This is the main V-Flyer Forum for general discussion of everything related to flying with Virgin-branded travel companies.
#928348 by property1925
05 Nov 2016, 16:42
I'm in full agreement with the many helpful and moderate comments.

Still, though, could VS just answer the outstanding questions? That's not too much to ask if you have people who would like to stay on VS metal (and all mine are paid in hard cash) but not at the price of a shot in the foot. If there is a "don't know" to some of the questions - we can cope!!!
#928352 by kanderson1965
05 Nov 2016, 23:27
Having decided that Walsh and Cruz over at the other lot are no longer worthy of my cash and if I stick with OW transatlantic, they will still get my cash, I have been looking at the VS/DL alliance for the 4 or 5 return flights to the US in business class I do for pleasure plus the odd flight in PE for work. With the impending changes to FC, which is the better bet, FC or Delta's Skymiles?
#928363 by vscxfan
06 Nov 2016, 15:58
For me, the one totally unjustifiable is the increase in redemption charges to the West Coast. 155,000 miles is a quite obscene uplift - I feel if they put it up to 120k everyone would have shrugged and moved on. 155k is ridiculous - this is not a first class product by any stretch.
[/quote]

However, for 140,000 (eg 95,000 for VS UC LHR-ATL-LHR + 45,000 for DL First ATL-LAX-ATL) you could build in a stopover, use lounges en route, earn more VFC Miles + TP than for VS UC LHR-LAX-LHR and "save" 15,000 toward your next trip!
#928365 by DoomWolf
06 Nov 2016, 16:31
However, for 140,000 (eg 95,000 for VS UC LHR-ATL-LHR + 45,000 for DL First ATL-LAX-ATL) you could build in a stopover, use lounges en route, earn more VFC Miles + TP than for VS UC LHR-LAX-LHR and "save" 15,000 toward your next trip![/quote]

You could even reduce that by 5,000 miles by flying Delta One (still with CH access) for the LHR-ATL-LHR leg at 90,000 FC miles.
#928366 by vscxfan
06 Nov 2016, 17:27
DoomWolf wrote:However, for 140,000 (eg 95,000 for VS UC LHR-ATL-LHR + 45,000 for DL First ATL-LAX-ATL) you could build in a stopover, use lounges en route, earn more VFC Miles + TP than for VS UC LHR-LAX-LHR and "save" 15,000 toward your next trip!


You could even reduce that by 5,000 miles by flying Delta One (still with CH access) for the LHR-ATL-LHR leg at 90,000 FC miles.[/quote]

True - but I think UC is worth the "extra" 5,000!
#928384 by Professor Yaffle
07 Nov 2016, 11:00
Dear Oli

By coming back on and reposting here, you have confirmed that you are reading and monitoring this thread.

To post a very limited response and ignore the vast majority of issues raised by posters, you simply prove that VS either dont care, or are well aware that this is a horrible deal for FC members and you dont have an excuse/explanation.

Either way, you look really bad right now...

Perhaps if you can find the time, you could offer a justification for the 55% uplift in West Coast G redemptions???
#928389 by gumshoe
07 Nov 2016, 11:24
To be fair to Mr Byers he didn't have to come on here at all so it is to his credit that he did take the time to explain the changes.

It is unreasonable to expect a senior executive to provide a running commentary or respond to every individual question and complaint on an open forum.

Yes it hurts that VS have decided to significantly increase the price of Gs to the west coast. But they don't have to justify that to us - if you're not happy, vote with your feet and fly with someone else. There's plenty of competition out there.
#928393 by tontybear
07 Nov 2016, 12:12
gumshoe wrote:To be fair to Mr Byers he didn't have to come on here at all so it is to his credit that he did take the time to explain the changes.

It is unreasonable to expect a senior executive to provide a running commentary or respond to every individual question and complaint on an open forum.

Yes it hurts that VS have decided to significantly increase the price of Gs to the west coast. But they don't have to justify that to us - if you're not happy, vote with your feet and fly with someone else. There's plenty of competition out there.


To a degree I agree but Oli came here and said he would answer questions. To be half hearted about it is not a good sign.

I don't think anyone is expecting him personally to monitor and respond but he has staff who could on his behalf.

By not responding he's hacking off some of VS greatest supporters. The questions we are asking will be the same staff in customer services are likely answering. He could have used our questions to provide better in house briefings to phone staff and put this info on the VS website.

No he doesn't have to give us a line by line justification of why the west coast rewards have gone up but there are many practical questions which he could answer without giving away any commercial secrets.
#928402 by Joshl257
07 Nov 2016, 16:12
For me it's a mixed bag because I travel in economy to our second home in Tampa mainly though ATL. The changes for flying club silver and gold members is the sticking point for me. Under the current system I get 50% bonus miles on any flight flown even Delta domestic. But reducing that % for any flying club members is not rewarding. The fact is Virgin you are not part of any airline alliance so what little perks we get we like and therefore want to keep. I mean who in their right mind would pay 155.000 mies to fly to SFO from MAN in Upper Class when you don't even have a Clubhouse at Manchester. If you ask me you should concentrate on that last point and do something about it rather than trying to lose your loyal customer base. Because no amount of marketing and P.R will hide the fact you are taking things away.
#928407 by Silver Fox
07 Nov 2016, 18:36
travelmad51 wrote:Am I right in thinking that you can still book rewards at the old redemption rate until 13th January 2017?


From the Ts and Cs:

Standard and peak season reward flights are available from 16 January 2017. The existing year round reward flights are still available until 15 January 2017.
#928413 by Hev60
07 Nov 2016, 21:04
travelmad51 wrote:Thanks Silverfox, I have a bit more time to bag my G's to SFO next year ;)


Don't hung around too long and also G's on the London to SFO are much harder to find.
May is looking reasonable but after that virtually zero availability.
#928419 by pjh
07 Nov 2016, 21:57
Silver Fox wrote:
travelmad51 wrote:Am I right in thinking that you can still book rewards at the old redemption rate until 13th January 2017?


From the Ts and Cs:

Standard and peak season reward flights are available from 16 January 2017. The existing year round reward flights are still available until 15 January 2017.


I thought that meant the standard / peak season specific banding *started* from 16th January 2017. So from 13th November 2016 (the start date of the new enhanced FC) if you book a flight for on or after the 16th January you will be subject to the new bandings. My reading (which may be wrong, and delighted if I am) is;

1. Book before 13th November and get the old redemption rates on any flight you can find availability in the next 300 and something days
2. Book on or after 13th November for a flight to be taken before the 16th January and get the old redemption rates
3. Book on or after 13th November for a flight to be taken on or after the 16th January and be subject to the new season specific rates

(In the presentation that Silverfox alluded to these will have been termed "use cases")
#928422 by stuart_f
07 Nov 2016, 23:28
Joshl257 wrote:The changes for flying club silver and gold members is the sticking point for me. Under the current system I get 50% bonus miles on any flight flown even Delta domestic. But reducing that % for any flying club members is not rewarding.


This is one of the most badly explained bits of the change.

The current 100% Gold bonus applies only to the base miles and not the cabin bonus. The new 60% bonus applies to BOTH the base miles and the cabin bonus. If you fly mostly premium cabins for cash this is a win, if you fly mostly economy for cash this is a loss.

Similar story for silver, the new 30% bonus applies to BOTH base miles and cabin bonus replacing the 50% bonus on base miles only.

The change is in-keeping with the other changes - Virgin want to reward people who book the more expensive, flexible, premium cabins. If that isn't you, Virgin Flying Club is no longer the place to credit your flights.
#928436 by Silver Fox
08 Nov 2016, 12:11
pjh wrote:
Silver Fox wrote:
travelmad51 wrote:Am I right in thinking that you can still book rewards at the old redemption rate until 13th January 2017?


From the Ts and Cs:

Standard and peak season reward flights are available from 16 January 2017. The existing year round reward flights are still available until 15 January 2017.


I thought that meant the standard / peak season specific banding *started* from 16th January 2017. So from 13th November 2016 (the start date of the new enhanced FC) if you book a flight for on or after the 16th January you will be subject to the new bandings. My reading (which may be wrong, and delighted if I am) is;

1. Book before 13th November and get the old redemption rates on any flight you can find availability in the next 300 and something days
2. Book on or after 13th November for a flight to be taken before the 16th January and get the old redemption rates
3. Book on or after 13th November for a flight to be taken on or after the 16th January and be subject to the new season specific rates

(In the presentation that Silverfox alluded to these will have been termed "use cases")


And I think we are right to be confused for sure. In http://discoverflyingclub.virginatlantic.com/media/1126/flying-club-earning-spending-uk.pdf in the section titled "Spend your miles on reward seats" I was going by this too:
"For peak season reward flights, you will need 20,000 more Flying Club miles per round trip. The below reward flights are bookable from 16 January 2017. Our year round reward flights can still be booked until 15 January 2017."

But it is proper confusing wording.
#928437 by ScoobySu
08 Nov 2016, 12:26
Silver Fox wrote:But it is proper confusing wording.


Totally agree! However I am going by Oli's original post of 1st November

[quote"OliByersVirginAtl"]Finally to confirm the dates of the announced changes: All Earning (Tier Points and Miles) and Miles Plus Money pricing will apply to bookings made on and after 13th November. All Reward Pricing will apply to bookings on and after the 16th January.[/quote]

So if I am reading this correctly Reward flights regardless of class can be booked at current redemption rates up until 15th January. I think Head For Points is also taking the same view?
#928442 by Silver Fox
08 Nov 2016, 13:45
ScoobySu wrote:
Silver Fox wrote:But it is proper confusing wording.


Totally agree! However I am going by Oli's original post of 1st November

[quote"OliByersVirginAtl"]Finally to confirm the dates of the announced changes: All Earning (Tier Points and Miles) and Miles Plus Money pricing will apply to bookings made on and after 13th November. All Reward Pricing will apply to bookings on and after the 16th January.


So if I am reading this correctly Reward flights regardless of class can be booked at current redemption rates up until 15th January. I think Head For Points is also taking the same view?[/quote]

Agree, the question I answered was about "rewards" so I think we are all in agreement that up until 15/1 it is the current redemption rates. I am particularly miffed about the miles plus money as I would like to book now for end of Nov 2017 - but of course I can't. But they could have made this so much simpler if they could be bothered.
#928443 by tontybear
08 Nov 2016, 14:07
feeling a bit thick at the moment.


So I can buy a reward now for travel in say May at the old rates and if I need to change the dates I can and still only be charged the 'old' rates?
#928445 by Myf
08 Nov 2016, 15:13
Joshl257 wrote:For me it's a mixed bag because I travel in economy to our second home in Tampa mainly though ATL. The changes for flying club silver and gold members is the sticking point for me. Under the current system I get 50% bonus miles on any flight flown even Delta domestic. But reducing that % for any flying club members is not rewarding. The fact is Virgin you are not part of any airline alliance so what little perks we get we like and therefore want to keep. I mean who in their right mind would pay 155.000 mies to fly to SFO from MAN in Upper Class when you don't even have a Clubhouse at Manchester. If you ask me you should concentrate on that last point and do something about it rather than trying to lose your loyal customer base. Because no amount of marketing and P.R will hide the fact you are taking things away.


Josh

Totally agree with your point on MAN to SFO. There is plenty of UC reward available on that route next Summer, and absolutely nothing from LHR. I was watching for LHR seats to be released for August, and literally sat there waiting for the clock to tick over from 337 to 336 days.... but nothing, NADA, not a sniff.

Can somebody explain please how the reward seats never seem to show up at all online? Some lucky so and so seems to have bagged them before they even go live. VS Staff maybe? Or is this a deliberate push to ensure people book from MAN? Call me cynical but it does appear that way.
#928446 by mitchja
08 Nov 2016, 15:16
tontybear wrote:feeling a bit thick at the moment.


So I can buy a reward now for travel in say May at the old rates and if I need to change the dates I can and still only be charged the 'old' rates?


As it stands now, if you book rewards flights at promo rates and then change the reward booking after the promo rate has ended, VS will debit the current rate of miles and not the previous promo rate so I can't see it being any different with this, so it's likely VS will want to debit the new higher miles rate after these changes kick in if you change the reward booking after January 15th.
#928447 by Martin
08 Nov 2016, 15:42
property1925 wrote:Oli

You have clarified some points. Thanks. But still ignoring one which might be important to many, and for me is critical if I am to stay with VS. Perhaps the lack of an answer is an answer? And if it's "don't know", I'm old enough to cope. (Sorry everyone that this is a bit local to me)

What is the status of non-Delta partner airlines and TP? (Virgin America going - are others ; Singapore, New Zealand?? )

Thanks


I may have missed it, or maybe Oli has not confirmed, but was there a clear response to the TP question on Singapore Airlines?

I'm flying with SQ to Australia next month in J and I was hoping that I would get a handy number of TP for the 4 legs LHR-SIN and SIN-BNE return. The tickets were bought (with real personal money :-) ) before 13th November and the flights are in December and January.

Under the old scheme as showing on the VS FC website today, I would have got 20 TP.

Any info welcome. Thanks.
#928454 by Silver Fox
08 Nov 2016, 16:54
mitchja wrote:
tontybear wrote:feeling a bit thick at the moment.


So I can buy a reward now for travel in say May at the old rates and if I need to change the dates I can and still only be charged the 'old' rates?


As it stands now, if you book rewards flights at promo rates and then change the reward booking after the promo rate has ended, VS will debit the current rate of miles and not the previous promo rate so I can't see it being any different with this, so it's likely VS will want to debit the new higher miles rate after these changes kick in if you change the reward booking after January 15th.


So, and I am feeling thick too, this is from the FAQ (I underlined what I think is the salient bit):

13. Can I change the date I want to fly if it means my flight moves to a different season?

Of course, if you booked your flight prior to 16 January 2017 you just need to pay a date change fee. However, if you made your booking after this date and want to change and fly in a different season you will need to pay more. Our Customer Service Centre will confirm the price and availability as each route differs.


I have to say that in the light of all of this, I do find that somewhat surprising.
#928460 by OliByersVirginAtl
08 Nov 2016, 18:13
Thanks to everyone for the continued comments and questions.

There have plenty of questions asked about our new Upper Class reward prices. It’s difficult to answer specific questions on route pricing like West Coast which has been mentioned specifically as each of you collect and spend miles in different ways. Our attempt with these changes was genuinely to make Flying Club more rewarding for more of our members. There are definitely combinations of ways of earning and redeeming that will mean Flying Club is not as rewarding as it was before but there are also other ways (and more ways) of earning and redeeming that will make Flying Club more rewarding than it was before. As well as answer the specifics on our Upper Class pricing changes I wanted to give you some more of what I feel are the benefits for members that we’ve achieve with these changes.

Explaining our Upper Class pricing increases

In terms of our Upper Class pricing increases, our Upper Class reward seats are our most sought after redemption and today we aren’t able to meet the demands of our members for these reward seats. This is despite on average having more than 6 Upper Class reward seats booked on every Virgin Atlantic flight. The most common complaint I receive is that our most frequent flyers can’t find availability for these seats. This is something I felt we had to address to make Flying Club more rewarding to Virgin Atlantic customers.

Increasing the prices means that Flying Club can afford to make more Upper Class seats available for redemptions. Flying Club purchases seats off the airline and so if we charge more for a redemption we can afford to pay more for a seat. Often we’re purchasing seats on peak flights so that members can redeem when they want to and so those seats can have a high cost to Flying Club.

Increasing the pricing meant we also had to address earning miles. For our members flying regularly with us in Upper Class or the more flexible Premium Economy and Economy tickets we wanted to ensure that you were no worse off than today if you want to redeem into Upper Class. On average and including the introduction of our peak season, Upper Class reward seat prices have increased 20%. At the same time if you fly in Upper Class or on flexible Premium Economy or Economy tickets you’ll earn on average 35% more miles than before. This means in the future you’ll be able to save miles quicker and reach an Upper Class reward seat faster. The new lower pricing in Premium Economy should also be an attractive alternative to spending your miles.
If you earn most of your miles through our partners these changes mean that it will take longer to save for an Upper Class reward seat. During the past year, a significant share of our Upper Class reward seats have been redeemed by members who have never flown on Virgin Atlantic (the exact figure I can’t share but it’s over 25%). Getting more of our Upper Class reward seats to members who fly on us and to our frequent flyers is a priority and increasing the pricing will help reduce the number of reward seats redeemed by members not flying on Virgin Atlantic. I appreciate this change may make Flying Club less valuable to several people posting here but I still feel we offer a great deal for collecting points on other programmes and then redeeming for an Upper Class seat and much more value that you can get for switching points into other competing loyalty programmes (both airline and non-airline programmes).

The other frustration I’ve heard and can understand is that if you have saved miles for an Upper Class ticket, we’ve now made these more expensive and you may not have a chance to book your seat before the changes come into effect. A question asked is why haven’t we adjusted upwards members mileage balances to reflect the increase to our Upper Class prices. Unfortunately we have to look at our pricing changes as a whole and include all cabins. When you also include our Premium Economy and Economy pricing reductions, more of our reward prices have fallen rather than have increased and our average miles needed for a redemption has gone down. I understand how if you save just for an Upper Class reward and aren’t interested in redeeming in Premium Economy or Economy you will see this as a devaluation. I hope the new lower Premium Economy and Economy pricing could tempt you to reconsider this given value we’re now offering with these reward seats and if not you still have time to book the current Upper Class reward seat prices before the new prices kick in.

Making Flying Club more rewarding for less frequent flyers

In one of my earlier posts I mentioned that we wanted to make Flying Club more valuable to more of our customers and particularly less frequent flyers. By lowering the cost of a Premium Economy and Economy reward seat we have doubled the number of our members who have enough miles for a reward seat or Premium Economy upgrade. Lowering these prices also made a reward much more achievable in the future for our members who fly only once or twice a year in Economy. While you’ll earn fewer miles when buying an Economy and Premium Economy sale fare you’ll need fewer miles in addition to those (earned on our credit card or partners) to reach a reward. This was very important to us as we really wanted to make Flying Club more valuable to our members who fly less frequently which I feel is more unique to Virgin Atlantic and definitely not a strategy of other loyalty programmes.

Is it still worth Flying Virgin Atlantic and joining Flying Club?

I would obviously say yes to this question, but I genuinely do believe that if you fly long haul and to the destinations Virgin Atlantic serves then Flying Club is a more generous loyalty programme than others out there and that you can get great value out of collecting miles with us. I mentioned in a previous post that it’s not for me to make specific and direct comparisons to other programmes as there are independent and trusted websites that do this so I’ll stop short of specific route / cabin comparisons. In general you will earn miles flying on Virgin Atlantic faster than flying on our main competitors (regardless of which cabin or class you fly) and the vast majority of our reward seats across all cabins require less miles to redeem. Together this means you can save and reach rewards seats much quicker with Flying Club.

Thank you again for all the questions and the more challenging ones, I hope the above helps to address these or at least provide more explanation behind our changes.

Oli
#928461 by Hamster
08 Nov 2016, 18:25
kanderson1965 wrote:Having decided that Walsh and Cruz over at the other lot are no longer worthy of my cash and if I stick with OW transatlantic, they will still get my cash, I have been looking at the VS/DL alliance for the 4 or 5 return flights to the US in business class I do for pleasure plus the odd flight in PE for work. With the impending changes to FC, which is the better bet, FC or Delta's Skymiles?


Interesting POV there.

BA have announced massive investment in CW, to improve food, soft product and improving the hard product (still likely to be step over though!), yes they have reduced economy offerings but as you travel in business class, what has changed that has made you look elsewhere?

(And yes, fly American, Iberia or Finnair and BA gets the same cut as if you flew direct on them)
Virgin Atlantic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 127 guests

Itinerary Calendar