V-Flyer

Hi All,

Hate to be too gossipy and everything but this is one recent rumour that I find logical.

Essentially, the route to Dubai is highly seasonal and depends on leisure traffic mostly from VHols. This in essence is low yielding. Add in 5 Emirates A380s, 3 BA 772s plus Royal Brunei (loss leader, seats from 280 quid return) and there are few business travellers left. Not to mention cargo.

So it seems like a toxic cocktail of problems that make this a loss making route, and it seems likely to be cut.

The rumours I heard did not suggest any replacements.

Personally, I think that they should keep Dubai a few times a week from Gatwick for the sake of VHols.

Then they could add a daily flight to Abu Dhabi to start a codeshare with Etihad and Virgin Australia, a strong business destination short of seats.

Any ideas?

Ideas on potential routes? Plenty.. most discussed before though. VS should be thinking with/ahead of the curve and looking VERY seriously at introducing several South American routes.. preferably before a couple of events down the line

I do hope they keep the Dubai route, even seasonally for VH... was thinking about spending some of my mileage bank on an adventure out that way later in the year.

Please do keep the gossip coming.... was entertained for several hours on a recent flight by the CC and their gossip and tales of the fairy kind doing the rounds. 8D

For some reason I am reminded of Nintendo's philosphy when dealing with Sony and Microsoft - they went to find new places to swim.

If DXB is losing money for VS then why keep it?

Plus all the EK feeder flights from Manchester, Newcastle.

As Sealink says, unless VS can make money or it is critical to the brand, why bother?

Is DXB a big cargo earner?

Continuing the route simply invites EK comparison.
I do not see what VS has to gain if not making good profits.
Even if they are profitable now, how long would that continue as pax realise the advantages in both cost and service with EK?

Unless VS see themselves as an Atlantic feeder into the EK network ...

Isn't QF starting to use DXB as a hub now?

If they are, that's got to hurt VS loads.

As a half the year Dubai resident, I can probably add some light to this....

I used to use the 400/401 a lot, and loads tended to be good - but relatively light in terms of business traffic. Seemed to be a lot of upgrades and miles burners, with quite a few well heeled tourists in Upper. Virgin do themselves no favours on this route - they don't advertise in DXB (unlike BA and obviously EK!) and their product is just no where near EK standards. Just once a day is not good for business traffic either, EK are eight a day to London with five A380s.

Virgin also terminate here, they have no connectivity with anyone else, which means no through traffic.

What do they bring to the party for EK? Precious little - Boston, Orlando and seasonal Chicago and Vancouver. EK do the others nonstop from DXB.

Price wise, EK hammer them as well. I'm in DXB right now, EK business was £1,466 return, VS north of £2,500. And I got upgraded to EK A380 First (private cabin) which is just incredible.....

I would say - writing on the wall for this route. Unless as I suspect VS is turning into the travel arm of Virgin Holidays, in which case all bets are off.

Darren Wheeler wrote:Isn't QF starting to use DXB as a hub now?

If they are, that's got to hurt VS loads.

Emirates and Qantas are in the final stages of implementing a partnership agreement that includes shifting the latter to using Dubai rather than Singapore.

I checked flights there and Emirates was offering flights "operated by Qantas" LHR-DXB

Had the choice between the VS flight and an EK flight a few years ago. Ultimately went with Emirates as the flight left about 2 hours later in the morning which gave us time to eat breakfast at the hotel. The VS departure is a tad too early in my opinion.

Sealink wrote:I checked flights there and Emirates was offering flights "operated by Qantas" LHR-DXB

My flight to Sydney at Christmas has been purchased through Emirates but will be on Qantas metal on both the LHR - DXB and DXB - SYD legs. One of the reasons for choosing Emirates for the trip (aside from price) is that our daughter can fly in from MAN and meet us at DXB for the DXB -SYD flight.

I guess it's not helping VS much when one of the MAN>DXB flights is now an A380 (which is doing really well by all accounts, even in First)

Just done a quick comparison and MAN>DXB return in April on EK is cheaper (£680 - A380 flights or £600 B777 flights) than MAN>LHR>DXB return on VS (£758).

So between £100 and £160 cheaper to fly direct on EK compared to connecting in LHR with VS - that's a no brainer for most people I'm afraid to say!!

Huh if DXB is such a loss maker then agreed why bother.. I don't think that EK will take my VS miles in payment though, which for me was the point

With the Delta purchase and joint venture it wouldn't surprise me if the performance of eastbound routes was coming under scrutiny and efforts focused on boosting the transatlantic business.

I'll be keeping an ear out for this one then as we're flying VS to Dubai in Sept 2013.

I would rather fly VS than another airline, however I do want to get on an A380 at some point :w

We're a V Hols booking.

nguba wrote:With the Delta purchase and joint venture it wouldn't surprise me if the performance of eastbound routes was coming under scrutiny and efforts focused on boosting the transatlantic business.

But the DL link might bring some US passengers onto the DXB route.

Not sure if DL fly there at the moment though

Yes they operate a 777 to ATL.

Once you've tried A380 you won't get back on VS!

As someone who isn't a fan of night flights. EK offer 2 daylight services from LHR as well.

Just back from DBX. Chose BA (TR to follow) club was half the price of VS. th previous trip was EK in first again cheSper than VS. ifs it's a loss leader why is is so expensive on VS ?

I agree- Dubai woul seem to fit poorly into the scheme of things. Timings aren't great for best Transatalntic connectivity either. At 13.00 ex LHR/03.00 ex DXB would be better I would think.


Hope the India routes survive - lots of potential for transatalatic connectivity there but the Delhi needs re-timing to be more like the Mumba to optimise

Prsonally would like SIN but this might be a bit like DXB.

I weonder if under Delta all the holiday routes survive. Always seen VS as a bit bipolar.

PaulS wrote:Just back from DBX. Chose BA (TR to follow) club was half the price of VS. th previous trip was EK in first again cheSper than VS. ifs it's a loss leader why is is so expensive on VS ?

Could be the logic that if people aren't booking at low prices, then just keep prices at a certain level and make more money from those that do book.

EDIT: To explain the logic further, if reducing prices produces no additional pax, then they could have decided there's no point/need to do so. Let EK fill their planes with cheap rates.

Remember Aspire Aviation saw this coming:

" For instance, it currently has a codeshare agreement with Virgin Australia on the Hong Kong-Sydney route while it flies to Dubai once a day. Virgin Atlantic should switch the Dubai flights to Abu Dhabi and extend the codeshare agreement to the London Heathrow-Abu Dhabi route with Virgin Australia to where the latter operates a once daily flight to Abu Dhabi. Should Virgin Atlantic intend to maximise its volume effect for the codeshare agreement, it could complement it by entering another codeshare agreement with Abu Dhabi-based Etihad Airways, an existing partner of Virgin Australia, which will shift the traffic further to the Falcon Route and grow the Eithad-Virgin Australia partnership instead of undermining it."

I also think they should do LHR-SIN-SYD, instead of HKG as transit, as they could codeshare with VA and SQ, both with connections and high yield traffic. BA will of course change its transit to Doha sooner or later, offering relief.

In regards to Delta, I think that the JV does not mean the Eastern services will all be reviewed as some of these are very profitable. Relying on the US is such a bad idea, the wind blows in New York and Virgin Atlantic starts sneezing!

I really can't see AUH making any sense for them without business traffic. Most people, the overwhelming majority, on the 400/401 are leisure traffic, and AUH makes no sense.

It also puts the VS product nose to nose with Etihad, which is arguably even better than Emirates!!

Sarastro wrote:Yes they operate a 777 to ATL.

Once you've tried A380 you won't get back on VS!

I have to say I loved the A380 even in EC on Singapore airlines but must say wasn't a touch on Virgin and that's saying something as Singapore are good.