V-Flyer

I write this from the CH in terminal 3.

I have just been downgraded from UC to PE because VS have oversold the flight. What’s worse is that I was told I could only have a free flight or 40k FC miles. What I didn’t know until I signed on the dotted line is that I could of taken cash instead.

They now won’t change it. Do I have any legal rebuke here? I am really annoyed as I have arrived 5 hours before departure, it is my first flight I have ever booked in UC, I am going to be stuck in PE for 13 hours to Shanghai and all I can say is this is appalling service.

The CH is nice however. Right, I need a beer

i must admit in your situation I would be pretty p*****d off too.
which would you prefer, free flight (if its a return in UC then that would be my choice) miles or cash (if the flight is EC then i would balance that against how much cash).

if they didnt tell you cash was an option you may well have a claim for misrepresentation. i would go back, ask for whichever option you want and if denied get the persons name and tell them you will be calling them as a witness at the small claims court

morat121 wrote: I have arrived 5 hours before departure.

Sorry to hear that - must be very depressing especially on your first ever UC flight.

Given that you are very early for the flight, I'm surprised they have bumped you down. I thought that usually happened to the people who turned up at the last minute. ISTBC

I would speak (nicely) to the concierge in the CH and ask her to monitor the situation. Its not impossible that at T -60 mins there is not a full UC cabin and you just might get your rightful seat back.

Enjoy the CH and remember that PE is not all that bad - some folks will be doing the journey in economy.

Also, when on board, I would speak (nicely again) to the FSM (no one else) and explain your situation and ask if you can sit at the bar for an hour or so. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Thanks for the advice guys. Everyone is very apologetic and polite I must hope that somone doesnt show!

The return is only economy excluding sydney which is a shame. I think I would rather have the cash if I am honest. However, its not the end of the world but I was very much looking forward to the UC experience and have paid through the teeth for it!

Crap morning, amazing breakfast though!

morat121 wrote:I write this from the CH in terminal 3.

I have just been downgraded from UC to PE because VS have oversold the flight. What’s worse is that I was told I could only have a free flight or 40k FC miles. What I didn’t know until I signed on the dotted line is that I could of taken cash instead.

So are you saying they won't give you a refund between the 2 classes?? I was downgraded from UC to PE from JFK about 3 years ago and was given the difference in cash (back to my credit card) and miles as an apology.

-Steve

If it's any consolation, I personally prefer PE seats to UC seats. I did a flight from JNB to LHR which was actually enjoyable. However I understand your distress. Will you be allowed to use the bar on-board? Don't want to get your hopes up mind!

Sorry to hear you have been downgraded. But the Rules for a non-volunteered downgrade from Upper Class, is to downgrade straight to Economy, only a volunteered downgrade is supposed to go to Premium Economy. So you been fortunate there.

With a downgrade too, you will get the Free Return trip in Economy to anywhere except Sydney or the 40k miles as you mentioned, but also a refund for the difference in fare between the J ticket you paid and the price of the W ticket to the card which paid for your ticket.

Usually the crew will allow you to use the Bar and also sometimes will give you some of the J perks onboard, but i wouldnt expect them, Just speak to the crew nicely let them know the situation, and most of the time, if your nice to them they will go the extra mile for you.

Hope your flight is enjoyable, and you can look forward to the return in Upper Class!

Dan

There is some info contained about 'compensation' for being downgraded in this thread

See also Article 10

You are not entitled to any compensation per se but you are entitled to a refund of 75% of the ticket price for that leg.

Sounds like the 40k miles was compensation and not the refund.

I would challenge this with VS.

Hi morat - what a disaster ... and sounds like the ground staff have treated you appallingly in addition to the downgrade. You are entitled to a fare difference refund and you should retain the compensation. As others have said, talk to the concierge and monitor in case the situation changes, and if you don't get the appropriate answers simply take VS to court (small claims) - that'll make them cough up very quickly (note that VS can be maddeningly slow dealing with these situations).

I would not let up until you are satisfied, oh and ask for an upgrade for your return too!

Whilst the small claims court is an option (you can do it all on line, costs depend on the amount claimed and you don't need to have legal representation) it would be best if you first wrote formally to VS quoting Article Ten and stating how you were not made aware by staff of Article Ten and that you belived the 40k miles were compensation in addition to any other rights you have.

It also looks better for you that you gave VS an opprtunity to address the issue.

Give them a clear but reasonable deadline to respond (at least 14 days would be reasonable) and that you will consider legal action should a mutual settlement not be agreed. That shows you are serious but also reasonable in wanting a settlement.


As to the 'free' flight - someone posted on here a while ago the difficulties they had in redeeming the voucher (seats come from the award bucket) and that they still has to pay fuel surcharge etc.

Am really feeling for the OP here, what a damn shame.
Despite all the good advice on claiming etc.....its still a ball ache!

As laid back as l am trying to be about our forthcoming trip this is a worry l could well do without.
If VS bump us down, l shall be coming home.

How often does this kind of thing happen?

Gutted for you Morat! Some sound advice from Tonty - give VS a chance to right their wrong, then take them to the cleaners if they fail to satisfy you ):

Really sorry that this has happened on your first UCS experience n(

Hope your trip improves from now on in y)

Sorry to hear you have been downgraded. But the Rules for a non-volunteered downgrade from Upper Class, is to downgrade straight to Economy, only a volunteered downgrade is supposed to go to Premium Economy. So you been fortunate there.

Erm, well, that stinks. If you've paid for a product, you should be offered the next best thing, not the worst.

That is really unfortunate - I agree that you should keep in touch with the concierge in the hope a UC seat becomes available. Hope you enjoy the flight and VS look after you.

morat -- I am so sorry to hear this, I would be absolutely gutted too. What have you signed? Have you unknowingly waived your EU rights?

Martin wrote:Given that you are very early for the flight, I'm surprised they have bumped you down. I thought that usually happened to the people who turned up at the last minute. ISTBC

I agree -- this aspect of it puzzles me too. Had you checked in online, morat?

vsa380 wrote: But the Rules for a non-volunteered downgrade from Upper Class, is to downgrade straight to Economy, only a volunteered downgrade is supposed to go to Premium Economy. So you been fortunate there.

Seriously? :0

Out of interest which flight was this? I see the VS45 ran as a 346 again yet was scheduled to be a full 744. I wonder if that explains it?

ccarmock wrote:Out of interest which flight was this? I see the VS45 ran as a 346 again yet was scheduled to be a full 744. I wonder if that explains it?

well the OP said Shanghai which can only mean VS250 which is next to always an A346. As for 13 hours, it's usually 10.5 hours. The VS250 us strange in my opinion - either full or empty, rarely in between.

ah yes sorry I missed that little fact!

McMaddog wrote:

ccarmock wrote:Out of interest which flight was this? I see the VS45 ran as a 346 again yet was scheduled to be a full 744. I wonder if that explains it?

well the OP said Shanghai which can only mean VS250 which is next to always an A346. As for 13 hours, it's usually 10.5 hours. The VS250 us strange in my opinion - either full or empty, rarely in between.

There was a 'complaint' on the VS FB page that UC was full from the 22nd to 24th October. Not sure if there is some big event going on there but good that VS is managing to fly with a full UC Cabin !

Miss G wrote:

Sorry to hear you have been downgraded. But the Rules for a non-volunteered downgrade from Upper Class, is to downgrade straight to Economy, only a volunteered downgrade is supposed to go to Premium Economy. So you been fortunate there.

Erm, well, that stinks. If you've paid for a product, you should be offered the next best thing, not the worst.

at240 wrote:

vsa380 wrote: But the Rules for a non-volunteered downgrade from Upper Class, is to downgrade straight to Economy, only a volunteered downgrade is supposed to go to Premium Economy. So you been fortunate there.

Seriously? :0

Believe it or not, it is true, I used to be ground staff for Virgin until a few months ago and it states that in our training manual, We were also reminded of it a few times, but I never saw it actually happen, I think it tends to be one of the procedures that people draw a blind eye to.

The only reason I can think of for it being in place is to attract people to volunteer?

vsa380 wrote:

Miss G wrote:

Sorry to hear you have been downgraded. But the Rules for a non-volunteered downgrade from Upper Class, is to downgrade straight to Economy, only a volunteered downgrade is supposed to go to Premium Economy. So you been fortunate there.

Erm, well, that stinks. If you've paid for a product, you should be offered the next best thing, not the worst.

at240 wrote:

vsa380 wrote: But the Rules for a non-volunteered downgrade from Upper Class, is to downgrade straight to Economy, only a volunteered downgrade is supposed to go to Premium Economy. So you been fortunate there.

Seriously? :0

Believe it or not, it is true, I used to be ground staff for Virgin until a few months ago and it states that in our training manual, We were also reminded of it a few times, but I never saw it actually happen, I think it tends to be one of the procedures that people draw a blind eye to.

The only reason I can think of for it being in place is to attract people to volunteer?

Frankly - I think that is abismally bad. What a horrendous "policy" to have. And I realise the poster further up is probably techically right that the OP is "lucky" to have got PE in this case... but really?

Its basically saying that if Virgin over-sells and you "dare" not to volunteer your seat (or you are not even asked) you could go straight to economy. But if we oversell a flight and you do play nice we'll let you go to PE instead. Gee, thanks.

I'm not surprised staff turn a blind eye (and I'm glad that they do) but still... I'm not sure what to make of that. I honestly don't think I'd touch an airline ever again if they enforced a policy like that upon me in a scenario that is basically of their creation. Yuck, yuck, yuck.

I felt better about Virgin before I knew that to be honest.

You'll find most full service airlines do something similar so I'm afraid you have little choice. The positive side is that an involuntarily downgrade is very rare on routes where there is only one service a day. If you think about it LON-NYC wouldn't be a hardship to wait for the next one normally.

Oddly, I don't feel better knowing most airlines do it.

A ugly, punitive policy is an ugly, punitive policy - irrespective of who they copied it from.

But yes, my disgust would apply indescriminately to any other airline with a policy like that (were it to be enforced).

How many services does VS run between LHR and MIA again? Oh God...Please don't tell me this is another nighmare scenario for me to obsess about for the next few months.

I jest, of course.

This situation is simply unacceptable. How could they possibly "downgrade" your ticket? And then offer an economy return in exchange? Something seems off here, but at the least I would not give up and keep escalating the issue and document your communications in email only.