V-Flyer

Train all of your other staff as backup crew, perhaps?


Not a bad plan, if you ask me... [:w]

(Especially when, in some cases within BA, the senior management are paid less than the crew...!)




Oh, and WAY to go, endearing yourself to fellow workers, 'Tony'... [ii]

quote:It is inconceivable that BA should even be thinking of running its airline the national carrier with scab labour who have had only minimum training, said Tony Woodley, Unite joint general secretary.

quote:Originally posted by preiffer
Oh, and WAY to go, endearing yourself to fellow workers, 'Tony'... [ii]

quote:It is inconceivable that BA should even be thinking of running its airline the national carrier with scab labour who have had only minimum training, said Tony Woodley, Unite joint general secretary.


Yes, I read the 'scab' comment in the City AM free rag this morning, oh dear, the 1970's return, with BA becoming the new British Leyland.

Also on the BBC Breakfast this morning the quote 'looking after the interests of our members' made me wonder what a strike will achieve in these uncertain other than bury the airline deeper into the abyss, with the members without any job at all.

Don't get me wrong, for industrial relations to have become so bad is without doubt indicative of catastrophic management failure, with a them-and-us culture becoming systemic in very significant key areas of the business.

But words like 'scab' I'm afraid will only alienate the union from public sympathy.

Cheers, Howard

I can feel a strike coming just when my next round of BA flights are due in March[:(]

Iain

Whatever the heat level, and it seems to be turning up again, this situation looks like it's heading for a car crash.

I'm not blind to how these things reach breaking point, usually it's 50% company management and 50% staff / union. With the press and reporting we have, we usually only see one of these 50 per cents ... then public perception of course largely sees the unions as those to blame.

Let's not fall into the same trap ...

That said, however, BA management are entirely within their rights to do anything legal to insulate themselves from potential strike action. So good for them.

IMHO the Unite union don't have any grasp on the economic realities that have been affecting us all for the last couple of years. You just need to look at the way in which they have reacted to the Lloyds/HBOS merger where every announcement of job cuts (the 'death by a thousand cuts' is unavoidable given the size of these 2 banks) is met with a demand for the government to intervene to stop cuts that are either 'unnecessary' or 'totally avoidable'. The reality in both cases (BA & LBG) is that each business need to restructure its cost base in order to survive, but it seems that Unite would prefer to see the current excessive costs to be retained despite the fact that remedial action in the future will either be a) more draconian or b) impossible because the business has failed.

More to the point, if BA crew do strike (seems likely) and Willie Walsh sacks the strikers, as some forums are suggesting may happen - AND - BA opens up external recruitment for the 'new fleet' contracts paying market rate + 10%. How many Virgin Crew may be tempted to jump ship I wonder? 10% pay rise (possibly more if you're a CSS / FSM), larger route network etc...

I would imagine that the situation at BA is being closely watched by people at The Office in Crawley for reasons other than the possible uplift in pax numbers that a BA stike may give to Virgin.

James

quote:How to avoid a strike?
Is anyone actually trying to avoid a strike?
It seems both sides want this settled once and for all!

quote:Originally posted by Kraken
More to the point, if BA crew do strike (seems likely) and Willie Walsh sacks the strikers, as some forums are suggesting may happen - AND - BA opens up external recruitment for the 'new fleet' contracts paying market rate + 10%. How many Virgin Crew may be tempted to jump ship I wonder? 10% pay rise (possibly more if you're a CSS / FSM), larger route network etc...

I would imagine that the situation at BA is being closely watched by people at The Office in Crawley for reasons other than the possible uplift in pax numbers that a BA stike may give to Virgin.

James



Another Internet myth...

WeWiWa (or BA) cannot sack staff on strike where there has been a secret ballot in favour and the current legislation followed. To do so would constitute Unfair Dismissal unless it lasts more than 12 weeks.
Dismissal during an industrial dispute

quote:Originally posted by iforres1
I can feel a strike coming just when my next round of BA flights are due in March[:(]

Iain


Me too[:(]

What's that noise?

Sounds like champagne bottles being popped... from the direction of Manor Royal I'd say...

quote:Originally posted by rdm
IMHO the Unite union don't have any grasp on the economic realities that have been affecting us all for the last couple of years. You just need to look at the way in which they have reacted to the Lloyds/HBOS merger where every announcement of job cuts (the 'death by a thousand cuts' is unavoidable given the size of these 2 banks) is met with a demand for the government to intervene to stop cuts that are either 'unnecessary' or 'totally avoidable'. The reality in both cases (BA & LBG) is that each business need to restructure its cost base in order to survive, but it seems that Unite would prefer to see the current excessive costs to be retained despite the fact that remedial action in the future will either be a) more draconian or b) impossible because the business has failed.


I don't agree totally with the argument 'you should be thankful you have a job'. British Airways staggers from one industrial relations disaster another, and it's been like that for years. The cutbacks that they are forced to make a never ending, and I think the staff have had enough, because no matter what is sacrificed along the way, there is always some other reason that BA need to axe staff.

I don't belong to a union, and I admit that the language the union is using is inflammatory, but I think sometimes they are *always* seen as the bad guys, while the 'plucky, resourceful management' are the innocents trying to make sure YOUR (yes, you. We care about you, y'know that? We aren't like that pesky Unite) flight isn't cancelled.

Maybe an exaggeration, but how do so many other airlines manage to do that thing they do - flying people from A to B, without the fuss that BA encounters every six months?

And now I have reread and my post seems inflammatory. But hopefully someone can make my point more succinctly.

quote:Originally posted by Sealink
I don't agree totally with the argument 'you should be thankful you have a job'. British Airways staggers from one industrial relations disaster another, and it's been like that for years. The cutbacks that they are forced to make a never ending, and I think the staff have had enough, because no matter what is sacrificed along the way, there is always some other reason that BA need to axe staff.

I don't belong to a union, and I admit that the language the union is using is inflammatory, but I think sometimes they are *always* seen as the bad guys, while the 'plucky, resourceful management' are the innocents trying to make sure YOUR (yes, you. We care about you, y'know that? We aren't like that pesky Unite) flight isn't cancelled.

Maybe an exaggeration, but how do so many other airlines manage to do that thing they do - flying people from A to B, without the fuss that BA encounters every six months?

And now I have reread and my post seems inflammatory. But hopefully someone can make my point more succinctly.


I don't think your post was inflamatory at all and agree that questions need to be asked as to why BA find themselves in this situation on a regular basis.

Whilst I am a union member I'm certainly not 'left-wing' & neither am I saying that the BA workforce should be grateful for the jobs they have. Unions do serve a good purpose in providing a voice for their members, but there are some (particularly Unite) that are becoming increasingly militant when the economy generally (let alone BA) cannot afford the cost of strike action.

If the unions are meant to represent the workers in protecting their jobs, sometimes that means that they will have to accept a comparatively small cut back (after all cutting CC from 15 to 14 is c.6%) especially when you consider the increase in the price of oil over the last 12 months ($36.51 16/1/09 v $78 15/1/09 - increase in excess of 100%).

Just to get back to the topic.

Cross training like this really didn't work that well for Peoples Express.

On the strike threat, I am a union member, have been for years, with that said, this really is a no win situation for both sides, they need to be locked in a room till they either kill each other or get their joint acts toegether. The one thing is, the Union is hurting BA even without striking, every time a vote is called BA loses bookings.

quote:Originally posted by Scrooge
Just to get back to the topic.

Cross training like this really didn't work that well for Peoples Express.

On the strike threat, I am a union member, have been for years, with that said, this really is a no win situation for both sides, they need to be locked in a room till they either kill each other or get their joint acts toegether. The one thing is, the Union is hurting BA even without striking, every time a vote is called BA loses bookings.

But if the business was being destroyed, would the sharepricenot reflect that?

Hmmm would I rather be served by a properly trained and experienced (but hacked off by the management) member of cabin crew or some briefly (though trained to the minimum legal level) member of backroom staff who 'volunteered' to work on a plane?

Who'd want a meal served by a baggage handler...?

quote:Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
Who'd want a meal served by a baggage handler...?

Likely just to be a lunchbox for the duration of the strike.

quote:Originally posted by Bill S
quote:Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
Who'd want a meal served by a baggage handler...?

Likely just to be a lunchbox for the duration of the strike.


I don't want to even thing about some baggage handlers lunch box thanks very much !

quote:Originally posted by tontybear

I don't want to even thing about some baggage handlers lunch box thanks very much !

quote:Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
Who'd want a meal served by a baggage handler...?


Some of them are very hunky.
[:I]

quote:Originally posted by Sealink
quote:Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
Who'd want a meal served by a baggage handler...?


Some of them are very hunky.
[:I]


Yes but there is a time and a place for a hunky baggage handler!

quote:Originally posted by tontybear
quote:Originally posted by Sealink
quote:Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
Who'd want a meal served by a baggage handler...?


Some of them are very hunky.
[:I]


Yes but there is a time and a place for a hunky baggage handler!


Personal experience? Where do we meet them, do tell!

Can someone explain why/how BA are the 'National Carrier'? I keep seeing this phrase and I don't really get it?

Slinky - I wish !

Decker - a relic from the days when the likes of BA etc etc were owned by the state so were the designated 'flag carrier' of that nation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_carrier

Thanks Tonty my assumption was that as they were privatised they'd lost the status