V-Flyer

Well it's getting to that time of year (330 days ahead) when we start looking at our options for next year's snowbird flights.
So I check VS: Shock! Horror! Almost all flights are gone already! Not only high prices but a string of NO FLIGHTS!
Same right through Sept. & Oct.:

So I check BA - wide open and at least £200 cheaper even before I apply my 10% shareholder discount!

So I turn to my partner - Looks like we are flying BA next year - and for only £3 extra we can fly from Newcastle instead of MAN.

But then I start to think.
Surely VS ops. aren't so stupid to have taken off most of their MAN flights or substituted Cessna for their B744s....

BA have BASSA working against them - VS have their IT!
So I check ExpertFlyer - VS is wide open on all flights!

Does no-one at VS take any look at their booking system after IT get their hands on it?
I see they are advertising for some fancy-named IT guy - perhaps you just need someone who checks their work before they make it live! !

VS bookings have been showing this for some days now - how many bookings have been lost? Over on TheDibb there are constant comments about how much better BA are for flights to the Mouse.
It seems we have been pointing out IT errors for months - would anyone in the Office care to comment?

Edit - the penny has just dropped:
It's not IT!
Virgin have substituted their B744s - no more UC flights except on a few days - even by the end of the year.

So we will probably go BA!

Totally agree, Bill.

I would hate to think how many millions of pounds the inept IT and phone systems at VS have cost them over the years. n(

At least they have tried to do something positive by bringing the call centre to Wales. y) Now it is time to bring the booking system into the 21st century.

I bet whoever the senior exec was that made the decision to gaffer tape their systems, instead of completely overhauling them, and making them fit for purpose, still got his (or her) huge performance bonus. B)

Nick

Nick - my apologies - to you as well as VS IT!
My edit came too late.

It's now another branch of VS that are trying to kill off MAN.

You only realise the extent of the MAN UC cuts when you attempt to make a booking.
And of course they anticipate the shortage by increasing their prices over BA!

Not just their IT, Bill. It's their prices too.

I've just booked with BA - I've saved upwards of £500 on a family holiday - via same airport (we've got flights from NCL in the package from BA), same hotel, same room type, same car group as with Virgin (and that's after my ff discount was supposedly taken into account...).

Hmmm...

It had been a nightmare trying to book MCO out of MAN next year, I have ended up having to fly in to MIA and back from JFK.

As Mandy points out, VS can really annoy customers with their pricing.
The LGW-MCO flights in Oct.'11 are £225 a seat less than the MAN-MCO.
BA only charge £60 for a regional connection.

I don't mind paying more for extra service - but not for cuts!

Bill S wrote:As Mandy points out, VS can really annoy customers with their pricing.
The LGW-MCO flights in Oct.'11 are £225 a seat less than the MAN-MCO.
BA only charge £60 for a regional connection.

I don't mind paying more for extra service - but not for cuts!

I had exactly the same when I booked MCO flights the other week. Even with a BA domestic return flight and a LGW hotel for 1 night, it's still cheaper for me to fly in and out of LGW than MAN. Just crazy!!

but I'll lay good odds that the flights will be full though.

Darren Wheeler wrote:but I'll lay good odds that the flights will be full though.

And you'd still win! They are very rarely not full!

Virgin are treating MAN/MCO as a cash cow at the moment - and to a certain extent they are getting away with it while BA is still beset with Union problems, but this is not going to last.

Unfortunately Virgin are doing massive long-term damage to the brand - you cannot charge more AND offer a worse service - just check out the opinions on another site.

Pages and pages of "We'll never fly Virgin again"; "We always used to fly Virgin but now only look at BA"; "Unless it was really cheap I would never go Virgin again"

Customer loyalty can only be abused so far - then it comes back to bite you!

Bill S wrote:

Darren Wheeler wrote:but I'll lay good odds that the flights will be full though.

Unfortunately Virgin are doing massive long-term damage to the brand - you cannot charge more AND offer a worse service - just check out the opinions on another site.



Customer loyalty can only be abused so far - then it comes back to bite you!

Could not agree more strongly ! Taking a slightly different tack, we have just returned from our second MAN- MCO trip of the year. Not only have we had our baggage allowance more than halved since the first trip this year but we had the utter irritation and downright inconvenience of a remote stand departure from MAN. VS, this just 'aint good enough, we were leaving the remote stand on buses alongside PAX from operators such as Thomas Cook, Thomson Etc. Nothing wrong with their operations as they are, dare I say it Low Cost Airlines, you get what you pay for I know that but surely VS are...... Hang on perhaps thats the direction they want to head.
Baggage reductions and remote stands one year, paying a quid to go for a pee in flight the next v( you may laugh but...........
My custom has remained firmly with VS over the past ten years or so but in these "austere" times, as the airlines keep reminding us when reducing services Etc, that endure, they have to remember that we still have choices as customers and I rather suspect that more and more of us will be looking a little harder at the "oppostion" in future.

NOC

I'm pretty sure that aircraft stands are allocated by the airports airfield operations department so you can't really blame Virgin for being on a remote stand when you travelled...

VSSCC wrote:I'm pretty sure that aircraft stands are allocated by the airports airfield operations department so you can't really blame Virgin for being on a remote stand when you travelled...

Mmmm, I wonder how often it happens to BA, Continental, Singapore Etc ?

Which class of travel has meant you have has your luggage allowance MORE than halved? Okay Y has gone from 2 to 1 bag, but that is only half and the other 1 classes remain the same.

As for being on a remote stand, it isn't just MAN, we were put on a remote stand at LHR when we returned from SFO on 747 in May. As already said, a lot of that is out of VS's hands.

nowt ont clock wrote:

VSSCC wrote:I'm pretty sure that aircraft stands are allocated by the airports airfield operations department so you can't really blame Virgin for being on a remote stand when you travelled...

Mmmm, I wonder how often it happens to BA, Continental, Singapore Etc ?

I suspect quite a lot. If you want to blame anyone, blame the person who designed T2 at MAN. It's well known that the gates at T2 are simply too close together meaning only 1 or 2 wide-bodies can actually park up on stand at any one time. It's a case of first come first served for arriving A/C into T2 and getting stands.

This is also why in it's current state, you will never see an A380 at T2 so if VS do ever get these, they will have to follow EK and move to another terminal.

I've also had a remote stand at MAN for several BD flights arriving at T3 too.

The fees and charges made by the airport depend upon usage of facilites.
As we know last year, VS opted for remote stands at MAN to save money.
That was a particular annoyance when it was again MAN customers who suffered.

That said, I understand VS now have an arrangement for a stand at the terminal. Problems arise if they have too many aircraft there at a particular time due to delays or diversions.

MAN has lower landing fees, parking fees and charges, it has shorter flight times than from LGW (how often do London flights overfly MAN & indeed GLA?), no Clubhouse and generally higher loads. They also have lower crew costs (much lower turnover costs and fewer promotions).

Yet they charge more.

Neil - remember they also reduced the max. luggage weight from 32 to 23kgs and tightened up on sports equip.

It's still 32kg for UC Pax, Bill.

Neil wrote:It's still 32kg for UC Pax, Bill.

Shsh! I am trying to keep that about-face quiet!

mitchja wrote:

nowt ont clock wrote:

VSSCC wrote:I'm pretty sure that aircraft stands are allocated by the airports airfield operations department so you can't really blame Virgin for being on a remote stand when you travelled...

Mmmm, I wonder how often it happens to BA, Continental, Singapore Etc ?

I suspect quite a lot. If you want to blame anyone, blame the person who designed T2 at MAN. It's well known that the gates at T2 are simply too close together meaning only 1 or 2 wide-bodies can actually park up on stand at any one time. It's a case of first come first served for arriving A/C into T2 and getting stands.

This is also why in it's current state, you will never see an A380 at T2 so if VS do ever get these, they will have to follow EK and move to another terminal.

I've also had a remote stand at MAN for several BD flights arriving at T3 too.

Neil,
I'm not too worried about getting tied up with whose fault it is or isn't and take onboard your points , I merely point out that with the reduction in baggage allowance and the remote stand issue still rumbling on leaving the customer with an overall lower travel experience, people may take a harder look at the opposition.



Regards,

NOC

I had exactly the same problem when looking at flights from LGW-MCO in econ and PE. Seemed like there were no flights from about June onwards!

It's been suggested that rather than say "No flights", put "No Seats"

Bill S wrote:Neil - remember they also reduced the max. luggage weight from 32 to 23kgs and tightened up on sports equip.

Well I for one am glad they tightned up the sports allowances and in my opinion they should get rid of it completly and include it in the 'normal' allowance.

I can't take 4 bags with me on UC yet am allowed too if the 4th is a golf bag or skis. Hardly fair is it?

@TB
I'm with you on the sports equip.
The extra £32 each way for golf bag would be quite reasonable.

I don't really have a real problem with any of the checked luggage amounts - you can always pay the extra - but that does smack of LCC rather than full-service airline. The original VS proposals were unacceptable IMHO.

The hand luggage (other than in UC) is a much bigger issue if you carry camera equipment. BA allow considerably more!
I can understand the safety argument with overweight bags but there is no way that I would put cameras, lenses and my Zeiss binos. into the hold!
With BA I can use nice padded cases - actually much safer than the alternatives forced by VS.

I think it is a shame that BA don't start flying direct from MAN. I think they would do well with VS going downhill. We don't have much choice of direct flights, VS or charter, and charter of course you can only go for 2 weeks, and not all go in winter I think.

We did go BA with the internal flight last year and it went very well, but it is so much longer with the stay in LGW. We would do it again, but not the first choice. If they went from LHR then perhaps as we would drive down. Also, it is looking like next year if we want UC/Club we will have to go south somehow anyway.