V-Flyer

Hi all,

My folks are booked to fly back from Orlando to Manchester on VS76 on the 23rd Sept. They had booked their seats both outbound and inbound about a month ago, received confirmation of allocated seats for both legs. Both legs were in Economy.

Just before their outbound I went over to help them do their online check-in, to find the return flight VS76 had a "change of flight status" on it. Looking at the detail, there was NO change, the timings were the same, the aircraft, airport etc. etc.

However Virgin had removed the seats they had allocated (two next to the window). When checking again, there was very little choice apart from a couple of seats in the middle right at the back of the plane.

What I find atrocious is that Virgin NEVER contacted my parents to warn them of this seat allocation change, even though they had their address, mobile number, e-mail address and they are both Flying Club members.

When my dad rang to complain the person at the end of the line said at the end of the day there's nothing he can do about it apart from give them ttwo seats in the middle of the plane they never wanted, nor asked for in the first place. He tried to fob them off saying the type of aircraft had changed, until I told him otherwise...

The I told my dad to ask for "Steve Ridgway"s number to see what reaction that got...

Anyway to cut a long story short, very poor customer relations from Virgin. If I hadn't done the online check-in with them, they would have never know their seats had been cancelled until tthe return flight some 3 weeks later.

Anyone else had this problem?

This subject is becoming tiresome...

Firstly, no passenger ever reserves a specific seat. These are always subject to change at any point until (and sometimes after) boarding is complete. You reserve a flight from point A to point B on a given date. IFE, seat numbers etc don't form part of the contract.

Second, there is no way Virgin or any otter airline would contact passengers for seat allocation changes. It will never happen.

If you want a seating policy to really complain about, book BA and pay up to £60 per person per sector to 'reserve a seat' that might still change anyway.

All you can do is check when OLCI opens for the return journey as only 60% of seats are available for pre-request anyway with the remainder released up at OLCI (or a couple of hours before but this does not always happen).

Being a member of FC (you don't say what level) gives NO priority over seat requests (which your parents had, not bookings). As to contacting Steve Rideway or his office - I'd save that for when something really important goes wrong!

Sorry but this happens day in day out in the airline world and people need to roll with it.

As Clarkey says all VS has to do is get you from A to B and anything else is non contractual.

Strange, the Virgin person at the other end of the line stated that we SHOULD have been told, and obviously something had gone majorly wrong with the system.

Apologies for it being 'tiresome', but quite important to some people.

Strange, the Virgin person at the other end of the line stated that we SHOULD have been told, and obviously something had gone majorly wrong with the system.

Personally I find that comment rather odd as it is totally against the normal procedures operated by Virgin Atlantic. A seat can be 'requested' in advance on the seat plan but it is not a guarantee you will be allocated into that seat when checking- in. That applies to whichever travel class you choose.

No seat is 'yours' until you are actually sitting in it with the seat belt sign 'on'. Prior to that you can be moved at the descretion of the cabin crew. Even a BA paid for seat is not 100% guaranteed. A friend of mine recently got a refund on a 'booked and paid for' seat because BA needed her seat for another passenger.

The VS seating policy system, whereby you 'request' a certain seat, normally works well but changes occur for numerous reasons and then perceieved problems get sorted out during the checkin process.

TissieSaffie wrote:Strange, the Virgin person at the other end of the line stated that we SHOULD have been told, and obviously something had gone majorly wrong with the system.

Apologies for it being 'tiresome', but quite important to some people.

The person at the end of the phone was wrong and probably trying to placate you. There is no system to inform you or anyone of changes in seat requests given that they are just that - requests! The only time you can be sure of your seat request is when you are sitting in it and the plane is taxiing.

With regard to contacting about changes in seat requests, if you look on this site there are plenty of complaints that VS do not email about changes in flight times even though they have the contact details. That, to my mind, is more important than a seat request but for various reasons VS do not email passengers of that. These include the fact that passengers book by various alternatives such as travel agents and third party sites such as Expedia and they are notified; people booking directly with VS are notified by the Manage my Booking site.

You have not mentioned your parents' status as Flying Club members but unless they are in the very top VIP tier of FC, that carries only a limited amount of weight. As a Flying Club Gold member I still have not always been guaranteed my seat request

In fairness to the OP I actually think that VS do mislead passengers when it comes to the infamous seat 'reservations'. OK many of us 'in the know' folk here on V-Flyer know only too well that seats are not in fact 'reserved' rather they are 'requested'. Why then in heaven's name do VS lead passengers to believe they actually have seat reservations? It would not surprise me at all if the agent said what he said to the OP. Even on the VS website they publish big bold banners that actually state 'seat reservations' - they even publicly apologise for a recent technical error they had involving PE seat reservations(or should I say requests )...."due to a technical error many passengers who had reserved their seats were unseated"....as per http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb/pa ... /index.jsp

In conclusion I absolutely empathise with the OP and, had it not been for VF, I would very much be under the impression that these were reservations and not requests.

Thanks
James

When you lose your seat "request" due to a supposed aircraft change but find it to be the same config, that niggles.

VA don't appear to have issues contacting customers to try and sell them flight upgrades

I assume those that think this topic is tiresome travel on their own and not with a family of 5/6. Try telling the kids that the family won't be sitting together because the random seat allocator has changed the seats requested 11 months ago.

A couple of years ago flying in economy, my partner and I reserved our seats, checked in online 24 hours before, only to arrive at the airport to find we were sitting apart.

I asked the check in agent if we could sit together, especially as my partner has a fear of flying and she informed us that the flight was full and the only seats together would be the exit seats. I paid for these (can't remember how much) we boarded the plane, took our seats and I took a look around to find plenty of available seats, many of these in pairs. In fact, there must have been 50 odd spare seats!

I empathise too and feel the system could be improved, although I do take on board the complicated logistics and planning from VS point. I can easily see how passengers get frustrated

This subject is becoming tiresome...

Firstly, no passenger ever reserves a specific seat. These are always subject to change at any point until (and sometimes after) boarding is complete. You reserve a flight from point A to point B on a given date. IFE, seat numbers etc don't form part of the contract.

I can understand that for operational reasons they do some times have to alter seat requests. But, given the amounts of complaints made about seats changing that appear here, it's clear that this is one thing that people feel strongly about.

Miss G wrote:I can understand that for operational reasons they do some times have to alter seat requests. But, given the amounts of complaints made about seats changing that appear here, it's clear that this is one thing that people feel strongly about.

That is because people wrongly assume it is a reservation and not a request.

There is plenty of information on both the VS site and many many other forum sites on the net about this, yet many people choose not to spend a bit of time actually researching and looking in to everything.

It is those same people who are however happy to spend ages moaning and complaining about it, managing to find sites like this to moan about it on.

As others have said, it you want a guaranteed seat, go pay BA £60, or one of the charters £20/30pp just to ensure you are sat next to each let alone choose an actual seat. We will all have something to moan about if VS start charging for this service.

Neil.

From the t & c's

5.4 Seating

We will endeavour to honour advance seating requests, however, we cannot guarantee any particular seat. We reserve the right to assign or reassign seats at any time, even after boarding of the aircraft. This may be necessary for operational, safety or security reasons

sickbag wrote:I assume those that think this topic is tiresome travel on their own and not with a family of 5/6. Try telling the kids that the family won't be sitting together because the random seat allocator has changed the seats requested 11 months ago.

When you got on the plane and sat down, were you still split up?

I've got some sympathy with the OP here as well. Easy to say that there are resources avaliable to find out the harsh reality of what a request actually is, but it is nonetheless very easy to be lulled into thinking that it is actually a reservation when on the VS site - I made that mistake myself long ago.

I've had the luxury of benefiting from the collective wisdom of the people on this site over the past few months, but I think we have to be a bit more understanding to those newcomers that are less clued up here.

Neil wrote:

Miss G wrote:I can understand that for operational reasons they do some times have to alter seat requests. But, given the amounts of complaints made about seats changing that appear here, it's clear that this is one thing that people feel strongly about.

That is because people wrongly assume it is a reservation and not a request.

There is plenty of information on both the VS site and many many other forum sites on the net about this, yet many people choose not to spend a bit of time actually researching and looking in to everything.

It is those same people who are however happy to spend ages moaning and complaining about it, managing to find sites like this to moan about it on.

As others have said, it you want a guaranteed seat, go pay BA £60, or one of the charters £20/30pp just to ensure you are sat next to each let alone choose an actual seat. We will all have something to moan about if VS start charging for this service.

Neil.

As I said, I understand the ins and outs, and I've seen the responses to many many many many of the other threads of this nature. My point is, people feel strongly about it, and clearly feel the need to vent about it.

What Ratechaser has said probably sums it up in a better way than I can say it.

ratechaser wrote:I've had the luxury of benefiting from the collective wisdom of the people on this site over the past few months, but I think we have to be a bit more understanding to those newcomers that are less clued up here.

Well said -- I very much agree.

The anonymity of internet forums sometimes makes perfectly reasonable people forget all their emotional intelligence.

All the OP wants is a bit of sympathy and it is perfectly possible to express this whilst also pointing out that seat allocations are not guaranteed, etc.

I think that sometimes we forget that an awful lot of people don't feel terribly happy about flying, and they are anxious about seating (especially in Economy) for all kinds of legitimate reasons. Many people will have no idea that frequent flyer forums exist to provide information on this kind of thing. It simply won't have occurred to them. It's hard to react to things you don't know you don't know...

End of sermon!

So, to TissieSaffie: I'm sorry this has happened, and I know how annoying and upsetting it can be. In your situation I would tell your parents to get to the airport in good time on the return trip, and ask for better seating at check-in. If they are polite and friendly, they will maximise their chances. In the future it's worth remembering that seat allocations are provisional and they can and do change (as the Virgin website does make very clear) -- it's always worth checking your booking every now and then to check that all is OK.

Hope they have a good flight back.

Well said -- I very much agree.

The anonymity of internet forums sometimes makes perfectly reasonable people forget all their emotional intelligence.

All the OP wants is a bit of sympathy and it is perfectly possible to express this whilst also pointing out that seat allocations are not guaranteed, etc.

I think that sometimes we forget that an awful lot of people don't feel terribly happy about flying, and they are anxious about seating (especially in Economy) for all kinds of legitimate reasons. Many people will have no idea that frequent flyer forums exist to provide information on this kind of thing. It simply won't have occurred to them. It's hard to react to things you don't know you don't know...

End of sermon!

With all due respects to what is written above, firstly no-one needs to belong to a 'flying forum' to understand the policy relating to 'seat requests' when booking an airline ticket. This is written into the terms & conditions of the ticket sale. The truth is alot of people don't bother to read the t&c's. I personally learnt the hard way the need to do that!

Yes people do get anxious about flying and also it would be wonderful to know that once we've booked our ticket we do actually know the seat number we will be allocated to (like at a footie match or concert) but airlines do not operate like this for numerous reasons. I personally get really stressed out worrying if we (family of six) will get seated together.

This forum is very kind and considerate (unlike many others which spring to mind). The Moderators do not tolerate any agression or personal attack. I don't regularly post week after week but I just like to 'hang' around reading with interest what is being said. I usually click on most days and I've never thought any of the replies were given in a hostile manner.

In life, some people misinterpret what is being said because it was not what they wanted to hear. I really do not think a sympathy vote was appropriate in this case. The OP asked "Anyone else had this problem?". The replies were given by pointing out the facts - sometimes the truth hurts as they say. I see cannot see what VS have done wrong, this time round!

My hubby and lads laugh when i spend ages reading all the terms and conditions, and re reading what i have booked, spellings,flight times etc.But you MUST read everything that relates to your booking. it is as clear as mud, that you only request a seat, You alone must keep checking your booking to see if it changes, and then sort out any problems. DONT WAIT untill it is time to fly.

All things taken into consideration, I find it a little disappointing to see any newbie's post being described as 'tiresome'. Not terribly welcoming, is it?

As others have mentioned above, nothing is set in stone, so check your booking regularly to see if your seats have been shifted. I do this about twice a week; Mrs V thinks this borders on OCD...

I think the problem is that we all understand perfectly well that our seats are just 'requests'. If there is a real plane change (not an imaginary one as sometimes happens) or we have to be reseated for safety, security or to accomodate special assistance passengers is all well and good. What really p1sses me off is what happened to me last week - booted out of 25HK on the A330 - left with 24HK and 20DF. When I called to ask why being told that it's a new policy blocking off row 25 to help VS seat families together at check in just seems plain daft when you unseat families who were sat together in the first place.

OK, apologies for the use of the word tiresome. It was a poor choice of word and partly borne out of the fact that I was a) zonked through too much work and b) on a train back from another dismal England performance last night.

I do however find that the endless 'help, my seat has changed/gone/been removed etc' threads are a bit of a grind, and perhaps the forum could be modified so these are all trapped in one place. This could be similar to the BA FlyerTalk format with the dashboards and the single threads for seating queries split by class of travel.

DarkAuror wrote:

sickbag wrote:I assume those that think this topic is tiresome travel on their own and not with a family of 5/6. Try telling the kids that the family won't be sitting together because the random seat allocator has changed the seats requested 11 months ago.

When you got on the plane and sat down, were you still split up?

Had to speak to 3 different people over 20 mins before be redirected to the ticketing desk who were able to sort in less than 5 minutes

The ground staff were rude and said we'd have to board the plane and ask other passengers if they'd mind moving!

clarkeysntfc wrote:perhaps the forum could be modified so these are all trapped in one place. This could be similar to the BA FlyerTalk format with the dashboards and the single threads for seating queries split by class of travel.

Whilst FT is a great resource, I like to think we are quite different to how the approach various aspects of running/modding our site.

I am not a fan of having lots of large threads on the same subject as they become hard to follow and new posts can easily get lost in long running discussions. It is something the mods have discussed in the past and it was decided to stick to our current way of working.

We have a very friendly and helpful membership who I think are very good at replying to new members, even on repeated issues. Of course if someone gets frustrated with a repeat question, there is no requirement for them to post a reply and perhaps that is the better action to take at times.

Thanks,
Neil

To the OP - yes this has happened to me, and is frustrating I know, but just the way it is I'm afraid.

To be fare, VS will do their best at checkin - at least that's my experience, to get your parents seated together.

And, as others have said, you may be able to make new requests doing OLCI.

Good luck!

Yes the same thing happened to us travelling back from Vegas last year had requested seats 11 months before, and being with VH we knew we would be in the bubble, had requsted 79 A & C did OLCI got to the airport 5 hours before departure

The agents at check in said you have 70 A & C right near the toilets no way i said anything but those on the return trip especially if you want a nap with people constantly going to the loo v( She would not budge and hubby had to drag me away as i was willing to stand my ground for anything different :0

as i suspected in the end we got no sleep and people queing in our space for the loo not pleasant. Hubby had to admit in the end never again.