V-Flyer

Delta has announced it plans to remove 7 business seats and replace them with 23 economy seats (they do not have a PE seat).
Their basis is that most customers in business have not paid for them but used miles or upgrades. This will make it harder to get business seats and encourage customers to buy a business seat (so their theory goes).

let's hope it does not work out so well for them or they might want VS to do something similar.

My guess is it will make their FF scheme less attractive to their customers. If you are paying to sit in economy without FF benefits then DL is not that high on the wish list.

Not so sure I agree with you, nor necessarily DL. Thing is, all US airlines have gotten themselves in a muddle with F seats domestically and even J seats internationally. They've let the FF schemes creep so much that if you fly a lot there's little incentive to actually pay for a good seat, it's expected for free. Automatic upgrades for top tier elites are the norm. I've flown a lot in F within the US and look at the upgrades list at the gate frequently, and can see how most seats are filled with elite upgrades and not paid for. Ironically, these same people could be travelling on deeply discounted company fares ... the result is to crush yields and I've often thought that things in the US are out of hand.

Then add on Economy+ as most US airlines have it now, and note that as a VS FC Au you too can get these for free (when available) on DL flights. E+ seats are usually extra legroom like on VS, at the front of the cabin, give priority access and do just fine. I guess DL figures that these will be the option instead of giving away premium seats ...

slinky09 wrote:Then add on Economy+ as most US airlines have it now, and note that as a VS FC Au you too can get these for free (when available) on DL flights. E+ seats are usually extra legroom like on VS, at the front of the cabin, give priority access and do just fine. I guess DL figures that these will be the option instead of giving away premium seats ...

I dudn't know that EC+ seats were free to VS AU's flying on Delta - that's a nice bonus to be aware of next time I fly internally in US, and am dithering over which airline to choose.

slinky09 wrote: as a VS FC Au you too can get these for free (when available) on DL flights. E+ seats are usually extra legroom like on VS, at the front of the cabin, give priority access and do just fine

Spot on from Mr Slinky. y)
With my last 6 Internal US Delta flights I have been put in to the E+ seats without even asking. More than enough for even the 3-4 hour flights for me.
The only strange thing I have found with DL is access to the lounges. On my last three flights out of LGA I have been allowed access twice and denied once. The really funny things was the time I was denied I had a VS flight back to the UK on the same PNR. I wasn't too put off, it was only a 45 min wait.

slinky09 wrote:Not so sure I agree with you, nor necessarily DL. Thing is, all US airlines have gotten themselves in a muddle with F seats domestically and even J seats internationally. They've let the FF schemes creep so much that if you fly a lot there's little incentive to actually pay for a good seat, it's expected for free. Automatic upgrades for top tier elites are the norm. I've flown a lot in F within the US and look at the upgrades list at the gate frequently, and can see how most seats are filled with elite upgrades and not paid for. Ironically, these same people could be travelling on deeply discounted company fares ... the result is to crush yields and I've often thought that things in the US are out of .
..

When I first joined my current company US fliers entitled to fly F / J were offered the option of flying economy, pocketing half the difference in fare and trusting to the gods of upgrade. Worked for most of them most of the time given their FF status, so little incentive to ever pay for a premium fare.

The US is definitely out of whack. When you don't have status you are severely penalized.

That said, as Brits, we do have advantages. Amex Plat gets into every lounge, upon entry the nice ladys in the clubs have often for me given first time boarding privileges upon requesting nicely how I don't want to be with the rush - got around a 50% hit rate on that. Equally if flying UC inbound, just go ask the DL ladys, and they should give you E+ seating - even without status. Thats my experience at least.

DL - best tip is to pretend to have issues with the online thing on checkin domestically - for some reason it rejects my selections every time when I put my VS silver code in. I've had domestic bag changes waived every single time on DL last year due to this. The lady's in US seem to love my accent

pjh wrote:When I first joined my current company US fliers entitled to fly F / J were offered the option of flying economy, pocketing half the difference in fare and trusting to the gods of upgrade. Worked for most of them most of the time given their FF status, so little incentive to ever pay for a premium fare.

With upgrades handed out to FFs stateside as they are, this is not surprising. They would probably face a few probs from the UK side of things though - stuck at the back of the bus for long haul, no whiskey, no green tea, next to screaming children on either side of me is a recurring nightmare of mine :0

Sounds similar to the reasoning used when VS converted the upper deck of the LHR 747s to an ECO/UC split. Makes more sense for them financially I guess, but it isn't that encouraging for the average FF. Will wait and see how it unfolds.

They barred the whole getting difference in fare pocketed thing at work. For some reason the extra money people pocketing was encouraging business trips.

I also think in the UK the taxman showed an interest in this- not so attractive if you pay 40% of the difference back to HMRC

narikin wrote:

slinky09 wrote:I dudn't know that EC+ seats were free to VS AU's flying on Delta - that's a nice bonus to be aware of next time I fly internally in US, and am dithering over which airline to choose.

It is space available when you book, but I've not had a problem so far.