V-Flyer

SKY 3 Last Night

Did anybody watch this dramatisation last night? I thought it was OK, as they tried to convey the horror of such a disaster over the SE of England. A job in which I think they succeeded, albeit very dramatically.

The programme referenced previous mid air collisions including the one over Germany, where a cargo plane collided with a Russian aircraft. 71 people were killed, including 45 children. They stated that the "Russian aircraft ignored TCAS, which could of prevented the disaster."

From my recollection of events, (and I maybe wrong on this one) an automatic warning system on the ground (in Switzerland where the aircraft were being handled at that time) was switched off (the controller didn't know), the other ATC was on a break.

When the aircraft were dangerously close, the controller suddenly recognised what was about to happen. So did the TCAS on both aircraft.
The ATC issued instructions for the Russian pilots to descend.
At the same time, the TCAS was telling the Russian pilots to climb, and telling the cargo plane pilots to descend.
The Russian pilots got confused and did not know which instruction to follow, so went with the ATC thinking he was right. The outcome we all know.

So for the programme to state the "Russian pilots ignored the TCAS" is true, but they didn't give the overall picture as to why they ignored the TCAS, and I thought this was very unfair.

I just wondered if anyone else saw it and what they thought.

I wish I had of seen the program, hope it will be repeated at some point...,( but you did say sky3 not the BBC ) oh well lets hope.

Johnny Boy,

Thank you for your account of this tragic accident and I am pleased that you have got it spot on. I was living and working in Russia at the time of this tragic accident and I must say I was disgusted at the BBC's initial report when this accident happened, with the entire blame being put on the Russian crew.

Thankfully the real facts are out there.

Unfortuantely the sadness did not stop there as the father of one of the dead children murdered the Swiss controller later on.

Iain

Originally posted by milehigh
I wish I had of seen the program, hope it will be repeated at some point...,( but you did say sky3 not the BBC ) oh well lets hope.

Last night show was already a repeat, I saw this show a couple of months ago on sky 1

What an awful ending to the story. To be murdered for making a mistake, but also the poor man who was pushed over the edge by his grief. Makes you stop and think a bit.

Originally posted by sailor99
What an awful ending to the story. To be murdered for making a mistake, but also the poor man who was pushed over the edge by his grief. Makes you stop and think a bit.

ISTR that did happen in a real accident a while ago.

Hold on, googling...

BBC News

Sorry, when I said story, I meant the real incident Iain was referring to.

Originally posted by JonnyBoy
So for the programme to state the "Russian pilots ignored the TCAS" is true, but they didn't give the overall picture as to why they ignored the TCAS, and I thought this was very unfair.

That's true - not very balanced. Though I think the reason might be that (in Western Europe at least), aren't pilots trained to ignore ATC and follow TCAS only? Plus, like the ficticious ATC guy on the program said, aren't ATC supposed to leave the pilots alone once notified of a TCAS descent/climb?

Cheers

Michael

Though I think the reason might be that (in Western Europe at least), aren't pilots trained to ignore ATC and follow TCAS only?

I am not sure of the comparability of Russian pilot training vs Europe/Americas. TCAS was designed to eliminate the possibility of 2 aircraft colliding mid-air, but of course only if the pilots in both aircraft obeyed the TCAS instruction.

An ATC being a human voice telling you to do the opposite of that to the computerised recorded voice? Who do you trust? After all, the human can see a radar screen in front of them, so they must be right...right?

A tricky dilemma. It would be nice to get clarification from those who know what Western trained pilots are told to do in the event of a TCAS instruction vs Russian trained pilots.

Originally posted by JonnyBoy

Though I think the reason might be that (in Western Europe at least), aren't pilots trained to ignore ATC and follow TCAS only?

I am not sure of the comparability of Russian pilot training vs Europe/Americas. TCAS was designed to eliminate the possibility of 2 aircraft colliding mid-air, but of course only if the pilots in both aircraft obeyed the TCAS instruction.

An ATC being a human voice telling you to do the opposite of that to the computerised recorded voice? Who do you trust? After all, the human can see a radar screen in front of them, so they must be right...right?

A tricky dilemma. It would be nice to get clarification from those who know what Western trained pilots are told to do in the event of a TCAS instruction vs Russian trained pilots.

My understanding was that as soon as TCAS activates the pilot should follow it's command.

Patrick Smith wrote a column on this incident. http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/200 ... print.html

Cheers
sky