News: Changes to Flying Club

What is AU?

[mitchja]

Au = Gold (its the chemical symbol for the element gold) and Ag = Silver (again the chemical symbol for Silver).

Changes to Reward Seat prices

I understand that if you’ve been saving for an Upper Class reward seat then these changes could mean that you’ll need to save up more miles. Oli

Really, you understand ... I don't think so.

Like many other people have said, I too collect my miles by spending on my credit card in order to book just one flight for us in UC just once a year.

For the past two years I managed to book upgradable M fare tickets needing just 50k return for our 2015 west coast and 2016 Orlando trips. However in February 2016 the miles required for upgrades suddenly increased significantly so I opted for reward tickets instead. Obviously these cost 100k return each but we're still better value than an upgrade fare. I even had to buy some miles in order to secure those elusive G's to the west coast from LHR.

If I understand correctly, from next year the reward UC fares which I have booked will cost 35k more or 50k + more during peak times.

I for one will never be able to afford those kind of UC rewards fares ever again after our 2017 trip. Oh but hang on, aren't I lucky coz now can travel in Economy or PE at reduced a mileage requirement.

Sadly I can categorically say my 'love affair' with VS will come to an abrupt end after March 2017

I'm in the same boat as you! We spend on our CC each year to save up the miles for an UC reward to the US, about once a year, or once every eighteen months. In between we try to squeeze in a Virgin Holiday and collect a few more miles etc on those flights, either in Econ or PE.

I understand that other posters are pointing out that customers like us are not spending out on UC or PE tickets every other month and therefore why should we expect to be rewarded with a free round trip in UC (save the £1,000+ added charges etc)? Well, we are staying loyal to Virgin, booking holidays, hotels and car hire through the Holiday brand. We are also spending tens of thousands on credit cards to earn more miles. Does Virgin not get a cut of the card charges that MBNA rake in each year on their VS CC's?

To save 200,000 miles for an UC reward to the west coast, means spending about £50,000 on the AMEX card and about £100,000 on the Visa. To get 2 x UC Z fares, which would cost about £6,000 if booked 336 days in advance. Bearing in mind you pay £1,000 in taxes and surcharges, that's a discount of £5,000 given. As a percentage of the £150K spend, that's 3.3% bonus. Not the best offer in the world eh!

Now factor in that you need 155,000 per pax to go to the west coast, so that'll be £77,500 on the Amex, and about £155,000 on the Visa. Total spend £232,500, value of reward stays the same at £5k, 2.2%.

Probably now better off ditching the VS credit card and switching to either a cash back card or BA or Amex linked to Avios. For flyers like myself we may find it harder to collect enough Avios to get to the west coast in First, but we can content ourselves with some small hops to Europe or slightly further afield if availability is there.

Can anyone recommend a good card to collect either cashback or Avios please?

If VS only want to reward people who buy full fare UC tickets regularly, and make it nigh on impossible to reward anyone else, then I will vote with my feet. So my spend on VH and VS in the future will be £nil. Instead of the trip to SFO we have planned for next August (which we now can't use our miles for, as we don't have enough to do 155 each way) - we'll use BA first on an A380, which is coming in at around £5,500 for two of us.

Goodbye Virgin.

I do see the point made, that VS probably aren't bothered about chasing or keeping customers who fly maybe once a year in UC, and those who collect air miles for UC flights. I get it, I really do, we are little people and of no interest. Loyalty seems to be a dirty word in so many companies (immediately to mind here is BT, who love to flaunt their broadband deals, but resolutely refuse to their existing customers). However, we do add up. I can only echo what some here have said, that we could well just have to use other airlines. A sad day to be thinking of it....

Can anyone recommend a good card to collect either cashback or Avios please?

Pop over to 'Head for Points' and there is lots of info on the various credit cards on offer with miles bonuses and earnings etc.

Raffles is an expert on the topic.

I've burned our miles on more than one occasion, sadly, this last time will be the very last.

We were the family paying real money for those UC flights and experiencing the 'don't care less' attitude when bumped off an UC paid holiday a few years ago. I don't expect any loyalty-pat-on-the-back, but I do expect good service and we were dealt with atrociously, even after the event when the miles credited to our accounts were taken off us as they decided it was 'too generous'.

We've had scores of 'crew' filter through from Y mid-flight who've taken over the UC cabin and bar. When you have paid tens of thousands (yes really) that is a devaluation right there in front of you. When you are paying real money for a product you want value, especially when it's a premium price for the premium product. Staff on a serious jolly devalues it beyond words.

On the whole with our paid flights, the return leg has always been disappointing, once to the extent I said we wouldn't use VS again. When it's your own money and it's a holiday, it hurts.

We fly out in 3 weeks using the last (bar 50k or so miles) on full UC G rewards with VS. Our G rewards in UC have (thus far) been our best ever flights - made the best, by the crew - I am keeping my fingers crossed this continues for this last brace of G's and maybe, just maybe I might still look at VS with my own cash in the future.

I don't want loyalty recognition as I'm not a business flyer, I just want to feel value in what I buy, whether that's with miles or with money.

Hello

A quick clarification on two points for you;

We haven’t changed anything within Flyingco. That means that you’ll continue to earn miles in the same way at 40% of base flown miles and 40% of cabin bonuses. The new cabin bonuses announced earlier this week will apply. Now that members can earn miles when purchasing our Miles Plus Money fares, Flyingco accounts can also earn miles on Miles Plus Money.

There are no changes to the lifetime Gold milestones, however to update the tier points required to be in line with the new tier point currency we multiplied the old 300 tier point threshold by 25. This means you’ll need 7,500 tier points together with 10 years of continuous Gold to reach lifetime status.

Thanks again,

Oli

I can only echo what some here have said, that we could well just have to use other airlines. A sad day to be thinking of it....

I was initially in the same boat but that sadness soon evaporated when I investigated some of the other options. I didn’t particularly want to reduce my flying with VS but considering the extra investment to maintain gold with no extra reward, it’s a pointless exercise for me.

Currently toying with a BA F return to NYC over Christmas for £2K. At some point, I would quite like to try the AA J product. For Dubai, I’m looking forward to using EK in J again - not just for the superior onboard product, but the vast amount of flight times to choose from. These flights alone would bring in 980 TP with BA and I’d be very happy with silver status for EU routes.

If BA/AA don't match up flying West, then I'll simply revert back to VS and maintain silver. These changes have simply made me explore and try other options.

I can echo so many of the comments on here, particularly perhaps about the irritation of being told that economy and PE are now cheaper. I too am not about to trade down.

Yes I'm a leisure flyer and VS don't care and won't miss my spring and autumn flights from LHR to NYC and sometimes to the Caribbean.

What they have forgotten, seemingly, is that smaller concerns offering fewer products have to work harder, not trade down to match their competitors who have more on offer. VS fly to far fewer destinations so for years they realised that they had to offer something special to counteract this and persuade pax to travel with them. So CC were the friendliest and best in the business, UC had a bar, afternoon tea was brought round, etc.

There are now markedly fewer CC, the bar is often unstaffed and even not readied and stocked, afternoon tea and other options have to be known about and requested.

As so many of us are now seeing, it's not worth re-routing or making any effort to fly with VS; if they don't fly to exactly where you want, others will and there's now every reason to search out and try other carriers. They may be offering just as miserable and hard to attain FF benefits, but VS are no longer any different and as a smaller operator, they need to stand out.

Hello

A quick clarification on two points for you;

We haven’t changed anything within Flyingco. That means that you’ll continue to earn miles in the same way at 40% of base flown miles and 40% of cabin bonuses. The new cabin bonuses announced earlier this week will apply. Now that members can earn miles when purchasing our Miles Plus Money fares, Flyingco accounts can also earn miles on Miles Plus Money.

There are no changes to the lifetime Gold milestones, however to update the tier points required to be in line with the new tier point currency we multiplied the old 300 tier point threshold by 25. This means you’ll need 7,500 tier points together with 10 years of continuous Gold to reach lifetime status.

Thanks again,

Oli

Only clarifying 2 points? Thats nice of you - what about the rest of them
I fly with VS about 15-20 times a year, minimum cabin I book is PE, albeit sometimes K class.
Your changes have made me seriously rethink my loyalty - I find the disregard in which regular, paying clients are being treated absolutely abhorrent.
You are now no better than delta - an airline which I actively avoid. It wouldnt be so bad if you weren't cutting back on the service offering too (which you are - Im sitting in NYC at the moment, and my flight out was not great, the dirty smeggy comb left by the previous occupant of my seat was a special bonus prize from the new flying club perhaps?)
Its been a short lived experience for me, I will burn off my miles on your new cheap seats for friends who want to go places, then I'm outta here. I know I am not alone.

Can anyone recommend a good card to collect either cashback or Avios please? .

Amex BA premium card - there is a annual fee, but they do a 'proper' 241 voucher.
First Class for one to SF would be 170k avios + about £525 in taxes & hidden surcharges... or with the voucher & for 2 :-170k avios + about £1050 in taxes & hidden surcharges.
However, you only get 1.5miles to a £1 spend (no visa supplement card) - so would be looking at spending around £115k for them 2 tickets. However, you could get an amex, hit the bonus miles + 241 voucher, cancel, your wife get a amex, hit the bonus. Then you can look at Lloyds Avios that has other bonus miles to hit. If needed, you could also look at the Free BA AMex just for the mileage bonus.
Finally, you can pool your miles into family account. For shopping portals, you can use the Avios one or BA one & TopCashBack (25% bonus with them) - you can move your avios from BA to Avios to Iberia (241 voucher only good for BA though) if needed.

Slightly OT, but interesting today that BA have told their investors too many F seats are being given away as redemptions. As a result F cabins on new aircraft will be smaller, and F will be removed from more routes, which will have an effect on reward availability when using 2-4-1 vouchers.

So it seems it's not only VS who believe they're "giving away" too many premium seats.

( Source: p15 of IAG's Capital Market Day presentation - some nice bedtime reading if you want to understand IAG's future thinking. http://i.media-server.com/version/14782 ... _193504248 )

The seats are only being 'given away' because BA gives them away! So it's a but rich to complain about it.

It is 100% their decision to offer F redemptions. No one is forcing them too.

In fact their only commitment to redemptions is to offer 4 Y ans 2 J seats on each flight.

Oli

You have clarified some points. Thanks. But still ignoring one which might be important to many, and for me is critical if I am to stay with VS. Perhaps the lack of an answer is an answer? And if it's "don't know", I'm old enough to cope. (Sorry everyone that this is a bit local to me)

What is the status of non-Delta partner airlines and TP? (Virgin America going - are others ; Singapore, New Zealand?? )

Thanks

Partner Airlines: I think we'll be saying bye bye to some and hello others. I'm looking at you KLM and AF. And Jet Airways.

I think we'll be saying bye bye to some and hello others. I'm looking at you KLM and AF. And Jet Airways.

Being in the "bye bye" category after March 2017, I shall be immediately be reverting back to using my BA AmEx cc & my Lloyds mc in order to gain Avios points.

If (the $ and the election playing a major part in the word "if") so if I return to the US again and I book completely using my hard earned cash, then I shall be using American Airlines. They are bringing out a new PE product in 2017 which maybe worth a try. A friend has just returned from Florida, went out CW with BA but returned with AA. She said their business class was superb as was the whole service.

It's all about personal choice, opinions and expectations but like so many people have reported during this thread and over many months, the VS product is in decline and all the cutbacks aren't helping. Yes I know they won't miss me & my family booking our once or twice yearly holiday flights but over the years since 1989 I have put thousands and thousands of pounds in the Virgin Atlantic bank account. It's sad to see the basic loyal customers leaving for pastures new and perhaps the grass may not be greener on the other side but a change is as good as a rest

Don't forget to check now BA are hated on other forums. And American. And Emirates and any airline you stomp off to.

Valid point Sealink, but I look at it somewhat differently. Flying club was part of Virgins USP. All the other were and are crap. So, Virgin, instead of keeping this USP, have decided to jump on the bandwagon of being crap. So, my loyalty to Virgin is no longer in play - the USP has gone. I may as well now go and be with another crap airline that services more of the routes I need to travel to. I do all my long haul with Virgin, and all my EU travel with, well, whoever fits at the time really, because it wasn't worth running 2 loyalty programs for me. Now, seeing as Virgins offering is in decline, they have, albeit indirectly, said that they don't value my business, its time to speak with my feet. If my money isnt valued here, then it may as well not be valued with a company that is more convenient for me. Simple really.
Sad, very very sad, but true.
Will be watching Virgins market value over the next 6 months - should be interesting.

It was distinctly British, had a special feel to it, did things differently, and mostly just did the right thing. The corporate drivel is in full flow about this now that DL has the steering wheel. Working for an American company I can just imagine the executives with tan "pants", tassel shoes, t-shirts under button down dress shirts in all weathers, showing an exotic powerpoint with all sorts of animations, espousing this "transformation journey", ra-ra-ra tosh. Rock on Virgin. Once were warriors.

I can echo so many of the comments on here, particularly perhaps about the irritation of being told that economy and PE are now cheaper. I too am not about to trade down.

I don't recall ever reading a V-Flyer post lamenting "I had to book an Upper Reward seat because I couldn't get a Premium or Economy Reward".

This is turning into an interesting thread and suspect it will probably end up the largest in v-flyer history.

For what it's worth, after trying to get my head round the changes (which is quite confusing) I don't "think" the changes will make that much difference to me, although that could prove to be totally wrong !

3 to 4 flights in Upper a year, all paid for by me, with the majority being cash but lately been able to spend a few miles on G's so getting to AU, whilst probably reachable doesn't bring any benefits, except for a few extra miles.

95% of my destination is now "USA South" so it looks like any rewards flights available will be slightly up or slightly down in miles spending but will be offset by slightly better miles earing. The tax costs bother me more.


The majority of my flights have been great or excellent, with maybe 1 out the last dozen being a bit below expectations.

The loyalty side of the equation, for me, and I realise not for everyone, is when your welcomed back into the Gatwick Clubhouse like long lost family, offered 10,000 miles to swap from the steak to chicken as they'd run out (and you would have changed if they'd asked) or even just being remembered on a flight and for those reasons I will continue to fly Virgin Atlantic.

I'm sure there will be changes that I don't like and haven't found out about yet, but I don't think the grass is always greener on the other side.

David

It was distinctly British, had a special feel to it, did things differently, and mostly just did the right thing. The corporate drivel is in full flow about this now that DL has the steering wheel. Working for an American company I can just imagine the executives with tan "pants", tassel shoes, t-shirts under button down dress shirts in all weathers, showing an exotic powerpoint with all sorts of animations, espousing this "transformation journey", ra-ra-ra tosh. Rock on Virgin. Once were warriors.

Oh spot on. I can't imagine SRB, even if his rebellious spirit has mellowed with age, approves of what DL are doing.

Trouble is the distinctly British, warrior VS was losing money hand over fist and almost certainly would have gone under if DL hadn't bought SQ's share and ordered Craig Kreeger to swing the axe.

So yes, we can lament the ever-increasing American corporate homogeneity but sadly have to recognise that - as with most of the High Street - the majority are happy with it. BA thrives on mediocrity after all. Sadly the margins in the airline industry just aren't big enough for quirky and rebellious to succeed.

Don't forget to check now BA are hated on other forums. And American. And Emirates and any airline you stomp off to.

Like I said it's all about personal opinions. One serious problem with forums is that one person's opinion often annoys another!

Many years ago I got in a very heavy debate on another forum, arguing in favour of the Virgin brand and pointing out the faults (as I viewed them at the time) about BA. I have learnt to back off and ignore getting into pointless unpleasant debates, especially when rude comments are made just because we all have differing viewing on an issue. That's one of the really good things about this v-flyer forum, the Mods monintor it very well and step in when required.

For info I am not about to "stomp off" to other airlines. In fact I shall be very careful what brand I use based on value for money, service and destination. Therefore it makes sense to me to use a credit card which gives an incentive in the form of miles/points in order to perhaps save towards my future fare. Under the new terms I am afraid Virgin Atlantic to not meet that requirement.

I shall be very careful what brand I use based on value for money, service and destination.

That is the sensible thing to do. Fly with whoever offers the price, convenience and service you're most happy with, not because of any little shiny bit of plastic and associated "perks" they may give you to try and win your loyalty. Because you can be certain airlines won't be loyal to you - all they really care about are the big-spending corporate accounts (and the cargo which is cheaper to carry, yields more profit and, crucially, doesn't complain!).

I shall be very careful what brand I use based on value for money, service and destination.

That is the sensible thing to do. Fly with whoever offers the price, convenience and service you're most happy with, not because of any little shiny bit of plastic and associated "perks" they may give you to try and win your loyalty. Because you can be certain airlines won't be loyal to you - all they really care about are the big-spending corporate accounts (and the cargo which is cheaper to carry, yields more profit and, crucially, doesn't complain!).

I couldn't agree more with this.

I can't recall the last time (other than a G to BOS in March) that I actively flew VS on a ££ ticket. I did fly with them in January but that was because my AA flight was cancelled and I was rebooked! I was actually pleased - unlike the other family who when offered the VS flight and their eyes rolled because they were loyal AA flyers!

In the last 18 months my paid flights have been on DL (thanks for the VS TPs that got me most of the way to silver) and mostly BA/AA simply based on price.

And yes that includes looking for ex-EU and VS being my first choice but my first loyalty is to the Bank of Tonty.

My Trip to SFO in July for example was much cheaper on BA/AA than it was on VS. (yes I found an ex-DUB on VS!) . So guess which I chose?

My NYC this coming January is also BA/AA - again because BA Holidays had a sale but V -Hols didn't match it (and yes I looked before booking)

I do have shiny VS and BA Ag cards at the moment. The BA Ag lasts until November next year after which I'll soft land to Bronze which is at least some recognition (and perks like free seat selection at T-7). With VS it's a cold, hard Red status which is basically nothing.

I remember asking here in around 2009 when I was considering a DL flight. I was hesitant because I was loyal to VS. I did choose the DL flights (they were in the end cheaper than VS) and was actually very impressed and they have continued to impress. That enabled me to break the lock VS appeared to have on me.

I guess what I'm saying is that brand loyalty is taken for granted. Do these changes suddenly turn VS into an awful prospect? No they don't. I remember the anger and angst with BA changed BAEC with many 'never fly BA again' comments. Many of those are still flying BA so the loyalty inertia has won.

I'm thinking I have until the middle of January to book something to use my miles up before the miles needed go up. I might have to buy a few miles to top up to let me do that but I'll consider that good value.

Despite the anger expressed in this thread I do think VS remains a good airline. I certainly don't think those looking at other airlines are now suddenly disloyal, awful people . They are simply doing what the vast majority of people already do and look to several airlines for their trips.