V-Flyer

Hi All
Does anyone know what the new layout is likely to be on the new 787s that VS are getting?
Will it be the same configuration as the current 3 cabin layout with a redesigned UCS or could we see an actual First Class cabin?

I HIGHLY doubt VS will get a First class cabin (think of all the new lounges required too!)

I hope they don't go with the UCDS, and either revert to old suite or something better (reverse herringbone would be good )

Recall that the dreaded UCDS was originally designed for the wider 787 and not the A333s which came in to manage the 787 delays and leases on older and less fuel efficient A340s expiring.

So, UC on the 787 will have the UCDS in four abreast layout it has been reported - and I do hope VS tinkers with it to remove some of the flaws, and also give more space. That will give VS a route to return to a premium business class offering with this seat. I do agree with Hamster, reverse herringbone would be fantastic, the window seats in particular would take on a mini-suite like feel.

PE I guess won't change unless some radical thinking at VS goes down say the route that NZ has taken with PE.

What I think will be most interesting is whether VS goes for 8 across or 9 across in Economy ... that will be the most telling decision.

As to First, I very much doubt it.

Hamster wrote:I HIGHLY doubt VS will get a First class cabin (think of all the new lounges required too!)

I hope they don't go with the UCDS, and either revert to old suite or something better (reverse herringbone would be good )

Hi Hamster
Just out of interest, why couldn't the existing CHs be used for First Class passengers too? Do BA have separate lounges for First and CW?

slinky09 wrote:Recall that the dreaded UCDS was originally designed for the wider 787 and not the A333s which came in to manage the 787 delays and leases on older and less fuel efficient A340s expiring.

So, UC on the 787 will have the UCDS in four abreast layout it has been reported - and I do hope VS tinkers with it to remove some of the flaws, and also give more space. That will give VS a route to return to a premium business class offering with this seat. I do agree with Hamster, reverse herringbone would be fantastic, the window seats in particular would take on a mini-suite like feel.

PE I guess won't change unless some radical thinking at VS goes down say the route that NZ has taken with PE.

What I think will be most interesting is whether VS goes for 8 across or 9 across in Economy ... that will be the most telling decision.

As to First, I very much doubt it.

You are totally right about the UCDS. I do hope that VS have been taking the feedback from regular fliers about the UCDS and will use the opportunity to remedy this.

What is a reverse herringbone layout? is that a 1-2-1 layout like on the 747s?

gfonk wrote:Hi Hamster
Just out of interest, why couldn't the existing CHs be used for First Class passengers too? Do BA have separate lounges for First and CW?

Yup
Most airlines tend to.
Can be done without separate lounges, but the lounges are often used to differentiate the service/product.

gfonk wrote:What is a reverse herringbone layout? is that a 1-2-1 layout like on the 747s?

The chairs point the opposite direction as the currently do on VS. So window seats point towards the windows. Have a look at AA's new business class, or Cathay Pacific (they both have the same seat, so does another airline but i cant remember who!)

The 787 WILL NOT see the UCDS installed and WILL NOT be 4 a breast like the A330.

sounds like you have some insight, vscss

Hamster wrote:
Yup
Most airlines tend to.
Can be done without separate lounges, but the lounges are often used to differentiate the service/product.

I see. Didnt know that. Then yes you guys are totally right, VS are not going to do First Class. Agreed, now I understand. Thanks guys. (i need some kind of 101 on aviation lol, guess thats why I joined v-flyer 8D )

Hamster wrote:The chairs point the opposite direction as the currently do on VS. So window seats point towards the windows. Have a look at AA's new business class, or Cathay Pacific (they both have the same seat, so does another airline but i cant remember who!)

I see. I will check it out. Sounds cooler tho, as Slinky said it will give it a more suite like feel.

vscss wrote:The 787 WILL NOT see the UCDS installed and WILL NOT be 4 a breast like the A330.

OH? :0 does that mean a return to the normal much loved UCS?

vscss wrote:The 787 WILL NOT see the UCDS installed and WILL NOT be 4 a breast like the A330.

Well that's very interesting - so UCDS will be replaced, but by what? Will the A333s be reconfigured? Will it be old UCS (with some cosmetic improvements), three abreast (which is what I've wanted to see in a while), or will it be a new design completely?

Interesting times with these planes a little more than a year away.

slinky09 wrote:

vscss wrote:The 787 WILL NOT see the UCDS installed and WILL NOT be 4 a breast like the A330.

Well that's very interesting - so UCDS will be replaced, but by what? Will the A333s be reconfigured? Will it be old UCS (with some cosmetic improvements), three abreast (which is what I've wanted to see in a while), or will it be a new design completely?

Interesting times with these planes a little more than a year away.

Yes interesting times indeed. I do hope that the old UCS comes back and like you said with some cosmetic improvements.

I was reading the VS closed their internal seat suppling department down. A sure sign that they'll purchase an off the shelf product like Cathay's hopefully.

McMaddog wrote:I was reading the VS closed their internal seat suppling department down. A sure sign that they'll purchase an off the shelf product like Cathay's hopefully.

Yes they are selling threesixty, so I'd hope that VS would work with a manufacturer to modify the Cathay/AA seat to something a bit more visually appealing!

Hamster wrote:
Yes they are selling threesixty, so I'd hope that VS would work with a manufacturer to modify the Cathay/AA seat to something a bit more visually appealing!

I checked out the Cathay/AA seat config as you suggested and yes I agree with you and Slinky, the reverse herringbone does look cool.

gfonk wrote:Do BA have separate lounges for First and CW?

In fact BA have TWO First Class lounges at Terminal 5 south - one for pax whose status entitles them to use the lounge but who aren't actually flying First Class, and the much nicer Concorde Room for those physically flying First Class.

I tend to agree with others though - bar a major change in direction from the new CEO, we won't be seeing First on Virgin.

gumshoe wrote:In fact BA have TWO First Class lounges at Terminal 5 south - one for pax whose status entitles them to use the lounge but who aren't actually flying First Class, and the much nicer Concorde Room for those physically flying First Class.

Wow - really? :0 two separate First Class lounges! thats quite cool in a way.

gumshoe wrote:I tend to agree with others though - bar a major change in direction from the new CEO, we won't be seeing First on Virgin.

Yes you guys have made me realise that this isnt going to happen. Perhaps if VS got their own Terminal at LHR, which I think is really unlikely and if/when they finally get back in the black by a massive margin.

Having said that though I would like to state that I do really like VS and what they do. Yes they dont always get it right but which airline does.

Warehouse full of J2000's somewhere...

My thoughts.

Upper - UCDS redesigned to take into account feedback. Still with flatbed (powered). Using same layout as A340/A360
PE - As is. 2-3-2
Eco - As is 2-4-2

Not putting money on it though.

gumshoe wrote:

gfonk wrote:Do BA have separate lounges for First and CW?

In fact BA have TWO First Class lounges at Terminal 5 south - one for pax whose status entitles them to use the lounge but who aren't actually flying First Class, and the much nicer Concorde Room for those physically flying First Class.

I tend to agree with others though - bar a major change in direction from the new CEO, we won't be seeing First on Virgin.

Service levels are also different.

Comparing the JFK CH and the BA J lounge for example (the only ones I can directly compare not having used the BA T5 lounges) the difference in that in BA you have to help yourself to food and drink but in the CH there is table service.

The VS menu is also a lot better and there is a wider availability of drinks - cocktails made to order etc.

Other than having a smaller more exclusive space for F pax and guaranteed spa treatments I'm not sure what more VS could do to 'upgrade' the CH to an F lounge.

tontybear wrote:Service levels are also different.

Comparing the JFK CH and the BA J lounge for example (the only ones I can directly compare not having used the BA T5 lounges) the difference in that in BA you have to help yourself to food and drink but in the CH there is table service.

The VS menu is also a lot better and there is a wider availability of drinks - cocktails made to order etc.

Other than having a smaller more exclusive space for F pax and guaranteed spa treatments I'm not sure what more VS could do to 'upgrade' the CH to an F lounge.

That's a good point tontybear.

Virgin are able to concentrate on their business class lounge and service to a higher degree by not having to provide a First class at a higher level.

Many BA flyers will disagree with you that served food is better, most seem to hate the idea of not being able to help yourself! (I don't agree with them! Anyway the food in the CCR isn't buffet style!)

Edit: oooo 1000th post y)

tontybear wrote:
Service levels are also different.

Comparing the JFK CH and the BA J lounge for example (the only ones I can directly compare not having used the BA T5 lounges) the difference in that in BA you have to help yourself to food and drink but in the CH there is table service.

The VS menu is also a lot better and there is a wider availability of drinks - cocktails made to order etc.

Other than having a smaller more exclusive space for F pax and guaranteed spa treatments I'm not sure what more VS could do to 'upgrade' the CH to an F lounge.

you are right about that. I havent been in the CH yet but will do later in the year. From what I have heard VS have got that lounge sorted so how they could beat that could be quite a tough one

gfonk wrote:From what I have heard VS have got that lounge sorted so how they could beat that could be quite a tough one

Only a few things they could improve on, mainly being the (minor) things they have removed over the years, help yourself to bottled water and soft drinks, decent sweets in the jars etc.

Hamster wrote:

gfonk wrote:From what I have heard VS have got that lounge sorted so how they could beat that could be quite a tough one

Only a few things they could improve on, mainly being the (minor) things they have removed over the years, help yourself to bottled water and soft drinks, decent sweets in the jars etc.

OH? no bottled water in the lounge currently? meaning you have to stop in the departure lounge to buy some?

Darren Wheeler wrote:My thoughts.

Upper - UCDS redesigned to take into account feedback. Still with flatbed (powered). Using same layout as A340/A360

Not putting money on it though.

I think everyone is in agreement that the UCDS needs to be redesigned and I hope that VS take this on board so to speak and get actual feedback from regulars on the new design.

gfonk wrote:I think everyone is in agreement that the UCDS needs to be redesigned and I hope that VS take this on board so to speak and get actual feedback from regulars on the new design.

VS knows however what I was suspecting was an improved UCDS to iron out the things people don't like, I wasn't expecting a new seat (or a return to the UCS). So we'll have to wait and see.

As for First, I really don't see the need for it, unless VS does something like TAM has done on their new 777s, one row of four seats. It's not just about lounges, they require wholly superior onboard offerings, additional cabin crew, as well as check in desks, you name it.

And I agree, even if (big if) First came, I don't see a need to change the clubhouses since they are arguably as good if not better than many airlines' first class lounges (I've been in a few that I could mention ... e.g. AA's at ORD which is pitiful, even Cathay's at HKG which I though much inferior). Some are as good, such as the Concorde room at T5 but that's a BA stand out, and some of the BA First lounges down route are pretty ordinary (apart from the quality of wines and champagnes). EK's even First lounges I find like bus terminals ...