Additional Aircraft

As well as the new routes the press release quotes RB:

"I'm also delighted to confirm orders for two more A340-600s which means we will take delivery of six of these aircraft over the next two years."

Previous posts have mentioned additional aircraft (often citing 777s) being ordered for future growth. I assume (but may be wrong) that VS have decided to stick with A346 for the time being. Anyone know (and I appreciate that this is an often discussed topic) where this will leave the A343 fleet? Will they be sold/returned when these new aircraft arrive over the next couple of years?

Alex

Following on from my previous entry, I've just read this.

"Virgin Atlantic said it also hoped to decide in a few months' time whether to place an order of up to 30 wide-body planes with US giant Boeing for its 777 or the European Airbus consortium for its A340"

This would seem a huge expansion (effectively doubling fleet size)- I think there may be a bit of 'artistic licence' being used by the mdeia here!

[Nottingham Nick]

As has been said before - if they order the 777 they will have to ditch the 4 engines advertising.

Expansion and confidence is good news though.

Nick

[mitchja]

What's the main differences between the A346 and the 777 aircraft [?] (other then the 777 having 2 engines)

It appears as though the trend is for VS to be pegging their colors firmly to the Airbus mast at the moment, what with the A380's due in 2006 and now the announcement regarding the A346's.

I wonder if they'll ever order any more 744's after the A380 is out? Perhaps the 7E7 Dreamliner will draw them back to Boeing?

I find the talk of the upcoming "super jumbos" very interesting. The blurb for the A380 talk of unprecedented comfort etc, etc, but I do wonder how much of this (lounges, gyms, etc) will be for your first class passengers only and how much noticeable difference those in cattle class will notice?

Or, come to that, how many of the features trumpeted by Airbus will ever even make it onto the production A380's.....

I've heard rumors that many of the buying airlines are only planning to have minimal additional features (shops/gyms etc) on top of the obvious increase in seats and cabin room.

[Decker]

From IHT Dec 3rd 2003 - http://www.iht.com/articles/120078.html

quote:
At lunch at the Airbus headquarters last week, I found myself next to the only major airline executive present, Richard Branson, the chairman of Virgin Atlantic.

Virgin has ordered six A380's. Ten commercial airlines (as well a cargo carrier, FedEx) have so far placed orders for 129 of the A380's. The biggest customers now are Emirates (41 planes), Lufthansa (15) and Qantas Airways (12).

Branson said Virgin planned to operate its A380's with a maximum of 524 seats in three classes. Among the innovations to consider, he said, was a better use of "the space taken up by the galleys" for food preparation. He briefly discuss an idea for "self-service" food counters, and the notion that reducing the need for galleys would provide the space to allow passengers to amble about and perhaps get their own meals in coach, cafeteria-style.

Given that Airbus say the A380 will seat 555, then 524 is not exactly going to leave huge amounts of space. Add in the differences caused by PE and UC not First plus the UC bar area and I somehow doubt that we'll be seeing some of the more outlandish suggestions for use of the space.

BC

quote:Branson said Virgin planned to operate its A380's with a maximum of 524 seats in three classes. Among the innovations to consider, he said, was a better use of "the space taken up by the galleys" for food preparation. He briefly discuss an idea for "self-service" food counters, and the notion that reducing the need for galleys would provide the space to allow passengers to amble about and perhaps get their own meals in coach, cafeteria-style.

Could this be the change to Economy service that declansmith hinted at?

quote:I cant say but the way the service is delivered is being changed. Different ways the meals are presented and the way the service is being run!!

[Pete]

Interesting thought. But how could they fit that sort of service onto the existing aircraft?

A380s present a unique opportunity because of the restrictions on the number of passengers they are certified to carry. Within the current seat pitch and config, that leaves a lot of space unused. On a A340-300, every available inch is taken up for seating, so you'd have to remove seats in order to provide a cafeteria style service. And, if they were taking out seats, I think we all know what we'd rather they did with that extra space

If the changes declan was hinting are due in November, then that's too early for the A380s. The mystery continues....

Pix

I love this site!!!

quote:Originally posted by randalf

I find the talk of the upcoming "super jumbos" very interesting. The blurb for the A380 talk of unprecedented comfort etc, etc, but I do wonder how much of this (lounges, gyms, etc) will be for your first class passengers only and how much noticeable difference those in cattle class will notice?

Its the same type of blurb they used at the launch of the 747, acres of space, large comfy seats throughout, upstairs was for special use etc..we all know the truth now

[Bazz]

quote:Originally posted by declansmith
I love this site!!!

Declan, you are a tease!

[Bazz]

quote:Originally posted by BlackCat
Given that Airbus say the A380 will seat 555, then 524 is not exactly going to leave huge amounts of space. Add in the differences caused by PE and UC not First plus the UC bar area and I somehow doubt that we'll be seeing some of the more outlandish suggestions for use of the space.

BC

I'm sure when the A380 was first announce AI stated the plane could be configured to carry over 900 pax? Would this be utilising y on both decks, or did I just imagine it?

I'm not totally sure either, but I think it is something to do with safety regulations, ie: the number of passengers you can evacuate in x minutes. This regulates the maximum number of seats on board to a figure far less than its capacity.

[Bazz]

Hi Jon,

Yes that would make a lot of sense, obviously safety issues must come first.

Who would want to fly coach with 900+ other pax anyway? [}:)]

I have visions of the low-budget airlines considering such a move!

Every aircraft regardless of size or type needs to be evacuated within 90 seconds.

I think Virgin are planning on a config with a max of around 550 seats in a three class config.

Thats not really that many more than a LGW400 which carries 439 pax!!

""Its the same type of blurb they used at the launch of the 747 acres of space upstairs was for special use etc..we all know the truth now"

quote:Originally posted by randalf

I have visions of the low-budget airlines considering such a move!

What with Ryanair removing seat pockets, windowshade blinds and "other luxuries" how long before "two seat only and you have to know how to fly a plane for those, the rest hold onto the overhead straps please"

I really hope Virgin decide to go with the 777 if they wanna buy more planes. Having flown on both these (with BA and Continental), and Virgin's A340's (both the 300 and the 600), I have to say I hate the Airbuses.

Every flight I've had on a 777 has been 10 times more comfortable and enjoyable than those on the 340s, and I know this isn't down to virgin, as I love riding on their 747's (even though I prefer the old style economy seats, much more room before v-port).

Graham

[Nottingham Nick]

Graham

Forgive my ignorance, but surely the comfort of the flight is down to the way the plane is fitted out rather than the manufacturere of the original shell / engines.

Most of the VS fleet have had a number of refits of some form - do they go back to the manufacturing company for these?

For me - as an economy traveller most of the time, the main source of comfort (or not) is the number of seats an airline manages to cram in. I don't particularly care how many engines a plane has, or what type they are - provided they work okay!

Nick

[Pete]

IMHO, 75% of comfort factor comes down to the airline fit-out, and 25% to the shell. The new Boeing 7E7, for instance, has bigger windows and overhead bins that its competition, plus the area in the cabin is bigger because of the way it's built (even though the seat pitch would be the same if Virgin were to ever buy them).

Pix

quote:Originally posted by pixuk
IMHO, 75% of comfort factor comes down to the airline fit-out, and 25% to the shell.

Would wind noise come under the 25% attributable to the shell in this case?

When I took a flight on a Boeing after a few flights on Virgins 340s I thought that my noise cancelling headphones had stopped working because of the additional noise that seemed to be coming through. Then I took them off and I realised just how much louder 747s are.

I agree a significant part of the comfort is attributable to the shell, but in this case I think the Airbus contribution is better. I only hope that all future designs reduce wind noise (lower drag?) even more than the 340.

Regarding the 380 - there have already been 747s (fitted for Japan domestic use) with 550 passengers. You really don't want to be at the back of the bus when these things land! I'm sure I have read somewhere that the 380 could carry up to 800+ passengers in a similar (95% economy) configuration, just it hasnt been cleared to evacuate that many passengers yet. Given those numbers, there would be a lot of space available if they are just configured for 550ish.

I'd like to suggest a new poll - what would you like to see on the A380! (3" more economy pitch, gym, showers, canteen, ...)

Nick