak (no mash). Boarding at 6.30 and we pushed back a couple of minutes early.

My seat, 15k (see the seat reviews) was brilliant, almost totally private and close to the galley. I was served by Claire, who anticipated everything, from when I would want more water to letting my change early into my pajamas. She saw me wake and brought me coffee and water. I swear, I sound like I'm falling in love here. The food was hot, and well presented, the drink freeflowing and a constant warm smile from the crew. Never mind that my seat didn't flip properly, because it was all dealt with with a smile. So much so that I requested a RAVE form for Claire, which made her day.

This suite is cleary reinvigorating staff and the carrier's brand, it's just such a shame that you can have such different 'brand experiences' within such a short time.

Anyway - I'm off on a break to NY on the 31st - it'll take more than one dodgy flight to put me off this airline.

Thanks, you saved me posting a long one!

Couldn't agree more.....


VS19 out (Suite)..... crew - young, uninterested and immature


VS20 back (5 hrs late & Suite)...... crew - young, eager to please and attentive

It still amazes me the variation in quality of Virgin crew...

[Pete]

I too have had a couple of bum flights with Virgin, although for every bad one there's been at least 10 great ones.

Complaining doesn't come easy to the British, I know, but it's worth remembering that they keep forms on board if you want to record your comments.

Pix

I wouldn't want to fill a form out on board with regards to the service (as opposed to, say, bad food/seating) - as this can be read and may affect my level of service throughout the rest of the journey.

This is why I asked for the pursers name on board and had a difficult conversation with her, as we were rapidly descending into Newark. Hence I have drafted a letter to send today.

I have had a few bad ones also,but I think the standards seem to be on the up lately hope the new seats will bring in new levels of service the few comments I have seen seem to indicate this regarding the suites.

Chris Parr

I have also had some poor service standards on Virgin, J- W and Y classes, but its pointless complaining to customer serivces or onboard to the Purser/IFS as NO CREW CAN DO ANY WRONG.
You get the usual patronising attitude, Oh Iam so Sorry Sir He/She did not intend to be blantly RUDE...........................

OH YES THEY BLOODY WELL DID.They can be arrogant little ****s who need a reality check, just because they fly, does not mean they are better or sophistcated than there travelling passengers!

There are Many stories I could tell of Disgraceful Crew behaviour in hotels around the world and onboard.And lets not even mention the onboard FIRE starter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or would you like a BOMB with that Sir.
Or NO the Crew hotel room dint have ANY fittings or Fixtures.

Two many Crew are full of the Virgin Hype! WERE SO GREAT,WERE THE BEST
IN THE INDUSTRY, well they bloody well are NOT.(THEY USED TO BE).

Even Richard Branson has noticed the Crews are not the old style Party hard and Fun loving Guys and Gurls of the old Virgin days.
That Company has Gone and were left with the mixed, Good and Bad flight.

[RichardMannion]

Seat1aupper,

Please see my reply to your post in the 'Ask a Guru' section.

Thanks,
Richard

this is getting me worried

my only flight with virgin so far , economy , was really terrible out but good return lgw-mco

this was in 2000 but now i have just booked another in uc this time and was hoping all the hassles were over but this looks like they are not

fingers crossed i get a good one

steve

steve w hickling

[Pete]

Steve,

I've been flying regularly with Virgin for over 10 years, and I could count the number of times one of their staff has not delivered the very best in customer service on one hand. Even then, they are a company that go out of their way to put things right when a problem is brought to their attention.

As you've got an Upper Class ticket, I think you can safely assume your flight is going to be even better than your 'good' flight in Economy in 2000. VS are my airline of choice because of their service levels, not in spite of it

Pix

[Bazz]

Steve,

I have been flying with VS since they started the LHR-LAX route and can only remember one occasion when the attitude of the crew and consequently the service they provided were sub-standard (not on that route as it happens). You know everyone has off days and sometimes it affects your work, as professionals we know it shouldn't, but in reality it can and does.

On balance when compared to other airlines offerings, VS is still up there with the best. They will continue to have my business.

Bazz
Still Flying

I think Virgin still stand above their competition with their UC product. In some ways it is not better, but different, Branson identified a stale market and came at it with a fresh approach, just different enough, whilst also meeting the basic needs.

I think I have noticed a slight downturn in attitude on board over the last couple of years, perhaps it has become mundane to the crew. But good experiences still significantly outweigh bad, and everytime I fly with someone else I miss the Virgin experience.

Interestingly I now find the check-in and lounge staff in the US the most likely to really show the Virgin brand in action.

Vslf

[mitchja]

quote:Originally posted by Vslf

Interestingly I now find the check-in and lounge staff in the US the most likely to really show the Virgin brand in action.

Vslf

Yes I'd agree with that.....LGW Virgin check-in staff could learn a thing or two from them.

James Mitchell

Silver Flying Club member since 2000

[Bazz]

I certainly found the Clubhouse staff at SFO to be absolutely First Class when we visited last year. They gave us a tour of the facilities and fed and watered (Champagned) us really well!

Bazz
Still Flying

Have to agree US lounge staff at both IAD and SFO seem a lot more eager to please than LHR bar/food staff(not touch)but any how you get served pronto if you walk to the bar and smile.

Chris Parr

[RichardMannion]

quote:

Yes I'd agree with that.....LGW Virgin check-in staff could learn a thing or two from them.

James Mitchell

Silver Flying Club member since 2000

Thats the irony - LGW 'Virgin' Staff are not actual Virgin staff - the LGW operation is outsourced to Aviance.

Thanks,
Richard

[mitchja]

I did wonder if this was the case, I know Manchester is the same - but check-in staff are the very front line of any airline as it's there you get the first impression.

James Mitchell

Silver Flying Club member since 2000

the one thing that made me change the vow i made never to fly virgin again after the horendous treatment i got outbound in 2000 was the treatment i have had from the "special needs help team in the uk."

as my daughter is in a wheel chair all the time and has very specific medical needs on the flight, (she was not with me when i travelled in 2000) it has been a very complicated process to sort the whole holiday out.
we are doing the whole holiday through virgin , not just the flight, and i can tell you i have not made it easy for them ,wanting to make sure every eventuallity is covered. But every time i said "what if" within 2 days the answer was there for me and most times the answer to my next question that i had not even asked yet!!!

i could not have been treated any better if i had been richards mum!!!
after reading tips on seat preferences from you guys i asked today about when could i pre book my seats only to be told that it had already been done.
i got worried then that i might have been put in one that was not the best so i checked and was told that because of our special needs they had allocated 3 seats in row 6. when i said that i understood that you could not pre book these she said that i couldnt but she could !!!!

also after tips from banking scot i e mailed v touch at lgw and had a reply within hours and it was most helpful.

so far my virgin experience has been wonderfull . the reason we chose uc this time is because of our special needs and so far i am sure it is well worth the extra.





steve w hickling

[Bazz]

Thanks for sharing that with us Steve. I'm sure it will offer encouragement to other Pax with special needs. I'm equally sure you and your family will enjoy the experience and be well cared for during the flight.

Bazz
Still Flying

I've just come back from New York, having flown Virgin for the very first time (traditionally a BA user because I use Air Miles) and agree that the service was inconsistent.

Going out on VS1 last Wednesday, the flight couldn't have been better. Having checked out the reviews of the seats and likely aircraft beforehand, I knew I was likely to be on a 747-400 which I have found in the past to be a bit cramped (being of a slightly broader nature than average). I did my normal trick of asking at the gate whether they needed anyone for the mid emergency egress, but instead, they offered me a seat in row 40 behind the galley bulkhead which was empty unstanding that I was looking for a little room. On board, I found the service was excellent, not too rushed and with enough personal attention that you knew you were being looked after without being hassled. I appreciate that the flight was only half full (despite being consolidated with a Continental flight) so staff have a bit more time, but it was well appreciated.

Coming back out of Newark on Sunday on VS2, I checked in two hours before take-off, asked for row 40 if I could, but was told they couldn't allocate it, had to ask at the gate. Allocated to seat 36J. Went immediately to the gate and asked but told flight was full so couldn't change it. Hadn't realised until I got on board that the seat was the middle of a bank of three. If I had known, would have had an aisle seat so that I could at least escape frequently and walk around. At least I had a book to read so wasn't a great disaster until I found that the reading light wasn't working. The remote for the entertainment had a fault on it, so only worked intermittently. The staff on board were basically, I sorry, there's nothing I can do about it mode. Service was very rushed throughout the flight to the extent that you felt uneasy about asking for anything. The only good thing that could be said for the flight back was that it was only 6 hours 15 mins and we were quick getting back onto the stand at Heathrow thanks to using 9L rather than 27L

Hi there. I agree you didnt have the perfect Virgin experience but I would be interested to know how you compare it with BA. Im sure many of us have been on flights with a broken IFE system (me included) and first thing to remember is that short of rebooting the system there isnt alot the crew can do in the air. They may be able to move you if there is space, but in my case they offered me some duty free.
Also on evening eastbound flights from the US you will notice a 'speedier' service than normal, to allow people to eat and then sleep before arriving in London early morning. BA does this also.

Hope you fly Virgin again

[buns]

I too have experienced wide variations in service (silver member since 1996).

A frequent user of the B&S route to MCO, it has been my expereince that the return flight can be less "service orientated" and this is most probbaly due to crew lay over being less than 24 hours. If many of us had to turn round that quickly I am sure we would be tired as well.

On balance, VS continues to beat the competition class for class - I am off once again at the end of the month and I am looking forward to the flights (both ways!!)

Hi All this might go on!

I would like to offer my tuppence, but please don't read this as a "My Gold Card is Better than yours" But I am a regular Virgin customer and, as most of my friends and collegues would testify, one of the Virgin Brands number one fans, Both Cars, Wife's Wedding Dress, All Flights, Travelstore, Holidays, Credit Card, Wine, Gym etc etc you know the score.

BUT i can empathise with Johnathan S, and share his views on occaions.

I am also a Brand Consultant working for an international brand, so would like to offer a different perspective.

I feel that on most occasions we critise Virgin it is a Brand perception issue not a service delivery issue.

The problem with the Virgin Brand is simple, it has rewritten customers accepted levels of service, value and quality in each of its business, and because of this with, such an aspirational brand you always expect more.

Induldge me with a personal experinece, especially as I should know better, but it is an easy trap to fall into. I fly to the US a minimium of twice per month, and usually out in PE return in UC. Early last year, I started to recieve regular upgrades of the PE sector, and I mean just about every flight, then one day I checked in and was amazed not to hear the magical words, then not at the lounge, and then not even at the gate..... but to make it even worse I got on and someone was in my seat, great I thought with a wry smile, did the usual and the woman in the seat was told she had been upgraded..... but I could see she only had a silver card, I sat in my warm seat and silently started all my "is my business worth nothing etc etc" But hang on I had only paid for PE so that is all I should have expected - but on so many previous occasions my expectations had been exceed and had actualy been taken for granted.

The other point is that the complaints are all being aimed in the in the last couple of years, and these have probably been th emost turbulant times in the industry, and with Job insecurity worries, and new recuits taking so long to come through because of the additional secuity checks, I have not experienced a fully crewed flight in probably a year, it could be argued that the Virgin Team has actually been amazing to keep it's team so motivated and focused to deliver such standards under the pressures.

Finally, I have had bad flights with Virgin, but even the very worst is better than the average I have experienced on the competitors. This must say something.

On balance I think that Virgin deliver the best standards in the sky most consistently, but they do have issues, as I am sure we all have in our business, but (revieing the posts) most people on this board tend to fly nearer the front, which is often leads to the highest expectation of ever, and probably never have the time or inclination to feed back the issues, if you do I know you do get lisened to, and that constructive feed back is passed back to the Service Delivery Team and acted on, so it is worth taking the time.

Cheers

*looks for a 'clap' smiley*

Hi,

I must concur with the "average service" observation. As a regular non-virgin traveller (Delta Medallion member), I must say that even the worst Virgin trip bests the US airlines. I am looking forward to my first UC trip ,since I have flown all other US carriers (also including BA), and will report back.

Still, consistency is I imagine quite difficult for such a complex company as an airline.

My 2 cents.

TS

[Nottingham Nick]

Bluefish

Welcome to Virginflyer.

Great post, can I just echo your sentiments, VS don't always get it right. But when it is wrong or goes wrong they usually do their best to fix it.

Nick