V-Flyer

On VS75, MAN-MCO, 21 Dec 09 I was in seat 80H and was last in cabin to be served lunch. I didn't really expect a choice other than 'take it or leave it' but when I asked for chicken the FA said she'd check downstairs. She was gone for ages then reappeared with beef - not on PE menu so presumably economy. No PE tray, just an economy tray with the beef, a bowl of salad, the economy cheese/crackers (instead of the named cheddar) and a tub of some chocolate/praline thing (instead of Gu).

To be honest, the only bit of the meal I generally eat is the cheese/crackers and the Gu. So I wasn't a happy teddy.

But what made it more annoying was that the 2 men sitting in the crew seats at the top of the stairs (presumably crew or elated to crew - certainly one seemed to be travelling with a crew member who may have been the FSM) not only got full trays but also additions from Upper Class including hot pudding and custard - I distinctly heard this as an FA was telling him she'd try to get him another one.

I understand looking after your friends/colleagues when you can. But I don't think it should be to the detriment of a paying passenger, particularly not one who was sitting within sight and earshot.

I've just sent an e-mail to Customer Services asking for an explanation. Do I stand any chance of getting a reply? Or an honest response?

I would hope you would get some sort of response from the CS, how satisfied you are with it could be a different story!

I would say however for future flights, if you have have any issues with things like this when on the a/c, you should try and speak with the FSM, and bring any issues to their attention. They should be best placed to sort something out there and then, and if they can't they can note it in their flight report for future reference.

Neil

Downright cruddy service. Sadly also symptomatic of cost cutting (no spare food) or bad planning. Neil's right, you should speak to the FSM, at the very least they can write it up in their report.

I hope you get a reasonable reply from CS.

quote:Originally posted by Neil

I would say however for future flights, if you have have any issues with things like this when on the a/c, you should try and speak with the FSM, and bring any issues to their attention.

What, even if, as the OP implied, one of the men was 'involved' in some way with the FSM?

If the pax getting the full meal trays / extra food from UC were 'involved' with the FSM in some way as the OP suggests, then this is not on.

I would have thought that any non-rev pax (they were sat in crew seats - a revenue pax would get a proper seat) should be at the bottom of the list when it comes to food - i.e. they get what's left. A bit like if you get an operational upgrade, you can hardly complain if you fail to get your meal choice from the upgraded cabin menu - or even be served a Y meal in PE / PE meal in UC.

quote:Originally posted by Treelo
quote:Originally posted by Neil

I would say however for future flights, if you have have any issues with things like this when on the a/c, you should try and speak with the FSM, and bring any issues to their attention.

What, even if, as the OP implied, one of the men was 'involved' in some way with the FSM?


Yes. The FSM has a duty to sort and or report any problems raised by any of the pax on the flight that they are in charge of. Maybe the FSM wasn't aware that a paying PE pax hadn't got the correct meal, just because he 'may or may not' have had a friend, or fellow crew member on the flight, doesn't mean the PE crew told him about the issue.

I would always ask to personally speak to the FSM if I had an issue, and if they couldn't or wouldn't resolve the issue that would also be part of any later complaint to VS.

Oh dear, the 'preferential treatment for crew/friends of crew' problem strikes yet again. At my business, if I discovered that any of my employees were doing this to the detriment of paying custoners they'd be for the high jump.

I don't agree with those who say 'this is a perk of being VAA staff' - it always seems to get forgotten that it is the paying customers who get p****d off and then take their custom somewhere else, who are paying the wages [V].

I simply cannot get my around the concept of paying-passengers come second except in the most extreme extenuating circumstances, for things such as meals and seat allocation.

quote:Originally posted by Kraken
I would have thought that any non-rev pax (they were sat in crew seats - a revenue pax would get a proper seat) should be at the bottom of the list when it comes to food - i.e. they get what's left.

Exactly so!

In the letter to VS give every detail you can - include any corroboration - a quick photo is great in such circumstances!
Be prepared to escalate if CS do not give a satisfactory reply.
If it's as described above, this needs sorting!

I have a friend who works for VS (not CC).

He is very clear that he knows his place when he is on one of his free flights (different obviously if he is paying!).

Even in UC he knows he will be last to get his meal choice etc. Knows not to stay at the bar if 'normal' pax are there / arrive when he is there and generally not be demanding of the staff in any way. If asked to move because of e.g. a paying pax who want to be nearer their wife etc he will say 'of course, no problem' even if it means he gets a worse seat.

Any other behaviour other than this is strictly not on. In fact wasn't there are TR which mentioned a moaning staff member who wasn't allowed in UC and moaned about it? There were a fair few comments about that!.

I dont have a problem with CC having a chat to their friends etc but it should not impinge on the service given to paying pax (no matter what cabin they are in).

as already said, without the paying pax there would be no airline to give them staff flights and I think some staff need to remember that !

Hi

You will get the same reply I got

'Sir you're meal is non-contractual, our contract is to get you from A to B'

To be honest write in it is always worth doing but these days they dont give a s..t

747 fine however we're not really talking about contractual issues here we're talking about preferential treatment of non-revenue versus revenue customers. this really comes under the category of customer relations and public image. It really should have been raised at the time with the FSM but it might cause them to send another memo around so who knows...

Firstly, this is an appalling example of blatantly looking after friends or family to the detriment of fare paying passengers[V][V] I know this has come up before, but in recent times I had gained the impression that things had moved on within VS and that discretion had become the order of the day.

Don't get me wrong, I fully accept and agree that preferential fares are available to staff and friends but this should not extend to preferential treatment[:(!]

Write to VS and if they come back with some boiler plate reply, keep at it and press home the unacceptable behaviour of the crew member who was 'sponsoring' the two men sitting in the crew seats.

Keep us all posted

buns

Without knowing the exact details its impossible to say what happened. However it would appear you got a mixture of Upper and possibly economy food. Im almost certain staff would not be served a W meal before a passenger. The tray they were using could be just a blank one we have loaded in the galley and branded PE. They most likey got a J meal as that is all that was left as it is the only cabin that is over catered. W is over catered so hopefully everyone gets their first choice of meal. This food is then used in Y as they are undercatered to include the W class food. ie if Y as 380 pax they will load 360 meals however W will have been over catered by 20 meals to accomodate this. There is often only 2-3 meals left after the service on a LGW/MAN flight. LHR usually has more of a buffer as there are more no shows on these routes so catering is harder to have so tight. As for why you didnt get a tray sometimes a wine glass smashes or one gets dropped and we only have the EXACT number loaded so we have to improvise. Yes this could have been explained better to you but im sure they were trying to get you as close to the meal you wanted as possible. I have Never seen staff served before passengers so find that unlikley.

The only part that really confused me was the economy style cheese and crackers? These do not really exist anymore. I think it is more likely you had cheese and crackers out of the crew food.

quote:Originally posted by JoeyVS
Without knowing the exact details its impossible to say what happened. However it would appear you got a mixture of Upper and possibly economy food. Im almost certain staff would not be served a W meal before a passenger.

The only item which was possibly Upper was the bowl of salad.
Whatever the staff were served, they were served it well before I was served.


quote:The tray they were using could be just a blank one we have loaded in the galley and branded PE. They most likey got a J meal as that is all that was left as it is the only cabin that is over catered.

So you think it is right for staff to be given a J meal while a PE fare-paying passengers was given whatever the FA could cobble together? If J is over catered, why was I not given a J meal?


quote:W is over catered so hopefully everyone gets their first choice of meal.

So how come I didn't get any PE meal, let alone my first choice?


quote: but im sure they were trying to get you as close to the meal you wanted as possible.

'As close to the meal' I wanted? I just wanted the PE meal that was included in my fare and that my fellow passengers in PE were given. It wasn't 'close' at all, it was - as I've said before - quite obviously just what the FA could cobble together!

quote:[/quote]

quote:Originally posted by JoeyVS
I have Never seen staff served before passengers so find that unlikley.


You can find it as unlikely as you wish.
I have no reason to lie.
There were 2 people sitting in crew seats who were served before me.

I fully expect to either receive no response from Virgin or to be fobbed-off with some worthless explanation.
I do not expect to be called a liar by a member of their staff in an online forum!

quote:Originally posted by Galley Guy

The only part that really confused me was the economy style cheese and crackers? These do not really exist anymore. I think it is more likely you had cheese and crackers out of the crew food.


Forgot economy don't get these any more.
All I know is it wasn't the branded cheese which was on the PE trays.

So maybe I was given crew food while they ate from Upper ...?!!

quote:Originally posted by wraf137
quote:Originally posted by JoeyVS
I have Never seen staff served before passengers so find that unlikley.


You can find it as unlikely as you wish.
I have no reason to lie.
There were 2 people sitting in crew seats who were served before me.

I fully expect to either receive no response from Virgin or to be fobbed-off with some worthless explanation.
I do not expect to be called a liar by a member of their staff in an online forum!


Joey is not calling you a liar, IMHO - he is simply stating fact.
I, for one, welcome his input and his help.

All airlines regularly receive large numbers of 'complaints' - many of these are are simply attempts to gain some form of compensation - many of these are known to be false; to be fraudulent.

I am NOT saying that your complaint is false or fraudulent.
Neither am I calling you a liar!
But how can anyone differentiate between your claim and the many false claims?

What I am saying is that most airlines will find most such claims as 'unlikely' exactly as JoeyVS states. The only action they can reasonably take, without some evidence, is some ex gratia award of a few thousand miles. Which you might take as a fob-off.

If they have evidence then an airline needs to take action - they actually do need to know - but what action? I am sure most would agree that a senior member of staff should not be dismissed or disciplined without some sort of definite proof or corroboration.

However I am sure such claims are logged and filed and would be relevant if any pattern becomes apparent.

VS need to know. Which is why I said in my original reply -
'give every detail you can - include any corroboration'
'Be prepared to escalate'
'If it's as described above, this needs sorting!'

quote:Joey is not calling you a liar, IMHO - he is simply stating fact.
I, for one, welcome his input and his help.


Whilst I do generally appreciate people's input, on this occasion I find it insulting rather than helpful. It smacks of Joey 'toeing the party line' for his company.

And when someone very clearly states that they believe what I've said to be 'unlikely' - in my book, they don't believe me, therefore they're calling me a liar.

I'm seeking nothing from Virgin except an explanation.
In fact, as I don't really expect to get that, all I was actually doing was drawing the situation to their attention in the hope it wouldn't happen to anyone else.
It isn't acceptable. It does need sorting. And that can't happen unless they're told about it.

But if the attitude of their staff is that it probably didn't happen, there's not much chance of anything being done about.

I have travelled in Y and not been able to eat the only option left (a veggie phase!), but I was not offered, not did I expect to be offered, food from J. In the circumstances, the member of cabin crew probably felt that they did the best they could in providing a meal to you.

It sounds as if some passengers were being indiscreet and it would have been a good idea to have mentioned this at the time, but I know that that can be difficult to do. The most likely explanation is that someone didn't follow correct company procedure, which leaves the possibility of the member of staff who was responsible for the people on the jumpseat being disciplined formally or even being dismissed. I would hate that to happen as a result of something I'd said (but perhaps I'm too soft!!).

I'm sorry that you were not able to get the meal you wanted and that the service fell short of your expectations; that's always disappointing.

EC

quote:Originally posted by wraf137
quote:Joey is not calling you a liar, IMHO - he is simply stating fact.
I, for one, welcome his input and his help.


And when someone very clearly states that they believe what I've said to be 'unlikely' - in my book, they don't believe me, therefore they're calling me a liar.

But if the attitude of their staff is that it probably didn't happen, there's not much chance of anything being done about.


Just because someone has said that it is 'unlikely' doesn't mean that they don't believe and therefore calling you a liar. 'Unlikely' doesn't mean that it never happens and does allow for an element of doubt. Every so often there is a trip report when a passenger describes an incident, just as you have done, which clearly should not have happened. These could also have been described as 'unlikely' because they may have been outside standard operating procedures, but happen they did just as it did in your case.

I believe you did right in bringing it to the attention of Customer Services as my belief is that if they don't know about it, they can't fix it.

I would however like to play devil's advocate with something you wrote in your original post. You presumed that the two men sitting on the crew seats were crew or related to crew. It's fair to presume that but all it can be is a presumption. On my last flight from Dubai UC was seriously oversold and they were looking for volunteers to downgrade. The flight ended up with two passengers sitting on the jump seats for the flight and the crew went out of their way to make sure the flight was as pleasant as possible for them given that they were deprived of all the creature comforts of a regular seat. Perhaps this was true of these two gentlemen?

HL

I know where you are coming from here, but I am swayed by the comment:
quote:certainly one seemed to be travelling with a crew member who may have been the FSM

In the past we have all seen the situation where it is clear that the passenger is either crew or crew related through the obvious way 'extra' attention is given and this, I thought, had diminished in recent times.

I do sincerely hope that Customer Services sits up and takes heed of this as, if it is the case that the FSM is involved, then, to my mind, it is a serious issue which VS has to make a stand on to set an example.

buns

I've received the following response from VS today:

'I understand that you were disappointed as you were unable to get your choice of meal on the outbound flight. I've noted that that the crew were unable to offer you a choice of Premium Economy meals only able to offer you a beef meal from the Economy cabin. I appreciate how frustrating this must have been for you, especially as you saw them offering other passengers something to have from the Upper Class cabin.

The flight is catered according to the number of passengers travelling in each cabin. It would appear that there was a discrepancy in the number of meals calculated for the Premium Economy cabin and sufficient meals weren't loaded this time. This certainly isn't the kind of experience we'd want you to have.

Normally we are able to meet the requirements of all our passengers and usually get our numbers right. We use outside caterers to prepare our meals for us, but we don't want our standards to slip. We take this kind of feedback seriously and so I've forwarded your feedback to our catering team, so that they can take them into consideration when planning future menus and adjust their calculations.'

The issue of the 2 occupants of the crew seats being given preferential treatment has not been addressed at all. It just refers to 'other passengers' being offered something from Upper Class.

I have replied, pointing out that this isn't simply a catering problem, it's a personnel and customer services issue, and asking them to review it further.

quote:I would however like to play devil's advocate with something you wrote in your original post. You presumed that the two men sitting on the crew seats were crew or related to crew. It's fair to presume that but all it can be is a presumption. On my last flight from Dubai UC was seriously oversold and they were looking for volunteers to downgrade. The flight ended up with two passengers sitting on the jump seats for the flight and the crew went out of their way to make sure the flight was as pleasant as possible for them given that they were deprived of all the creature comforts of a regular seat. Perhaps this was true of these two gentlemen?


The reason I believe they were crew or related was partly where they were sitting. But also that I had seen one of the men sitting with a group of uniformed VS crew in the airport terminal. He appeared specifically to be with a crew member wearing a different uniform, hence I thought that might be the FSM. During the flight I saw this crew member visit him and I heard them arranging where to meet once they'd gone through Immigration.

That sounds like one of those annoying replies, where they repeat your problem, say sorry and that they have forwarded it on to the reliant department. It is just a standard format reply, and doesn't do anything to please the complaint imo. This is usually the case when an email is sent to customer services where it is dealt with by people who aren't based in the UK!

I would always write a complaint for the attention of SRB and send it to Chorley. That has always resulted in a personal reply from 'one of his assistants' and I have always been satisfied with their answers and compensation (if any was due).

Neil