V-Flyer

With the 330 coming on to the scene next year and the LGW 744's staying the only real option I see is a massive expansion over the next couple of years.

Now in my mind the 330 give VS a lot more flexibility, the big question, where are they going to us that flexibility ?

One stop down to the west coast of Australia ?

More Caribbean islands ?

Mexico ?

Your thoughts.

There are ten A333s coming and lot's of comments, such as weren't they supposed to replace the LHR A343s, of which there are six (for fuel efficiency). So the expansion may not be that large.

Second thought is where might expansion come from - and we've long rumoured the possibility of one or more A333 being based at Manchester.

Third, if expansion at Heathrow where are the slots coming from? Aren't VS already leasing some from UA?

So my thoughts include:

- one of the 747s is going back to LHR and LAS is moving there too
- six A333s will replace the A343s at LHR
- two A333s will be stationed at MAN (and also operate GLA) with new routes
- two A333s will operate from LHR to new routes that may be in South America or Asia - but this is dependent on slot acquisition

Seattle
Fort Lauderdale (instead of Miami)
Perth - Western Australia.
Dallas
Toronto

What about Canada as a destination. I know that Vancouver and maybe Toronto have been mentioned.

With the demise of zoom, there is maybe even an opening out of GLA for some Canadian destinations.

I know there is huge family connections with Scotland and Canada

David

Thailand?

I was actually thinking along that route, LHR-BKK - ?

For me, Fort Lauderdale is a total no-brainer. The UK cruise market would easily make it profitable.

SEA is another route worthy of a visit. Not sure about Canada though. Toronto has been tried before (twice ?) and failed.

Darren Wheeler wrote:For me, Fort Lauderdale is a total no-brainer. The UK cruise market would easily make it profitable.

SEA is another route worthy of a visit. Not sure about Canada though. Toronto has been tried before (twice ?) and failed.

I'd love for FLL to come on - I might start visiting Miami again. Much nicer airport to travel through and direct flights to Key West!

It may take some time for the 744 refit.
They will have to replace 744s while that is done.

The refit would be like a D+ check. Refitting the interior alone, along with all the checks and shakedown must put this into 8-10 weeks each.

I'm sure VS will try Canada once again.
Like its been said before though, hopefully MAN will benefit from the delivery of these - maybe the old UVF route might start up again or the long awaited LAS route

Well I swear that somewhere last week I read that the 787 was the actual replacement for the 343 and not the 330. I can't remember where I saw that but it was on a bit of official VS literature.

I personally can't see why VS would select FLL. Everything that FLL does MIA already does, so it already caters for the large cruise market and also works well for passengers doing a fly drive taking in Everglades, Keys, Orlando etc. Must also remember that at some point VS will be moving terminals at MIA, so whilst the current terminal is not the best in terms of passenger experience, it will not be too long until that is forgotten. It would be a large decision for VS for them to pull out of MIA, lets not forget it was the third route the airline operated and FLL does not really have the "kudos" that MIA does. And I do not believe that FLL would be that much cheaper than MIA, if it was then we would see a raft of carriers switching to FLL.


I think the VS press releases on the 330 give us a pretty good idea where they will be used. Cancun, Vancouver and Beijing are all mentioned in the 330 press releases. I also think that the aircraft will be fairly successful on "thiner" routes such as some of the Caribbean islands that perhaps do not have sufficient demand for a 744 double drop service. VH have played a big part in helping VS through the economic uncertainty of the last couple of years and I would not be surprised if we see the opening of more leisure orientated routes using the 330s. There is nothing to suggest that the aircraft will be operated from LHR.

MAN and GLA have huge potential. I think VH/VS have been very pleased with GLA. However there is a difference between operating to MCO, seasonally, and operating a weekly service to business destinations from GLA. MAN is calling out for a west coast America route.

Darren Wheeler wrote:
SEA is another route worthy of a visit. Not sure about Canada though. Toronto has been tried before (twice ?) and failed.

SEA has been mentioned a fair amount. The issue with SEA though is that there perhaps is not quite the demand one would expect, just look at how quickly DL dropped the LHR-SEA route. Certainly four years ago SEA would have been a no brainer, after all there were hardly any carriers operating Europe-SEA, but there has been a bit of an influx of late so am not sure if VS could get the route to work.

Toronto was tried before, once, however the issue was that the route was operated by ageing 742's and the route had only been operational for a couple of months before 9/11 happened. IIRC it was the first route cut after 9/11, so really was not given long enough to perform, I believe you really need to give a route a year to see how well it works. Of course the issue with Toronto is that AC are exceptionally strong and will take all *A members and of course now we have carriers like EK operating DXB-YYZ which will take a huge amount of connecting passengers off VS.

I can personally see the 330 only operating the shorter routes to the East Coast, Lagos, Accra and Dubai.

I certainly don't see it operating anything longer.

Tinkerbelle wrote:I can personally see the 330 only operating the shorter routes to the East Coast, Lagos, Accra and Dubai.

Surely though Tinks somewhere like LOS has enough demand for a larger aircraft? ACC I can understand and some of the routes such as IAD and BOS which are currently receiving the 343.

The question I have is, where are they getting the slots at LHR for all these flights ?

Unless they plan to expand to another airport such as Luton, Stansted, Cardiff?

I'm not so sure, pertaining to the BD thread, I have a little thought going through my head.

I can actually see VS joining the LH/UA JV and using the BD slots to open up a whole bunch of routes that are timed to connect with the VS/UA US flights.

Tinkerbelle wrote:I can personally see the 330 only operating the shorter routes to the East Coast, Lagos, Accra and Dubai.

I certainly don't see it operating anything longer.

I think the idea of mentioning PEK is that the 330s will free up the 346s for these kind of places. I'm assuming that the 330s are for expansion (and 744 refit cover) while the 787s are for 343 replacement and eventually 346 replacement. If the 330s really do have no crew rest then there's no way they'll be on proper long haul.

Manchester to Fort Lauderdale would do me just fine.

McMaddog wrote:

Tinkerbelle wrote:I can personally see the 330 only operating the shorter routes to the East Coast, Lagos, Accra and Dubai.

I certainly don't see it operating anything longer.

I think the idea of mentioning PEK is that the 330s will free up the 346s for these kind of places. I'm assuming that the 330s are for expansion (and 744 refit cover) while the 787s are for 343 replacement and eventually 346 replacement. If the 330s really do have no crew rest then there's no way they'll be on proper long haul.

However there must be a crew rest option. After all the 330 is essentially the same plane as the 343, which have crew rest and IIRC AF use their 330's on rather long stints to South America, so again must have crew rest. I guess as you say we just have to wait and see what VS have gotten installed.


Scrooge raises a very good point- where on earth are the slots coming from. This is what made me believe that we would perhaps see the 330's being used more from LGW/MAN. Of course however what we could see is the 343s going over to LGW/MAN and the 330s staying at LHR, using the previously occupied 343 slots.

willd wrote:

McMaddog wrote:

Tinkerbelle wrote:I can personally see the 330 only operating the shorter routes to the East Coast, Lagos, Accra and Dubai.

I certainly don't see it operating anything longer.

I think the idea of mentioning PEK is that the 330s will free up the 346s for these kind of places. I'm assuming that the 330s are for expansion (and 744 refit cover) while the 787s are for 343 replacement and eventually 346 replacement. If the 330s really do have no crew rest then there's no way they'll be on proper long haul.

However there must be a crew rest option. After all the 330 is essentially the same plane as the 343, which have crew rest and IIRC AF use their 330's on rather long stints to South America, so again must have crew rest. I guess as you say we just have to wait and see what VS have gotten installed.


Scrooge raises a very good point- where on earth are the slots coming from. This is what made me believe that we would perhaps see the 330's being used more from LGW/MAN. Of course however what we could see is the 343s going over to LGW/MAN and the 330s staying at LHR, using the previously occupied 343 slots.

The 330's are not being fitted with crew rests.

So mid haul then for the 330's.

I am telling you, there is something going on between LH/UA/CO/VS, I am fully expecting to see a big push by VS into Africa over the next couple of years using the 330's

Now watch, they will announce GRU as a 330 route

Scrooge wrote:So mid haul then for the 330's.

I am telling you, there is something going on between LH/UA/CO/VS, I am fully expecting to see a big push by VS into Africa over the next couple of years using the 330's

Now watch, they will announce GRU as a 330 route

That's a set of comments that you need to elaborate on .

As for GRU, it's longer than LAX so I can't imagine no crew rest A333s will do that.

Scrooge wrote:So mid haul then for the 330's.

I am telling you, there is something going on between LH/UA/CO/VS, I am fully expecting to see a big push by VS into Africa over the next couple of years using the 330's

Now watch, they will announce GRU as a 330 route

Africa would seem to be a good area of expansion for VS, somewhere that BD highlighted as a possible area of expansion, before deciding it was the Middle East for them.

GRU and the like could well end up being done in the next couple of years but just not with the 330. Lets not forget that routes such as IAD/BOS/EWR/JFK could well be prime contenders for the 330 and as a result there will be free aircraft for other routes (read GRU etc).

I am quite surprised that VS have gone with no crew rests, especially considering, IIRC, that it seems crew go on rest even on the shorter East Coast routes. I certainly can't see VS doing a DL and having sections of Y seats roped off as crew rest, although of course, as NZ have shown with their 767s, its quite easy to fit in a crew rest in the cabin if needs be later on.

GRU was just a place I pulled out of thin air, if it does start I could see it as a 346 route.

Ok, my thoughts on the LH/UA/CO/VS thing will start in a new thread in the main forum.

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