V-Flyer

Virgin Atlantic is without doubt one of the best airlines around today. I regularly fly with them and would highly recommend them. As a cyclist, the best feature for me travelling with Virgin is the ability to fly with my bicycle at no additional cost.

I am disappointed however that having amassed thousands upon thousands of air miles and told that I am eligible for an upgrade in seat, the airline now tells me that I have to pay a higher premium in order to qualify for the upgrade. I find this type of mercenary behaviour on the part of Virgin wholly unethical. I had been diligently saving my air miles for years in the hope of experiencing what lies behind the red curtain. After complaining to Virgin Head Office, I was advised to read the small print. Has any one else had this problem? I've been loyal to Virgin for years and didn't expect this from them.

RiceNpeas wrote:Virgin Atlantic is without doubt one of the best airlines around today. I regularly fly with them and would highly recommend them. As a cyclist, the best feature for me travelling with Virgin is the ability to fly with my bicycle at no additional cost.

I am disappointed however that having amassed thousands upon thousands of air miles and told that I am eligible for an upgrade in seat, the airline now tells me that I have to pay a higher premium in order to qualify for the upgrade. I find this type of mercenary behaviour on the part of Virgin wholly unethical. I had been diligently saving my air miles for years in the hope of experiencing what lies behind the red curtain. After complaining to Virgin Head Office, I was advised to read the small print. Has any one else had this problem? I've been loyal to Virgin for years and didn't expect this from them.

Hi and welcome to V-Flyer.

To be able to upgrade using miles, you need to have booked you original ticket in a qualifying fare as stated here I presume that your original ticket was not in one of those fare buckets and so needed to pay the difference between your original fare and an upgradeable one. I can't see how that is unethical or mercenary - it's business and I think you would find that most airlines will have the same business practice

To upgrade using miles, you need to be booked in to an upgradable fare code, as not every code is eligible for upgrading with miles. This is pretty clear on the VS website and also during the booking process it states if the fare is eligible to upgrade with miles. It is very is similar to a lot of airlines reward programs usage.

I'm really not sure why you think it is unethical.

RiceNpeas wrote: I find this type of mercenary behaviour on the part of Virgin wholly unethical.

That's a bit strong (as well as being totally wrong)

Lots of airlines have the same or similar policies re using of miles to upgrade and are quite open about it.

Some I can think of are

British Airways
American Airlines
United / Continental
Lufthansa
Delta
QANTAS
Air Canada
Air New Zealand
Swiss
Air France / KLM
Emirates

ALL their mileage programmes require a passenger to have the 'right' sort of ticket.

VS even makes it easy for passengers to buy such tickets by having a specific search engine here

I have to say that I do empathise with the OP here:

Not so very long ago, I would have thought the same. You see, until I came to V-Flyer I never knew that fare types within classes of travel even existed.

And I bet there are a few V-Flyers that would put their hands up and admit that, once upon a time, they didn't realise that either.

RiceNpeas, this might not quite be right but I think of it like this (and excuse the rubbish analogy): :w

Think of a Tesco ready meal. You can buy the regular offering -not much in the way of bells and whistles but it's the standard offering. Then there is the 'Finest' version - all the bells and whistles. Finally, at the other end of the scale, you've got the 'Value' offering - bargain basement, stripped back.

So, in air fare terms, in any given cabin, you can have 'Standard' - standard flexibility (including the opportunity to upgrade), along with standard miles/tier points earned.

Then you've got 'Finest': much more flexibility, more miles and tier points.

Finally, you've got 'Value' - a stripped back version that will do what it says on the tin (it gets you from A to B in the cabin of your choice). But with this option you're getting it at a knock down price. So you don't get the flexibility. And you get a few less miles/points.

All VS (and any other airline) is saying to you is that if you want to upgrade, you need to buy at least a standard ticket - the 'value' option is, usually, already heavily discounted.

As VS has a sale on at the moment, there are some great bargains out there at the right now. With a little searching and by throwing a few miles in, you should be able to secure something in UC for a fraction of the published price. But, yes, you will pay a bit more than the bargain basement ticket price.

Again, sorry for the truly awful and laboured analogy! :#

Paul

LetThereBeFlight wrote:I have to say that I do empathise with the OP here:

Not so very long ago, I would have thought the same. You see, until I came to V-Flyer I never knew that fare types within classes of travel even existed.

And I bet there are a few V-Flyers that would put their hands up and admit that, once upon a time, they didn't realise that either.

RiceNpeas, this might not quite be right but I think of it like this (and excuse the rubbish analogy): :w

Think of a Tesco ready meal. You can buy the regular offering -not much in the way of bells and whistles but it's the standard offering. Then there is the 'Finest' version - all the bells and whistles. Finally, at the other end of the scale, you've got the 'Value' offering - bargain basement, stripped back.

So, in air fare terms, in any given cabin, you can have 'Standard' - standard flexibility (including the opportunity to upgrade), along with standard miles/tier points earned.

Then you've got 'Finest': much more flexibility, more miles and tier points.

Finally, you've got 'Value' - a stripped back version that will do what it says on the tin (it gets you from A to B in the cabin of your choice). But with this option you're getting it at a knock down price. So you don't get the flexibility. And you get a few less miles/points.

All VS (and any other airline) is saying to you is that if you want to upgrade, you need to buy at least a standard ticket - the 'value' option is, usually, already heavily discounted.

As VS has a sale on at the moment, there are some great bargains out there at the right now. With a little searching and by throwing a few miles in, you should be able to secure something in UC for a fraction of the published price. But, yes, you will pay a bit more than the bargain basement ticket price.

Again, sorry for the truly awful and laboured analogy! :#

Paul

+1 from me... While the OPs post may well be a bit over emotive, I do sympathise that it takes a fair degree of experience in the black art of airline programs and fare code restrictions to work out how to actually use miles in an efficient and effective way.

Is this particular issue though about having an upgradeable ticket, or is it about the extra 'charges' that have to be paid upon upgrading? I read it as the latter, but ISTBC. And on that subject, it might be common business practise yes, but sticking you for additional fuel surcharge fees when you upgrade does leave a bit of a taste in the mouth doesn't it?

ratechaser wrote:
...sticking you for additional fuel surcharge fees when you upgrade does leave a bit of a taste in the mouth doesn't it?

Agreed ratechaser, that it does v(

tontybear wrote:Lots of airlines have the same or similar policies re using of miles to upgrade and are quite open about it.

Some I can think of are

British Airways
American Airlines
United / Continental
Lufthansa
Delta
QANTAS
Air Canada
Air New Zealand
Swiss
Air France / KLM
Emirates

ALL their mileage programmes require a passenger to have the 'right' sort of ticket.

VS even makes it easy for passengers to buy such tickets by having a specific search engine here

That is not correct for British Airways. You can upgrade using Avios from the lowest available fare, and the whole process is very easy online.

You can check award availability online, you don't need to know 'upgradeable fare codes' or any other complications, and you don't need to phone BA. If there is an award seat available you can book it, online, at the lowest fare available. The only additional cost is any premium cabin surcharge applicable, eg £60 to upgrade from PE to Business.

I've done this twice recently and it was quite an eye-opener after many years of flying with VS and never having been able to use miles to upgrade.

Although not one of the airlines listed, I've also upgraded with Aer Lingus using Gold Circle points. Had to phone them to do it, but again the upgrade was from the lowest available fare.

Whilst I wouldn't call the VS policy unethical, I would certainly agree that it is mercenary.

Whilst for the most part I am going to avoid this discussion :

wraf137 wrote:That is not correct for British Airways. You can upgrade using Avios from the lowest available fare, and the whole process is very easy online.

I am sorry wraf137 but tonty is correct that there are restrictions on the BA fare codes that you can upgrade from.. For example Y,B and H fares are the only ones that you can upgrade from WT to WT+ with off the bat - the discounted fare classes are not eligible. I won't go into much more here, but keep an eye on BA-Flyer for a fare code guide.. coming soon

joeyc wrote:Whilst for the most part I am going to avoid this discussion :

wraf137 wrote:That is not correct for British Airways. You can upgrade using Avios from the lowest available fare, and the whole process is very easy online.

I am sorry wraf137 but tonty is correct that there are restrictions on the BA fare codes that you can upgrade from.. For example Y,B and H fares are the only ones that you can upgrade from WT to WT+ with off the bat - the discounted fare classes are not eligible. I won't go into much more here, but keep an eye on BA-Flyer for a fare code guide.. coming soon

On the flip side, you CAN upgrade the cheapest WT+ bucket to CW, but you CAN'T upgrade more than one class (i.e. up to first), like you can with an M class Virgin economy fare up to UC. So each program has its idiosynchrasies, and each is pretty darn complex to the unwary and inexperienced. Which is why I have a touch of sympathy here despite the intemperate language...

@wraf137
Is that right about BA?
If so my Amex points might burn a whole in my pocket
I do think the OPs post was a bit harsh Though I can understand the frustration but then that's how the good folk on V-flyer come in to play

Before we get into a war of who's right or wrong with regard to BA upgrades let us get back to the topic of fees for upgrading.

As someone here rightly pointed out, how many of us knew about upgradeable fare codes before we came to this (and other) site? I didn't. The year that my son left school, his best friend flew out to JFK on VS to work for the summer. Aer John (the son, who was/is a V-Flyer) had a shed-load of miles and decided to upgrade him. We found out that he was on a severely restricted fare and it would have cost a king's ransom to upgrade him and so Aer John's surprise was not to be but to us, it was a lesson in fares codes and upgrading. OK, so we had had the basics here on VF but sometimes reality bites! )

I agree with the OP to a certain extent.
Just the other day I was looking into upgrading with miles but the cheapest upgradable economy ticket was more expensive than the cheapest base premium economy ticket making the miles worthless so I can't see the point. To the ordinary Joe like me it looks like the airlines have set a system up that ensures that you end up paying for the cabin you are in with money no matter how many miles you have to plough in.

It seems to me that they expect the ordinary everyday traveller to have quite a bit of knowledge of fare codes and ticketing when all they want to do is book a flight for the cheapest price and are not interested or aware of fare codes,

Not only that they soon forget about fare codes when you get to the check in desks and the PE/UC cabin is half full then they are only too happy to part you from your money which has happened on quite few occasions. (I've been quite happy about that though )

@HL - yes your point is true. I know people who have lots of points even Ag member but doesn't know how to use
I think as mentioned up thread an upgrade using money plus miles can be more expensive but can also be significantly cheaper if you are lucky with timing and know what you are doing
Now the more I read and get involved on v-flyer the more I am learning

Having flown with Virgin for many years to JFK, I too had amassed a nice handful of miles. Whilst I knew about the different classes, I had never come across a way to effectively use the miles. I too had thought it wasn't worth the extra cash to be able to upgrade.

Up until this week !

Whilst looking on v-flyer I noticed a link to the reward seat site and promptly looked at the dates for my next trip to JFK. So having found a reward seat in PE I decided to call the club helpline. Unfortunately the reward seat had gone for the date I required but by jigging the date by a day I managed to get the Upgrade on my return leg. The outward bound fare is in a higher class but the overall price(without the upgrade)still came in cheaper than the basic return fare.

The reward program is really something of a bonus to me and to be able to use the miles after all this time is great and I see it as a treat as I am normally a bargain basement traveller.

ratechaser wrote:On the flip side, you CAN upgrade the cheapest WT+ bucket to CW, but you CAN'T upgrade more than one class (i.e. up to first), like you can with an M class Virgin economy fare up to UC. So each program has its idiosynchrasies, and each is pretty darn complex to the unwary and inexperienced. Which is why I have a touch of sympathy here despite the intemperate language...

This is what I've done. I paid the lowest available WT+ fare and upgraded using Avios to CW.

I don't know the fare codes involved but the main point is that I didn't need to know them or any of the other complexities of the system. I just checked award availability online. Then I checked lowest fares available for the relevant dates. Clicked to book the award seats and was quoted what I knew to be the lowest fare. So I got a 'genuine' upgrade for points, from the starting point of the lowest fare available rather than having to pay more for the flight in the first place in order to be able to upgrade it.

YMMV but for me it couldn't have been any simpler or clearer, and it was all done online. The first time I did it, I admit I was more than a little surprised at just how easy it was, especially compared to VS. But since then BA have made improvements and it's now even easier to see award availability.

A good view to have Gonzo and thanks for posting up that success story.. similar to yourself I have flown for many years, accrued a fair mileage bank and have to confess it is thanks to this site (and some related ones ii) ) that I can get the most from them. YMMV speaking of course

Ahh wraf, sorry if my initial post appeared direct but was just correcting the mistaken assumption. Being honest I am still in the process of locking down exactly what each fare gives for our sister site and given the number of them I am still at the surface stage.... keep an eye out on BA Flyer for a guide.. coming soon

Happy flying all 8D