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#937017 by Test12345
29 Jul 2017, 18:13
I am booked on a Virgin flight from DEL (New Delhi) to JFK (New York) with a connection at LHR (London) for Dec 17. Virgin presumably canceled the Dec 17 flight and has automatically rescheduled me for the flight on the next day....Dec 18, but they did not also change my (LHR-JFK) connecting flight, which is still scheduled for Dec 17 and which I will miss.

Here are my questions:
1) I noticed that Virgin did not also automatically change my connecting flight from LHR to JFK to the next day like they did for the first segment. WHY do you think this is the case?
2) Virgin did not notify me of the flight change (I only found out about it by chance when logging on to their web site.). WHY do you think they did not inform me by e-mail? Is it because there is a reasonable chance they will restore the original flight that presumably is currently canceled?
3) I was originally booked on Premium economy. If I choose to travel on the next day (Dec 18), will they give me a free upgrade to business class because they caused a change in my travel plans?
4) Am I eligible to cancel the entire flight (for both segments DEL-LHR and LHR-JFK) for a FULL refund so that no cancellation fees (fuel surcharges which are typically non-refundable) and penalties apply (since they caused the problem)?
5) How can I know more details about the flight that was canceled and the chances it will be restored. The customer service reps. probably won't know much. Are there any persons here who know the operation details of the cancellation? I noticed that the DHR-LHR flight is canceled for Dec 17 and Jan 7 both Sundays but not for other Sundays in Dec 2017 and Jan 2018 (and for no Sundays in Nov 2017 and Feb 2018) Doesn't this seem weird, that they would cancel 2 flights for just 2 Sundays in 4 months?

Thanks in advance.
#937018 by gumshoe
29 Jul 2017, 18:55
Yes you're entitled to a full refund, or to rebook on a suitable alternative. You are not entitled to a free upgrade or any other form of compensation.

They will get round to informing you eventually and should automatically rebook you on to a more suitable JFK flight. But if I were you I'd call them and sort it out now.
#937019 by tontybear
29 Jul 2017, 19:02
1. Likely because their IT system hasn't picked the misconnect up yet. (this is an issue common to many airlines - the system sorts out the original flight change but takes time to catch up with any connections)

2. Check your spam email folder. When they cancelled my IAD flight that's where the email ended up.

3. They will not give you a free upgrade.

4. Yes you can ask for a full refund. Indeed it is a requirement of the EU261 regulation.

5. It would be very unlikely that they would restore a flight they have already cancelled. The flight could be cancelled for all sorts of reasons from low loads to issues with scheduling aircraft.

You basically have 2 options

1. Cancel for a full refund.

2. Accept the change but you will need to call VS to get the LHR-JFK leg sorted. If this is what you want to do then do it ASAP. As part of this it would be reasonable to ask VS to shift your return flights by a day
#937025 by Test12345
29 Jul 2017, 23:22
I do not wish to ask Virgin to change my travel days. Since they no longer operate the flight on the day I would like to travel (DEL-LHR), can I insist that they rebook me on Air France, on Premium Economy from DEL-CDG-JFK (Air France operates both the segment). Air France is a general partner of Delta but their premium economy fare is now 50% more than why I paid for the Virgin Atlantic flight.
#937027 by Test12345
30 Jul 2017, 00:05
What is even bizarre is why I go to the Virgin Atlantic web site and type in a date of travel for Dec 17 (DEl- LHR), it states "no seats available" (as opposed to say "no flights available on this day"?) Is there a clue as to the language they used? Also, after checking their DEL-LHR schedule over 4 months (Dec 2017 to April 2018), there are "no seats available" for the following days Dec 17, Jan 7, Jan 17, Feb 9, Feb 21, and March 9. There is no "rhyme or reason" to these days for which some are Sunday, others Wednesday and Fridays, which leads me to believe that they wouldn't just cancel flights on these days randomly 6 months head!

Doesn't this mean that there could conceivably be a computer glitch and the flight will be restored? Maybe that is why I haven't received a formal e-mail regarding the flight being rescheduled. I did book my ticket directly with Virgin Atlantic. This is why I am puzzled that they did not even send me an e-mail notifying me of the change. The mystery deepens.

Am I eligible for any protection for Virgin changing the schedule to another date? Can I ask them to book me on Air France premium economy on the same day? Virgin Atlantic is in broad partnership with KLM/Delta/Air France. Is it a reasonable request?
#937034 by Bretty
30 Jul 2017, 11:40
1. The partnership with AF/KLM isn't yet finalised.
2. Why don't you contact Virgin Atlantic and find out what your options are instead of speculating here?

I think that would be more beneficial for you.
#937035 by Nottingham Nick
30 Jul 2017, 11:50
Bretty and others, who have posted in your various threads on the same subject on different fora, are right.

You HAVE to contact VS. The longer you leave it, there is a strong chance that your options will be reduced.
It doesn't matter what possibilities are suggested, the only ones that count are the options VS offer you.

If they don't offer anything acceptable, it will be a case of cancelling and starting again. Again, the longer you leave this, the more expensive it could become.

Nick
#937037 by gumshoe
30 Jul 2017, 13:10
Test12345 wrote:I do not wish to ask Virgin to change my travel days. Since they no longer operate the flight on the day I would like to travel (DEL-LHR), can I insist that they rebook me on Air France, on Premium Economy from DEL-CDG-JFK


That's a grey area as far as EC261/2004 is concerned. It says in the event of cancellation you can choose between:

(a) - reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together with, when relevant, a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;

(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity; or

(c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger's convenience, subject to availability of seats.

However there is no definition of "comparable transport conditions". You might interpret that as allowing re-routing via a different airline, VS might not.

By all means try, but if it's a no you could be in for a fight.

Whatever happens, as others have advised, call VS now and sort this out. Tell them what you want, don't just accept what they've offered.
#937038 by gumshoe
30 Jul 2017, 13:33
To answer your other questions:

Test12345 wrote:After checking their DEL-LHR schedule over 4 months (Dec 2017 to April 2018), there are "no seats available" for the following days Dec 17, Jan 7, Jan 17, Feb 9, Feb 21, and March 9. There is no "rhyme or reason" to these days for which some are Sunday, others Wednesday and Fridays, which leads me to believe that they wouldn't just cancel flights on these days randomly 6 months head!


Such cancellations are very common. Airlines have to plan their schedules well over a year in advance but peaks and troughs in demand mean there are days, particularly in the winter, when low bookings mean certain flights just aren't required and it's cheaper to cancel than fly a virtually empty plane.

Very annoying for those booked on the cancelled flight, but airlines are businesses operating on tight margins and if a flight isn't viable it faces the chop.

Test12345 wrote:Doesn't this mean that there could conceivably be a computer glitch and the flight will be restored? Maybe that is why I haven't received a formal e-mail regarding the flight being rescheduled. I did book my ticket directly with Virgin Atlantic. This is why I am puzzled that they did not even send me an e-mail notifying me of the change. The mystery deepens.


Again, it's entirely normal not to be informed immediately the flight is cancelled. VS could have cancelled dozens of flights on different routes at the same time. If they notified everyone at once there'd be pandemonium as everyone called up to rebook or cancel. So they stagger it, in date order.

By noticing the cancellation before VS has officially notified you, you've got a head start on everyone else when it comes to rebooking. So call now and sort it.
#937039 by Test12345
30 Jul 2017, 15:10
Ok, now I see the pattern. The canceled flights seem to correspond to the peak travel dates during the Christmas season and the British schools' February half term break which could suggest that they are simply re-routing the flights on more profitable routes.

They shouldn't have had these flights in the first place. I would avoid Virgin again because they inconvenienced me for an avoidable reason. Presumably, they are doing this every year so they should have got their schedules straight before selling tickets in advance.

Anyway, to close the loop, I called Virgin and they were very nice indeed. They booked me on the cheapest "currently available" premium economy flight [ about 30% more expensive than what I paid), which actually was actually on their competitor, British Airways. (The flights on Air France and Lufthansa were more expensive and they couldn't access those flights when a cheaper flight was available.)

So they changed my initial segment (DEL-JFK) to a British Airways flight and continued to offer me a Virgin Atlantic flight (LHR - JFK) for the second segment. It will all be on ONE reservation.

The questions I have are:

a) Will my bags be through checked to JFK now that there are 2 airlines involved?

b) Is 4 hours adequate to make the connection from the British Airways to Virgin Atlantic terminal?

c) In case there is a BA strike, or fog at Delhi, who takes responsibility for the delay of the initial flight.....BA or Virgin
#937040 by gumshoe
30 Jul 2017, 15:30
Glad to hear everything was easily remedied with one simple phone call.

I sincerely doubt the flight's been cancelled so they can use the plane on a "more profitable route". It's most likely because your flight was relatively empty and they took the decision that it's cheaper not to operate it. As I said upthread, this is not uncommon in winter.

Anyway:

a) Yes
b) More than adequate. Shouldn't take more than 45 minutes to transfer from T5 to T3 - when you get off the BA flight follow the purple "Flight Connections" signs, catch an airside bus to T3, clear security and stop by the VS transfer desk en route to departures.
c) If your BA flight is delayed and you miss your VS connection, BA are responsible for getting you to JFK. Which, given there are multiple flights daily between about 8am and 8pm, shouldn't involve too long a wait.
#937041 by Test12345
30 Jul 2017, 15:58
By the way, the British Airways customer service rep. (presumably in India, and who also checked with his supervisor) is telling me that they do not through check luggage to NY, although Virgin said that they do! If through check is not allowed it will be an issue! And in India, reasoning won't fly. If something is ingrained, they will stick by it, even if it is wrong!
#937056 by Test12345
31 Jul 2017, 02:28
Separately, I called Virgin requesting that my itinerary be adjusted so that my second segment is also on British Airways. They said that I could not because I had already agreed to the flights they had initially proposed this morning (one on BA and the other on Virgin), and if I had not agreed, then they would have looked at other alternatives. This goes to show that it always better to research alternate options, and ask for them, as opposed to calling Virgin and asking them for the alternatives. This way, I would not be shoehorned into their selections. One loses your bargaining power if you just call them first and assume they will put your interests first. One also doesn't have to make a decision right away when once calls and one just say, he/she will get back. I am posting this for the benefit of others
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