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#938824 by sungod
02 Oct 2017, 06:11
yes, very sad

i've used monarch many times over the years (mainly for their excellent extra legroom option), in atmosphere it always seemed the most 'VS-like' of the short haul carriers

the staff have always been great, must be very tough for them at the moment
#938826 by marshy11
02 Oct 2017, 07:49
It certainly looks like the CAA are organising things well. I was very impressed with their statement on BBC news this morning.
#938828 by Kraken
02 Oct 2017, 11:27
Eggtastico wrote:should solve ryanair pilot shortage

Unlikely, as the Monarch fleet is almost exclusively Airbus (they had 1 B737-800 in service). The Airbuses were due to be replaced by B737 MAX 8 from next year onwards. It is possible a few Monarch pilots may have done / started the type conversion but certainly not enough to fulfil MOL's immediate staffing / PR fiasco.

Does anyone know how long a type conversion course takes? Going from Airbus to Boeing flight deck would be quite extensive I'd imagine.

Finally, my thoughts are with the hard-working Monarch staff who have got caught up in this. Also the third party ground handling staff (if Monarch outsourced this) - although their future should be safer as someone will take over the slots Monarch used & those aircraft will need ground handling services.
#938829 by chriski
02 Oct 2017, 11:51
A sad day for all, especially for the staff and those who will not get a holiday or have to come home prematurely.

Hope the pilots have a better option than you know who !!

Used Monarch a few times over the past years and would agree that they had an edge over some other carriers on the European sectors.
#938831 by VS075
02 Oct 2017, 12:44
It was sad to wake up to Monarch's demise this morning, though at the same time unsurprising given their recent issues that led to the Greybull takeover.

I last flew with them in 2013 and I can't say I've ever had a bad flight with them whenever I flew with them to Spain and Portugal. I haven't used them since then simply because other airlines have been cheaper on the routes/dates I wanted to fly, which I think has been part of the problem for Monarch as they were competing against the other LCC's such as easyJet, Ryanair and Jet2 on many routes, as well as Thomas Cook and Thomson and, more recently, Vueling and Norwegian muscling in. Terrorism in certain core markets and the weak £ post-Brexit were no doubt contributory factors.

Well done to the CAA for their efforts in mobilising all the repatriation flights for those due to fly back with Monarch so quickly.

My thoughts go out to all the staff who are now out of work. I hope they find other jobs within the industry very soon and will no doubt serve their new employers as well as they server Monarch.

RIP Monarch Airlines - and thanks for the good flights I've had with you over the years.
#938832 by VS075
02 Oct 2017, 12:47
Kraken wrote:
Eggtastico wrote:should solve ryanair pilot shortage

Unlikely, as the Monarch fleet is almost exclusively Airbus (they had 1 B737-800 in service). The Airbuses were due to be replaced by B737 MAX 8 from next year onwards. It is possible a few Monarch pilots may have done / started the type conversion but certainly not enough to fulfil MOL's immediate staffing / PR fiasco.

Does anyone know how long a type conversion course takes? Going from Airbus to Boeing flight deck would be quite extensive I'd imagine.


Don't know, but I agree it wouldn't be an overnight fix for Ryanair if they recruited ex-Monarch pilots. The only pilots who could fly for Ryanair quickly are those who were based at BHX because Monarch's sole 737-800 that they added to the fleet specially to aid crew familiarisation ahead of the MAX-8's coming online was based there.

Whether it's with Ryanair or somebody else, I do hope all the staff involved find new jobs quickly.

Hope the pilots have a better option than you know who !!


I suppose if I was in their predicament and have bills/mortgages to pay and mouths to feed, I'd think carefully before being too choosy about who to work for next. That's not to say I would go straight to Ryanair, but when you're out of work you have to consider your priorities and decide what's more important with regards to your next career move.
#938833 by Kraken
02 Oct 2017, 13:24
Out of interest, what happens to the Monarch aircraft on the ground (i.e. all of them)?

Obviously any that were parked at contact boarding gates with jetbridges / or other prime foot-boarding gates near the terminals will be towed away to the most remote stands with the cheapest parking charges. Do the airports impound an aircraft - or two - if they are owed money by Monarch (e.g. landing / handling / parking fees)? The phrase "can't pay, we'll take it away" comes to mind.

ISTR that when XL Leisure (I think) folded, they planned to make the announcement when no aircraft were on the ground to stop overseas airports impounding their aircraft. Word leaked that the airline was about to fold & the airport police at Sanford (again, I think) followed a plane down a taxiway to block it from departing with their cars so it could be impounded as security for fees owed.
#938838 by djack8
02 Oct 2017, 17:02
I read an article that IAG will be perusing the slots at LGW left by Monarch's demise. Anyone think VS will also pursue for any of them?

Dan
#938839 by honey lamb
02 Oct 2017, 18:04
Aer Lingus is offering open information sessions for Airbus rated pilots tomorrow in the Radisson hotel at Manchester Airport from 9am to 3pm
#938840 by tontybear
02 Oct 2017, 19:48
CAA being organised - they have known Monarch were in trouble for at least a year - they did a lot of work this time last year when it looked like they were going under even to the degree that they spent several million from the ATOL trust fund (that all passengers on package trips contribute to) to book planes. It was reported on flyertalk that some of the QR planes they had contracted landed in the UK last week. The special website has also been ready for some considerable time - most of the info is generic and it was easy to just add 'Monarch' into the wording.

Now that Monarch have ceased trading the planes revert to the lease company (Monarch only owned one plane). The leasor wil be making arrangements to move planes from airports ASAP . It's no good an airport impounding a leased plane because the leasor isn't responsible for Monarchs debts

The administrator will be trying to sell Monarch in its entirety - not that there is much left.

Yes BA might be interested in some LGW slots, as might VS as might several other airlines. BUT there will be significant regulatory issues for some airlines to take over the slots en masse . BA and Easyjet are the two largest airlines at LGW and the preference wil be to allocate any free slots to any other airline than them in order to promote competition. The issue VS would is that it would need to find a slot at an airport that suits it's current route network as it's not going to start a short haul operation into Europe
#938841 by Kraken
02 Oct 2017, 20:45
honey lamb wrote:Aer Lingus is offering open information sessions for Airbus rated pilots tomorrow in the Radisson hotel at Manchester Airport from 9am to 3pm

That is very encouraging news - I bet it will be well attended by Monarch pilots from the MAN & LBA bases.
#938842 by Kraken
02 Oct 2017, 20:53
tontybear wrote:BA and Easyjet are the two largest airlines at LGW and the preference wil be to allocate any free slots to any other airline than them in order to promote competition. The issue VS would is that it would need to find a slot at an airport that suits it's current route network as it's not going to start a short haul operation into Europe

Given that there is not much slack in the VS fleet, have they got enough (or any) spare aircraft to start new routes - assuming, of course, they can find a suitable slot at an airport they want to add to the network / expand frequency at?

As it's a LGW slot, the route would by definition probably be leisure-centric, as the airport of choice from London for business passengers is generally LHR.

Fully agree that VS will not want to get their fingers burned on short-haul / domestic flights, as they would be competing with just the same carriers that Monarch were. I guess a lot depends on what conditions the slot allocator puts on the LGW slots, i.e. will they have restricted destinations like the slots BA had to sell at LHR which led to Little Red being formed? If so, they may not be of much interest / use to VS.
#938845 by VS075
03 Oct 2017, 08:41
Kraken wrote:Out of interest, what happens to the Monarch aircraft on the ground (i.e. all of them)?

Obviously any that were parked at contact boarding gates with jetbridges / or other prime foot-boarding gates near the terminals will be towed away to the most remote stands with the cheapest parking charges. Do the airports impound an aircraft - or two - if they are owed money by Monarch (e.g. landing / handling / parking fees)? The phrase "can't pay, we'll take it away" comes to mind.


tontybear wrote:Now that Monarch have ceased trading the planes revert to the lease company (Monarch only owned one plane). The leasor wil be making arrangements to move planes from airports ASAP . It's no good an airport impounding a leased plane because the leasor isn't responsible for Monarchs debts


If airport fees are owed, a common tactic is to "block" the aircraft in with ground equipment until the fees are paid. I remember seeing a few XL 737's blocked in at MAN that way not long after they went bust. I'm not saying Monarch owed money as I don't know what their books were like other than what was reported in the press, but I imagine fees are now being racked up since the fleet returned to their bases on Sunday night.

At MAN at least, considering parking space is at a premium now with part of T2 blocked off for the redevelopment works and the winter period fast approaching which typically sees some airlines park spare planes on the remote stands at MAN, I expect they will want the Monarch planes gone ASAP. I believe there's 8 or 9 now parked up at MAN.

It's then up to the leasing company to move the planes and do what they want with them. Some of the Airbuses they had are less than 10 years old and a few of those are new enough to have been delivered with sharklets, so I expect they will find new homes pretty quickly. It's the oldest ones such as G-MARA/OZBL/OJEG I'm not so sure about.
#938846 by VS075
03 Oct 2017, 08:48
Kraken wrote:
honey lamb wrote:Aer Lingus is offering open information sessions for Airbus rated pilots tomorrow in the Radisson hotel at Manchester Airport from 9am to 3pm

That is very encouraging news - I bet it will be well attended by Monarch pilots from the MAN & LBA bases.


easyJet are also encouraging ex-Monarch staff to apply for cabin crew vacancies they have going at LTN and LGW (100-odd positions was the figure touted). The good thing about easyJet and Aer Lingus is that they both operate large fleets of A320 Family aircraft like Monarch which will make the ex-Monarch crew attractive as they're already type-rated. Hopefully they will all find new jobs very quickly.
#938857 by jfenney
03 Oct 2017, 17:12
I have very recent emotions over Monarch as like all they were a great budget airline however just recently I had an emergency operation and had to cancel my forthcoming flights before this announcement. They offered me nothing and after an email to the CEO they reciended and gave me a credit voucher.

Just now disgusted that they knew what was coming and a lot of people wil now lose out. Lucky for us we will claim on our credit card
#938974 by tontybear
09 Oct 2017, 19:47
Sealink wrote:They didn't know it was coming.


They've been having problems for at least a year. And knew what was coming.

So much so the CAA had planned, booked (and paid for) replacement planes for a similar operation this time last year such was their concern about Monarch collapsing.

See

ABTA seeks clarity on £25.6m CAA contingency costs.

CAA statement September 2016

Daily Telegraph 30 September 2016
Virgin Atlantic

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