V-Flyer

I know this has been discussed in the past, but following quite a few recent flights I am a little confused by the fleet changes at Heathrow.

I understand from this site that the 330 and 787 are replacing 343 and 346 as the leases expire. Will any 346's stay after the 10 year lease expires? otherwise I think they will all be gone by late 2016. Saw my first 787 in LA this week and its small.

In addition more than half the Heathrow 747 fleet will be 20 years in the next few years - are they planned to leave at some point.

With slots at Heathrow at a premium how can a future fleet of 330 and 787's cover what they do now - especially with the 330 UC issue.

Surely Virgin need a few larger planes

VS has ordered the 787-9 which is about 50 seats larger than the 787-8 which you will have seen. The -9 will have its first flight in may I believe.

I believe the cabin is also wider

Buns

We'll have to wait to see how many seats VS squeeze into the 787-9 and hope that the disastrous new UC is much improved on it. That said, even though it's 9 across in economy, it'll seat 30-40 fewer passengers than an A346. However I do agree with you, it's not a strategy for growth is it.

As to the 747s we'll have to wait and see what happens, no one believes VS will take the A380s on order and most think that these will be converted to A350s when the 747s need to be replaced.

On fleet age I think you're wrong, most of the 346s were delivered in 2005/6 so the fleet is definitely younger than you say. Take a look at airfleets.net

The 787 is recommended to have 8 abreast in economy (2-4-2) by Boeing. However most airlines (inc BA and UA) have plumped for 9 abreast in 3-3-3.

Personally, I really hate 3-3-3 configuration. As a family of 4, this really is the worst arrangement possible. This is one of the reasons we regularly book with Thomson for transatlantic because their 767s are 2-4-2 which is excellent.

Agree on the dislike of 3-3-3. Both when travelling as a family of 4, and also when travelling alone it does not work for me. I always take a window seat by choice and when forced to travel in ecomomy for work (sadly this is most of the time though upgrade when I can)I hate having to climb over two people, it is one of the reasons I keep my work travel with VS (and the A340 fleet). If in economy on a 747 I and the family try to get the 2s at the back.

I don't imagine I or hunterdwmgzt are alone in this though quite sure it will not be high on any airlines list of considerations, thirty extra seats or so is a lot of revenue (3-3-3 over 2-4-2).

hunterdwmgzt wrote:Personally, I really hate 3-3-3 configuration. As a family of 4, this really is the worst arrangement possible. This is one of the reasons we regularly book with Thomson for transatlantic because their 767s are 2-4-2 which is excellent.

But would be better for a family of 3 as no stranger sat next to them.

Swings and Roundabouts.

I flew on an AA flight to Chicago a few years back; the VA flight was pulled. I seem to recall that the EC cabin was 2-5-2. Assume this was a 777?
Travelling, predominantly, as a couple, this worked pretty well given it was still 9 abreast.
Odd as it may seem, we try to pick routes that are served by A340s when flying VA EC. I can't say we've used this as a determining factor for choice of airline - yet!
Is 2-5-2 doable on the 787? 5 doesn't seem and better or worse than 4 and it gives the option of pairs.
Be interesting to see the demographic data of PAX groups on certain routes. So, how many singles, couples, 3s, 4s, etc...
I also wonder if it's a ploy to persuade people into Premium; it's one of the selling points for us, particularly on routes served by the 744s.

2-5-2 on AA's 777s is loved by some, not by others, but as a pair getting the side seats is great, and if you're an elite and can request the exit row seats (nudge nudge VS) then even better.

However 2-5-2 isn't economical with IFE ... because one box to serve the screens can service up to three screens traditionally, so on AA's 777s they have to have four with this config, that apparently is why most have gone 3-3-3.

hunterdwmgzt wrote: This is one of the reasons we regularly book with Thomson for transatlantic because their 767s are 2-4-2 which is excellent.

2-4-2 in a 767 is still one more seat per row than the aircraft was designed for. BA, AA and most other airlines are 2-3-2.

Interesting that IFE has an impact! I would never had factored this in.

And this may seem odd too; I don't like the exit row seats. I prefer having a seat in front - kinda feels more private.

VA extra legroom always feel like good value in terms of space and privacy, especially in the pair config.

Perhaps this links to VAs Seat Plus system; will spin more money for them if "3s" are more common??

slinky09 wrote:2-5-2 on AA's 777s is loved by some, not by others, but as a pair getting the side seats is great, and if you're an elite and can request the exit row seats (nudge nudge VS) then even better.

However 2-5-2 isn't economical with IFE ... because one box to serve the screens can service up to three screens traditionally, so on AA's 777s they have to have four with this config, that apparently is why most have gone 3-3-3.

Yes, a bunch of UA's 777s are 2-5-2 and are very popular on the West coast to HNL route.

2-5-2 vs 3-3-3 or 3-4-3 is a perennial debate. The 2-5-2 configs tend to win those debates because they condemn fewer people to having to climb over 2 seats to get to the aisle.

Oh and forgot to add, AA is going 3-3-3 with their new 773s ... apparently because of the IFE issue.

slinky09 wrote:Oh and forgot to add, AA is going 3-3-3 with their new 773s ... apparently because of the IFE issue.

ISTBC but 3-4-3 I believe

McMaddog wrote:

slinky09 wrote:Oh and forgot to add, AA is going 3-3-3 with their new 773s ... apparently because of the IFE issue.

ISTBC but 3-4-3 I believe

Oops, you are correct sir! It'll be a squeeze.