V-Flyer

Just wanted some advice from seasoned travellers on the best way to handle this.

Booked holiday to Disney with Virgin Holidays (frequent member card holder) 16mths ago. Family of 4, myself OH and 2 children aged 9 and 13 years. Booked economy on way out but PE on return leg (£295 each for upgrade). Reserved seats 180 days prior to flight.

On way out in check in queue was offered upgrade to PE for £200 each. As myself and OH hate flying we decided to upgrade. Paid for it at seperate counter then requeued to check in at PE line. 2 hours later!!! - had sold us 4 PE seats all in different places, 1 downstairs and 3 upstairs, none together and 2 were bulk heads upstairs which meant 1 child would have to sit on their own downstairs. Still wasn't sorted but went through security had less than 1 hour in V room (which OH was really looking forward to). At gate had to wait till all PE passengers were seated so they could try and get people to switch seats. Did get all 4 of us upstairs but OH and son sat in different rows. This was all really stressful and was left wondering why we had wasted £800.

Roll forward return. As I had booked PE 16 mths early and reserved seats at earliest time thought it would be ok. Get to check in to say they were overbooked by 1 seat and as I had a different surname to OH and children they thought I was on my own so downgraded me to economy (gave my seat to a silver card holder). Was offered 300 euros which I refused as this was less than the £295 I had paid to upgrade. Again this was very stressful (I got through I whole bottle of rescue remedy!!Lol) and my 9 year old was very upset.

I understand EU law says I will get 75% of the ticket price (I assume this is the full flight price not just the PE bit - I don't know what this is though as it doesn't break this down on my invoice).
I assume this is the minimum I should get? Can anyone advise me on the best way to handle my claim with Virgin and what sort of compensation I should expect
Thanks

An absolute disgrace n( v( n( . This is where it goes all wrong for VS. I would put your feelings and fact in an email to them describing the stress it caused for your family. Good luck y)

VS seem to be getting their rev man very wrong at the moment as this is about the third involuntary downgrade I read about on here in a matter of weeks.

As it's a Virgin Holidays booked package, you are going to have to deal with this through them as VS wont talk to you at all.

You will also have to push the 75% ticket refund, as EC261-2004 states that the airline has to refund you within 7 days as well. VS are notoriously slow when it comes to refunds.

In the case of downgrades there is no requirement for an airline to offer you compensation (though of course many do) though it sound slike they offered you 300 euro as compensation.

but this should be is in ADDITION to the article Ten provisions (75% of the fare difference).

No the 300 euro was instead of the 75% it was one or the other.

These involuntary downgrades really worry me.

My husband has a severe back condition which means he simply can't sit for long periods - no more than a couple of hours or so at most.

We always book UC either Z or G tickets so assume we would be targets for downgrading should the need arise. If this was the case we wouldn't be able to travel, so how would we go about trying to prevent being downgraded?

Do people only get bumped down if they haven't checked in online? I can't imagine how hacked off I'd be - one to be downgraded like that, but how much worse if you'd already checked in and therefore double-confirmed???

We flew to JFK in PE in April, and the check in lady said that it was "just as well we had done OLCI because they were downgrading people"

betsie wrote:......as I had a different surname to OH and children they thought I was on my own so downgraded me to economy (gave my seat to a silver card holder).

Sounds like VS were stretching the truth on this as well.

Does it not go on booking Ref? Surely you all were under the same booking ref so not sure how VS would think someone travelling on the same ref was on their own (twice I have had the opposite - been upgraded, as an Au, when Mrs S and Miss S were left at the back or in P/E. But we had different booking refs. Yes, I did try to stay with them, but it was a fait accompli).

I would be mightily hacked off and would be onto both VH and VS Customer Services and would not let it go.

Just one other thing re the outbound journey - I thought minors were not allowed to be more than one row back as per CAA Regs (I am sure it is something like they can only be separated from Parent / Guardian or whoever by, in the first instance, an aisle, and failing that only one row back / fwd). I appreciate they got you near enough together with the kind cooperation of other passengers, but would they not have known they were causing problems by allocating the seats that they did to you?

Re the comp - I believe it is 75% of the full fare not the diff. If it was the diff then an unscrupulous airline (!) would sell P/E over and over, downgrade most passengers to Y and still make a 'turn' of 25% .

betsie wrote:No the 300 euro was instead of the 75% it was one or the other.

I'd go back and challenge them on that one if I were you and specifically mention Article Ten of EU 261/2004

The payment should be 75% of the published fare not the difference between the cabin booked and the cabin flown in.

What, in this sort of situation does "published fare" mean - given the plethora of fares available at any one time...?

Does anyone know where I can get an email address of someone higher up in customer services or Virgin Holidays in general that I can contact.

betsie wrote:Does anyone know where I can get an email address of someone higher up in customer services or Virgin Holidays in general that I can contact.

Betsie - have you tried the Virgin Holidays team on Facebook? They are UK based and far better at resolving issues than the poor service from the Indian contact centre!

Thanks for that will try that route.

clarkeysntfc wrote:We flew to JFK in PE in April, and the check in lady said that it was "just as well we had done OLCI because they were downgrading people"

Will always bear that in mind......

catsilversword wrote:

clarkeysntfc wrote:We flew to JFK in PE in April, and the check in lady said that it was "just as well we had done OLCI because they were downgrading people"

Will always bear that in mind......

We were told the same a couple of years ago when flying to NYC at the start of autumn half term.

The one thing that has struck me about all the posts about involuntary downgrades is that there is no mention of OLCI

honey lamb wrote:The one thing that has struck me about all the posts about involuntary downgrades is that there is no mention of OLCI

I agree with HL on this one... this has never happened to me (thank god!...) but if it has anything to do with if you do OLCI you dont get downgraded I'll be fine and so will most of the V-Flyers on here do to the fact of all of us trying to get the converted SEQ1.... (which I have to admit I have not gotten yet...)

Mike

Let's be honest - OLCI should not be the way you "guarantee" what you paid for. That guarantee *should* be made on payment.

Yes, they overbook, but this is just bullish!t. OLCI *helps* the airline - their revenue management team are PAID to get the *right* number of bums on seats - and NOT to over-sell. Every now and then, they screw up (which, while frustrating for the passenger involved, happens) but the cost of that screw-up is the EU statutory penalty PLUS some compensation by way of the airline saying SORRY to the passenger.

The passenger should not have to chase for a monetary version of a "sorry, we f*'d up your holiday, which you paid for".
v( n(

Ghostrider79 wrote:

honey lamb wrote:The one thing that has struck me about all the posts about involuntary downgrades is that there is no mention of OLCI

I agree with HL on this one... this has never happened to me (thank god!...) but if it has anything to do with if you do OLCI you dont get downgraded I'll be fine and so will most of the V-Flyers on here do to the fact of all of us trying to get the converted SEQ1.... (which I have to admit I have not gotten yet...)

Mike

Nor me I think SEQ1 may be a figment of imagination 8D

preiffer wrote:Let's be honest - OLCI should not be the way you "guarantee" what you paid for. That guarantee *should* be made on payment.

Yes, they overbook, but this is just bullish!t. OLCI *helps* the airline - their revenue management team are PAID to get the *right* number of bums on seats - and NOT to over-sell. Every now and then, they screw up (which, while frustrating for the passenger involved, happens) but the cost of that screw-up is the EU statutory penalty PLUS some compensation by way of the airline saying SORRY to the passenger.

The passenger should not have to chase for a monetary version of a "sorry, we f*'d up your holiday, which you paid for".
v( n(

Totally agree - but isn't this always things seem to pan out, with a company trying to absolve itself of some of the responsibility? If a seat is bought and paid for (and always in advance, often, the airline has had the funds for months), it feels amoral to essentially sell it again... I know, I know, it ain't a-gonna change, but it still feels so wrong....

preiffer wrote:Let's be honest - OLCI should not be the way you "guarantee" what you paid for. That guarantee *should* be made on payment.

Yes, they overbook, but this is just bullish!t. OLCI *helps* the airline - their revenue management team are PAID to get the *right* number of bums on seats - and NOT to over-sell. Every now and then, they screw up (which, while frustrating for the passenger involved, happens) but the cost of that screw-up is the EU statutory penalty PLUS some compensation by way of the airline saying SORRY to the passenger.

The passenger should not have to chase for a monetary version of a "sorry, we f*'d up your holiday, which you paid for".
v( n(

Amen! well said.

Virgin (and most other Airlines I expect) just seem to react to these situations in such a horrid procedure-driven way - completely losing touch with the real human impacts and effects of what they have done and how completely devastating it can be for a passenger to lose their seat or not get what they paid for. And then to make matters worse it feels like you get a piece of paper shoved under your nose as quickly as possible to get you to sign a contract accepting their crappy offer.

That this stuff happens at all is an irritation to me but their handling of the situation makes it so much worse.

Frenchy78 wrote: how completely devastating it can be for a passenger to lose their seat or not get what they paid for.

I wouldn't say losing your pre-assigned seat or a downgrade could ever be described as devastating ?| upsetting, annoying, frustrating but there are far worse things in life.

clarkeysntfc wrote:

Frenchy78 wrote: how completely devastating it can be for a passenger to lose their seat or not get what they paid for.

I wouldn't say losing your pre-assigned seat or a downgrade could ever be described as devastating ?| upsetting, annoying, frustrating but there are far worse things in life.

Completely wrong - and its not for you to say how other people should feel about a downgrade situation.

I have been planning a holiday for myself and my partner for over a year now - due to fly out in April next year.

I hoarded miles for a long, long time... waited and waited for UC availability.

This is my partner's 40th birthday (the day we fly) and coincidently our 5 year anniversary.

My partner has never flown in business class before and is more excited than you could possibly imagine about the prospect of flying out in UC. I've flown on Virgin UC a few times and I myself am very excited about it and can't wait to show my other half the delights of travelling UC after such a long time spent planning and grafting to build up the miles.

So, how do you think I would feel if - after all of this - I got to the Airport and was involuntarily downgraded because Virgin had sold our seats to someone else?

Thats right... devastated.

I'm not that unusual in this respect. Not everyone gets to routinely travel in UC. For some, its a big deal. Looked forward to for a long, long time. And for many like me its a real effort to plan and achieve being able to do it on what is - for us - a very special occasion.

So yes - if it were to happen to me, in this situation I'm afraid my state of mind would almost certainly transcend "frustrated".

Frenchy78 wrote:

clarkeysntfc wrote:

Frenchy78 wrote: how completely devastating it can be for a passenger to lose their seat or not get what they paid for.

I wouldn't say losing your pre-assigned seat or a downgrade could ever be described as devastating ?| upsetting, annoying, frustrating but there are far worse things in life.

Completely wrong - and its not for you to say how other people should feel about a downgrade situation.

I have been planning a holiday for myself and my partner for over a year now - due to fly out in April next year.

I hoarded miles for a long, long time... waited and waited for UC availability.

This is my partner's 40th birthday (the day we fly) and coincidently our 5 year anniversary.

My partner has never flown in business class before and is more excited than you could possibly imagine about the prospect of flying out in UC. I've flown on Virgin UC a few times and I myself am very excited about it and can't wait to show my other half the delights of travelling UC after such a long time spent planning and grafting to build up the miles.

So, how do you think I would feel if - after all of this - I got to the Airport and was involuntarily downgraded because Virgin had sold our seats to someone else?

Thats right... devastated.

I'm not that unusual in this respect. Not everyone gets to routinely travel in UC. For some, its a big deal. Looked forward to for a long, long time. And for many like me its a real effort to plan and achieve being able to do it on what is - for us - a very special occasion.

So yes - if it were to happen to me, in this situation I'm afraid my state of mind would almost certainly transcend "frustrated".

For the record I've flown UC twice and never paid cash for anything other than Economy tickets upgrading by various means if possible.

I would be absolutely steaming if I was downgraded, but I will have to agree to disagree on use of the word devastated.