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#931234 by Tallguy
12 Jan 2017, 14:00
Well I finally lost my Virgin virginity and went from Gatwick to Havana and back again on a Virgin 747. Left on the 22nd and got back on Sunday morning. I flew PE, I am not that impressed.

I booked seat 15G when I booked the ticket as I like to sit on the aisle and be able to stretch my right leg into the aisle if needed. As mentioned in my other post I had to wait 18 minutes to check in but sure enough, the seat I reserved was given to me and I walked to security happy in the knowledge I was in what I hoped would be a decent seat.

It wasn't.

I was first to the gate and one of the first 6 to board, turning left was nice....but when I got to my seat what a disappointment about the legroom - or rather the lack of it. I'm a big PE flyer and fly PE on EVA Air and BA fairly frequently. The seat on EVA Air is the worst, but they give the most legroom....I'm 6ft 6ins tall but have a relatively short 34" inside leg measurement (my height is in my torso) but before I even sat down I could see this was going to be a squeeze.

When I sat down the seat itself proved to be extremely comfortable but my knees weren't that far from the back of the seat in front. When the passenger in front reclined their seat, it hit my knees. This is not what I wanted and doesn't happen on PE in BA or EVA air. I explained the problem to the FSM who understood the issue but was unable to re-seat me as the aircraft was full. He offered a customer comment form which I filled out (constructively) and the FSM then took the form from me and said he would write everything up in the flight log. An hour or so later the FSM returned confirming he had written everything up and offered to show me the flight log if I wished. I declined and thanked him for his actions. A floor mounted entertainment box also created a space problem for my left foot. I noted that 14B and 14H on the front row of PE had huge amounts of legroom and resolved to try and get one of those seats on the way back.

On the way back I asked at check-in to be moved to seat 14B or 14H in the front row of PE - both of which are on the aisle and have massive legroom. After 'a consideration' by the Cuban lady on check-in I was allocated 14H - a perfect seat. I made damn sure I was the first person to board the return flight, dumped my bag in the overhead bin and sat down pronto, just in case there was a seating dispute..... I stretched my legs forward and they didn't reach the bulkhead in front of me!!!! Great flight home.

So, if travelling PE on a 747 out of LGW I strongly suggest seats 14B and 14H as being the best. I'll know for next time...

And the service from the cabin crew on the way out blew away anything I have even witnessed on any airline (and I've been on privately chartered aircraft). The FSM gave clear direction and leadership to the team, all of whom worked very hard in all cabins and kept smiling throughout. The FSM publicly thanked the team via the PA system as we parked up at Havana. Not as good on the way back but there were a couple of stars in the team and I did blag an extra dinner as I was starving due to the delay coming back.

Arrived home on Sunday lunchtime to find a letter from Virgin apologising for the inconvenience and discomfort caused to my journey from LGW to HAV and enclosing £75 of Virgin discount vouchers.

I will post up TR's in the relevant forum shortly.
Last edited by Neil on 12 Jan 2017, 19:22, edited 1 time in total. Reason: Staff member name removed as per site rules.
#931236 by HWVlover
12 Jan 2017, 14:08
I am glad you got this sorted.

However, and with respect, I am not too sure how a headline featuring

"DREADFUL PE TO HAVANA"

reconciles with this

"And the service from the cabin crew on the way out blew away anything I have even witnessed on any airline (and I've been on privately chartered aircraft). "

The reality is that you opted for the wrong seat.
That is all.
:-D
#931238 by Tallguy
12 Jan 2017, 14:13
I paid for PE (all £1,600 of it) so that I could sit in comfort for my size. I couldn't, therefore I consider it dreadful. It's no fun spending almost 9 hours cramped up on a space too small for you. remember that live animals being transported have laws dictating how much space they must have, people do not enjoy that luxury..... But yes, the crew were fantastic.
#931246 by Smid
12 Jan 2017, 15:07
I don't think you can easily book those seats in PE, I had a bad knee and didn't get one, seemed as if a friend of the staff got one, the pilot came back to speak to him, and he was given champers from PE.

My nightmare for me, is to be downgraded to PE. Swore I'd never fly it again after last time, and likely to be taken off a flight in handcuffs if I do, on a dispute over recline.

I understand it's the right of the person in front to recline. However, I can't watch the IFE when they do, and have less legroom than economy, and can't watch the IFE when reclined myself (which would be necessary to solve legroom problem). Personally, would fly economy instead.... Sometimes less recline is actually better, and that's my view of VS's PE.

It doesn't help first few times I flew PE, we were on the old Upper deck and on the emergency exit seats which were wonderful. Those seats are now economy though... So I have a memory of a wonderful product which is now gone.
#931247 by gumshoe
12 Jan 2017, 15:14
Row 14 has the bassinets doesn't it? In which case it'll be held back for families with infants until check-in opens and won't be reserveable in advance.

If it's not needed for infants and it's not allocated at check-in it'll be available to staff and their friends & families on staff travel.
#931249 by SlimpyJones
12 Jan 2017, 16:12
As a fellow tall guy I can absolutely sympathise with the extra legroom afforded by PE being lost when the person in front of you reclines. Not meaning to get technical but the seat pitch on VS PE and BA WT+ is identical at 38". So I'm not sure how you have never come across this issue on BA. Do BA passengers just never recline? :P

I would simply chalk this up as a learning exercise. I now only ever seat myself in the back row as a first option. If the person in front does recline, I can counter with a recline of my own without feeling bad for the non-existent person behind me. Failing that, go for a bulkhead as you did.

Ultimately at 6'6" you're never likely to escape the prospect of reclining passengers unless you go for business class. Sad but a harsh reality for us tall folk.
#931250 by Smid
12 Jan 2017, 16:25
I've never flown BA WT+, but I got the impression that the recline pivot was higher up on BA, so less at the knees of a taller traveller or something.

I did see a picture of Norwegian's "business" which is effect their PE, and priced as so, and it looked as if it has much more legroom than the last VS PE I flew... Even when reclined.

http://thepointsguy.com/2015/10/norwegi ... um-review/

BTW, I've flown the product known as AA First LAX to Hawaii, and in both the old and new planes, which are like PE and never had the slightest problem with legroom. Those seemed to recline at a higher position too...
#931251 by Tallguy
12 Jan 2017, 16:26
I would probably have had better legroom sat on the exit row upstairs in economy than my outbound flight in PE. But the basic fact is that when someone in front reclines their seat your knees shouldn't get crushed in PE. The amount of space in front of 14A/B and 14H/K is enormous. These seats could be moved forward a little to provide a bit more space for each row behind. With all the hype about Virgin Atlantic I was just really disappointed by the lack of legroom. If the seat pitch is the same in PE on BA and Virgin then the Virgin seat is eating into it as I've never had my knees crushed whilst in BA PE even with the seat in front fully reclined.

Summary of PE's that I fly:

EVA Air - worst seat but best legroom - much longer legs than mine won't get crushed even with the seat in front fully reclined.

BA - average seat and average legroom - the BA offering looks tired and the seat is better than EVA Air. Never had my knees crushed even with a full recline from the passenger in front but less leg room than EVA Air.

Virgin - best seat but worst legroom.
#931254 by Kraken
12 Jan 2017, 18:56
Interesting comments, but a VS crew members name being mentioned with no mention that permission was given? Isn't that against the rules on here? (I know it's only a first name, but even so).

TBH, the no crew member name rule is a bit daft. If anyone at Virgin with the "right level of access" to their crewing systems reads a trip report / post on here, they will be able to call up the entire crew manifest for a set flight in seconds & easily identify who was working where, in order that positive feedback / proddings can be given as appropriate.
#931265 by DocRo
12 Jan 2017, 21:28
I am a mere 6-2 but had a similar disappointing experience in PE coming back from Barbados last Christmas on a A330. I think I was in 21G. The guy in front was big and my knees were wedged before he reclined. I pointed this out the cabin crew who got the FSM involved who was very good and sympathised but couldn't reseat me. I had to swap with another member of the family who at least could sit comfortably. There was significantly more room in her seat. We had another issue with my son's gluten free meal not being loaded but he did get a nice fillet of beef from UC. Sent an email on return and was treated to £250 in vouchers which helped with the 'tax' on this year's reward seats (Gs this time).
Probably wouldn't pay for PE again - preferred extra legroom economy which really was very comfy.
#931269 by sungod
12 Jan 2017, 22:27
i'm tall too and can sympathise, also had comfier flights in EC than PE!

PE is good as long as i) you avoid the floorbox (check seatguru), and ii) the person in front doesn't recline

imho both avoidable through better design

does anyone know if the 787 PE is better in this respect?
#931288 by Tallguy
13 Jan 2017, 10:53
I'm not looking for first class seating and service for PE money, what I am looking for is to be able to sit in reasonable comfort having forked out £1,600 for an air ticket. And any PE seat on the main deck of that aircraft with the exception of certain seats in row 14 fails to provide that. Seat Guru said nothing about a floor mounted entertainment box - I will be filing information with them.

Maybe next time on Virgin I will try an extended legroom economy seat.

Jet2 have a different type of aircraft seat, the design of which provides a lot more room. I flew with them to Dalaman a couple of years ago and it was quite comfy for a 4 hour flight.
#931290 by LucyLu
13 Jan 2017, 10:56
cheesebag wrote:I hate recliners with a passion.... so much so I keep knocking the seat in front until they get the message


So you NEVER recline your seat Cheesebag? Even on a long overnight flight? And you expect the person in front of you not to either? Hope I never sit in front of you because I won't be sitting bolt upright for 8+ hours and you can bash my seat as much as you like.

The seats are designed to recline and as long as someone doesn't do it during meal service I don't see how you an complain. I usually just let the person behind know I am going to recline out of politeness but a lot of people don't.
#931291 by gumshoe
13 Jan 2017, 11:10
Tallguy wrote:Maybe next time on Virgin I will try an extended legroom economy seat.


If you're 6'6" I doubt an extra legroom Y seat will be enough. You only get 3 extra inches.

The exit row Y seats would be better for legroom although some find them uncomfortable because they're narrower to allow room for the tray table & IFE monitor in the armrest.

Depending on where they are they can also be cold, suffer from galley noise, toilet queues and fellow passengers using your legroom as space to stretch their legs or cross between the aisles.

Never rely on Seatguru by the way. It's notoriously inaccurate. Ask here - you'll get much more informed advice!
#931293 by cheesebag
13 Jan 2017, 11:17
I have NEVER reclined my seat (when not in upper) by more than an inch or so... fully reclining onto the person behind is just rude, I've politely asked the person in front on three occasions if they could go up a little, two people did, the other got me knocking them for about an hour until they got the message.
#931298 by gumshoe
13 Jan 2017, 11:57
cheesebag wrote:The other got me knocking them for about an hour until they got the message.


If "the other" had been me I would have got the crew involved I'm afraid.

Whether you like it or not, your fellow passengers have the right to recline as far as the seat allows as long as it's not during meals.

If you don't want to be reclined on to, choose an exit row seat or upgrade. It's public transport, not your private jet.
#931308 by pjh
13 Jan 2017, 13:05
pblondon wrote:Agreed. If I'm flying PE on an overnight flight (as I often do from the East Coast) as soon as we're in the air, I recline fully, cover myself in a blanket, put on the eye mask and my noise cancelling headphones and sleep!


Including during meal times?
Virgin Atlantic

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