V-Flyer

The Sunday Telegraph is reporting that Virgin is to apply for the slots BA has to make available to competitors as part of the competition remedies of the purchase of bmi to launch a service to Moscow.

Aer Lingus is also applying for the slots for UK domestic services.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... throw.html

Just heard from the horses mouth here in Cancun.

Moscow would be good. And I imagine the Facebook wall might be a bit more "soothing" when they start comparing the service of VS against Aeroflot...

Hmm. Is BA being an evil genius?

They have to give up slots for domestic services to LHR.
EI get the slots and start EDI-LHR.
BA already codeshare with EI to Ireland, so the relationship exists to do the same on EDI-LHR.
BA then reduce their flights by the number of flights EI added.
There's still competition, of sorts, but EI feeds BA international/one world traffic.
BA then use the slots they've saved to launch more profitable routes.

VS will have to make a compelling case that there's more competition needed to Moscow (4 airlines including "BA-bmi" already) vs. BA's monopoly on EDI-LHR.
I don't think they will make that case.

VS have been here before, with no success, but the loss of BMI(BMA) may have changed that.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/213/ald9804.pdf

And VS did fly to Moscow, en-route to Japan but could only deposit at SVO, not collect.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forum ... ain/881624

I think Virgin will be successful in obtaining a slot pair for London-Moscow.

They should get good yields for a relatively short rotation and get good quality premium feed for their transatlantic network too.

Could be a route for the first 2 330's? Can't see there being much demand for Upper on a 3.5 hour flight.

Darren Wheeler wrote:Could be a route for the first 2 330's? Can't see there being much demand for Upper on a 3.5 hour flight.

Well... If they are also looking at the corporate market here, I'd be allowed to go upper to Moscow from London because of flight distance, and the same is probably true of other organisations. So may be best not to write off a 3 class service just yet.

Interesting question would be what TPs would be earned on this route. If you could still get 10/12 in UC for a round trip, this could also make that attractive to people that are a few TPs short of retaining AU status...

ratechaser wrote:
Interesting question would be what TPs would be earned on this route. If you could still get 10/12 in UC for a round trip, this could also make that attractive to people that are a few TPs short of retaining AU status...

Worth the inconvenience and cost of having to get a Russian visa though?

Mind do you need one if you are not going to leave the airport and are simply going to get back on the same plane?

Does 'Tier Point Run' translate into Russian?

tontybear wrote:Mind do you need one if you are not going to leave the airport and are simply going to get back on the same plane?

Would you want to risk NOT having one???

Remember, from the basement of The Lubyanka, you can see Siberia. :0

Well I wouldn't risk it Darren but then again I don't do TP/Miles runs either!

But I can quite easily see people not applying for visas when they need one.

How many passengers have to do last minute ESTA applications for the US at an airport internet cafe?

I could see this as a potentially lucrative route for VS.

The Upper Class Bar (and of course the Clubhouse in London) could prove a great draw on those russians who have been able to make modest fortunes in recent years

buns

buns wrote:I could see this as a potentially lucrative route for VS.

The Upper Class Bar (and of course the Clubhouse in London) could prove a great draw on those russians who have been able to make modest fortunes in recent years

buns

modest? surely an understament Mr B! ) ) )

Becareful on your next trip that Mrs B isn't whisked away from you by an oligarch and his modest millions !

Darren Wheeler wrote:Could be a route for the first 2 330's? Can't see there being much demand for Upper on a 3.5 hour flight.

BA has added First Class to one of its rotations and has always had good loads in Business Class. Plenty of money on this route!

SR was talking about Moscow back in August when I was sat next to him on a flight, said that they were also looking at Edinburgh as somewhere to operate services from. Also had a v interesting chat regards alliance/strategic partner plans.

Darren Wheeler wrote:Could be a route for the first 2 330's? Can't see there being much demand for Upper on a 3.5 hour flight.

Its a very high yielding route for BA- they send their 744's there (or did last year IIRC) and one of the criticisms of BD on the route was that the J product didn't cut the mustard for the kind of J passenger using the route. I think you may be pleasantly surprised at the demand for J on this route- rich Russians and all that.

Of course, as others pointed out, it has been on the VS radar before.

I stand corrected

I'd imagine lower overheads for VS too. No need for over-nighting crew. A simple in and back again.

simonallardice wrote:SR was talking about Moscow back in August when I was sat next to him on a flight, said that they were also looking at Edinburgh as somewhere to operate services from. .

:0 Edinburgh y) sounds great !!

David ^)

David wrote:
:0 Edinburgh y) sounds great !!

David ^)

Certainly was interesting, as I say, this was last August....we'll see. What was more interesting at the time was the reason he was on my flight, which was because he'd been in Atlanta discussing a potential partnership/alliance with Delta. Yep, Delta! However, said there was a similar discussion with Lufthansa which he described as much more attractive but more difficult. Guessing the difficulty coming from United in the *A....that said, United's animosity toward VS will soften considerably once the US/AA merger steams ahead, well, at least that's what I think.

Darren Wheeler wrote:Could be a route for the first 2 330's? Can't see there being much demand for Upper on a 3.5 hour flight.

I think -- but I may have misremembered -- that not only do BA now fly the 4-class 744 to Moscow, as has been pointed out, but also that they only just upgraded the route to longhaul config. This suggests there is a pretty bouyant market for premium fares.

Just looked on the BA tool and it shows SVO as having Club World rather than Club Europe.

As for TP's, given the 3.5 hour flying time, I'd imagine you'd be looking at roughly half of the normal amount per leg.

Upper 2 (3 for J,C,D)
PE 1 (2 for W,S)
Econ 0 (1 for Y,B,R,L,U,M)

Otherwise it'll be a cheap Blockbuster (Gold run).

Darren Wheeler wrote:Just looked on the BA tool and it shows SVO as having Club World rather than Club Europe.

As for TP's, given the 3.5 hour flying time, I'd imagine you'd be looking at roughly half of the normal amount per leg.

Upper 2 (3 for J,C,D)
PE 1 (2 for W,S)
Econ 0 (1 for Y,B,R,L,U,M)

Otherwise it'll be a cheap Blockbuster (Gold run).

But logically if you extend that, why does NRT only get you the same TPs as DXB, when it's about twice the flying time/miles...

VS seem to have adopted a single TP structure regardless of flight distance (and SYD isn't an exception as it's 2 legs bolted together), which is why I'm interested to see how they play this.

I been talking with the VS management, they are pretty keen on Moscow and think it will work very well. It looks like it's very much a goer. I agree, a very lucrative route and lots of money to be made, will see what the timings are.

I'm also wondering that with Aeroflot starting MIA services, there could be some good opportunity for some transfer business via LHR for their US flights as well.

Darren Wheeler wrote:Just looked on the BA tool and it shows SVO as having Club World rather than Club Europe.

As for TP's, given the 3.5 hour flying time, I'd imagine you'd be looking at roughly half of the normal amount per leg.

Upper 2 (3 for J,C,D)
PE 1 (2 for W,S)
Econ 0 (1 for Y,B,R,L,U,M)

Otherwise it'll be a cheap Blockbuster (Gold run).

Don't BA operate to DME and not SVO? Or do they do both?