V-Flyer

Hi all,

I am unfortunately going to miss the 40 tier point target (by 6 tier points) to renew my Gold card this year, can anyone please advise what happens to all the points I have accrued. Are they wiped so I am back to zero and have to collect another 40 or are they kept and useful for something else.
Ideally I would like to extend the earning window as I should get the extra points in the next few months and can then retain my status

Thanks Tim

Hi Tim,

Unfortunately you do get a clean slate at the start of a new membership year. You'll be dropped down to Ag though.

No time for three LR returns? That will get you the 6 needed

How long have you been AU? I only ask as a phone call to FC might (and I must stress MIGHT) have you renewed as an AU... If you have plenty of flights booked/have been a long time AU holder etc... they may very well be generous and renew you as you are just under the 40 TP mark.

You don't ask you don't get... If it were me I would give it a pop.

Good luck 8D

My understanding is that it is a 13 month rolling system.
So when you Au year is up if you have 40 tier points in the last 13 months you will qualify to renew. Otherwise you will lose the Au but the tier points you have each have a life of 13 months so you will only lose the older tier points initially. If the extra points you are about to earn bring the total earned in 13 months back up to 40 you should be back in Au.
That's my understanding of it.
Dick D

dickydotcom wrote:My understanding is that it is a 13 month rolling system.
So when you Au year is up if you have 40 tier points in the last 13 months you will qualify to renew. Otherwise you will lose the Au but the tier points you have each have a life of 13 months so you will only lose the older tier points initially. If the extra points you are about to earn bring the total earned in 13 months back up to 40 you should be back in Au.
That's my understanding of it.
Dick D

Nope afraid not Dick. 13 month rolling only applies before you actually have a set membership year - i.e. when you are red.

When you reach the lofty heights of AU (or Ag) you have a set 'membership year' with the TP counter zeroing each year.

joeyc wrote:

dickydotcom wrote:My understanding is that it is a 13 month rolling system.
So when you Au year is up if you have 40 tier points in the last 13 months you will qualify to renew. Otherwise you will lose the Au but the tier points you have each have a life of 13 months so you will only lose the older tier points initially. If the extra points you are about to earn bring the total earned in 13 months back up to 40 you should be back in Au.
That's my understanding of it.
Dick D

Nope afraid not Dick. 13 month rolling only applies before you actually have a set membership year - i.e. when you are red.

When you reach the lofty heights of AU (or Ag) you have a set 'membership year' with the TP counter zeroing each year.

Are you sure Joeyc?

I am certain Ag is a rolling year?

Yes you're right IH.

Unfortunately that doesn't help the OP as for Au members, tier points do reset to zero at the end of your membership year.

As joeyc says, if you've been Au a while or are otherwise deemed valuable by VS, a goodwill gesture isn't out of the question. Probably unlikely though tbh - 38 or 39 TPs might do it but 34 could be pushing it.

joey

I don't think that's right. Renewal "years" are set. Moving up the tiers is done by the rolling periods. So if you're AG and half way through your renewal year you hit 40 on the rolling period, you move up to AU and your new renewal year starts accordingly.

Wow, I did only skirt around this point as it is not really relevant to the OPs question, perhaps explaining all the confusion. My apologies :# However, these rolling and fixed periods are damned confusing, aren't they?

The relevant conditions are held in the T&C paragraphs 2.17 and 2.18.. someone please feel free to have a gander and give a view on the subject for me. I have done far too much social drinking this weekend to make sense of that wall of legalese without running the risk of blood escaping my brain through my ears.

That being said, I am fairly certain it claims that for each Upgrade Cycle and Fixed Membership Period the TP counter resets to 0. The 13 month rolling period that you refer to only being applicable to the Red Tier before a fixed membership year is set and thus, as in at240s example, you can count tier points used to attain Ag (not retain as then the counter is reset to 0 as stated) to subsequently get to AU in a single rolling upgrade period (i.e. min 12 but no more than 13 months) ..

Basically it works on the way up, not the way down

**I reserve the right to revisit this topic and the T&Cs tomorrow when enjoying my inescapable hangover and recovery day. ii)

I'm lost

I think the rolling year issue is 13 months. I've never really noticed it before my year end has gone from 28 Feb to 30 Apr since I got AU. MyTPs reset to 0 at the end of last month and my account page says I have till 30 April 2015 to earn 40 TPs

With the upgrade from AG to AU, I believe it's the same 13 month rule so you have to earn 40 TPs within the 13 months starting either from the day you renew AG or if it's one of those straight red to AU with a quick stop at AG, it's 13 moths from when you earn the first TP that started you on the journey to AG.

That's a really long sentence. I hope it makes sense.

Back to the OP's question sadly they will be wiped to zero but if you could sneak in a few LR flights and get closer to 40, it's possible that VS will give you an extension or retain Au if you ask.

Thanks everyone for the feedback, my query certainly raised some questions. It looks like my tier points will revert to zero - but I shall give Virgin a call to check and then kindly ask them to extend my earning window by 6 weeks so I can keep the Gold as my noting booking would of secured it. If they can't then I am afraid my loyalty with Virgin is passing as their partnerships and lounge access that being a Virgin FF member gets with other airlines in Asia (except Singapore) is pretty poor. Might start consolidating on Star Alliance.

Cheers

Ahh I had forgotten about this...... ii)

Yep sorry guys the T&Cs appear to support my line of thinking. It makes sense actually, otherwise you would have people seesawing between Ag and AU with some frequency. 8D

I hope VS CS come through for you Tim, as gumshoe says up thread.. 34 TPs for renewal might be a bit of a push, but you never know. Fingers crossed.

Some LR flights not an option to retain?

Tinuks wrote:With the upgrade from AG to AU, I believe it's the same 13 month rule so you have to earn 40 TPs within the 13 months starting either from the day you renew AG

I don't think that's quite right -- the rolling period is calculated continuously back from the current date, and it can span the division between two renewal years. You don't lose the TPs for tier upgrade purposes (except when they drop out of the rolling window).

Things are not helped by the T&Cs, which contain the key (unclear) sentence:

2.17 "[...] For each Upgrade Cycle and Fixed Membership Period, your Tier Points will reset to 0. [...]"

when talking about silvers. I wonder if this is what joey is referring to. But regardless, I don't think it is correct. So far as I am aware, upgrade TPs do not reset -- the period rolls on and on. And for the specific purposes of this thread, I can't see any distinction in the way they are treated for those moving down to silver as opposed to those renewing or moving up? The T&Cs just say that the normal silver rules apply.

Very happy to be proved wrong!

Blacky1 wrote:I'm lost

Still lost?

Tinuks wrote:

Blacky1 wrote:I'm lost

Still lost?

Totally and utterly tinuks ?|

Blacky1 wrote:

Tinuks wrote:

Blacky1 wrote:I'm lost

Still lost?

Totally and utterly tinuks ?|

There you are!

*bumps into Blacky1 in Overmyheadville*

Blacky1 wrote:Totally and utterly tinuks ?|

OK here's an example which may help:

Let's say you're silver and your fixed renewal year ends on 31 December.

You don't fly at all during your renewal year until December, when you earn 15 TPs, so you renew your silver. Then in January and February you earn another 25 TPs.

I believe (and this is what I was discussing with Tinuks) that you are then made gold and you have until the beginning of March the following year to renew your gold.

The other debate (with joey) in this thread relates to the same situation with one twist -- you begin as gold and you are downgraded at the end of the renewal year.

Missing AU by 5 TP's myself - may still make it, but the flights dropping off as quick later in year as making them, so the rolling 13 month for me will end at 35. All down to a mixed bag of BA/VS due to routings in my case this year - I can't take VS or a partner to a place they don't fly. Not worth the little red route for me, I don't value the status that much as have lounge access via amex plat in most airports in land.

at240 wrote:

Blacky1 wrote:Totally and utterly tinuks ?|

OK here's an example which may help:

Let's say you're silver and your fixed renewal year ends on 31 December.

You don't fly at all during your renewal year until December, when you earn 15 TPs, so you renew your silver. Then in January and February you earn another 25 TPs.

I believe (and this is what I was discussing with Tinuks) that you are then made gold and you have until the beginning of March the following year to renew your gold.

The other debate (with joey) in this thread relates to the same situation with one twist -- you begin as gold and you are downgraded at the end of the renewal year.

Thanks at240 ,that's cleared that up perfectly |:)

at240 wrote:

Blacky1 wrote:Totally and utterly tinuks ?|

OK here's an example which may help:

Let's say you're silver and your fixed renewal year ends on 31 December.

You don't fly at all during your renewal year until December, when you earn 15 TPs, so you renew your silver. Then in January and February you earn another 25 TPs.

I believe (and this is what I was discussing with Tinuks) that you are then made gold and you have until the beginning of March the following year to renew your gold.

The other debate (with joey) in this thread relates to the same situation with one twist -- you begin as gold and you are downgraded at the end of the renewal year.

Using the example you gave, I still think that your TPs will reset to 0 on December 31. The only time the TPs don't reset is when you make the first leap from Red to Silver. In that case, your example would work because you may still have time to reach Gold. Once you reach Silver you get a rolling year, and once that ends, you're reset to 0.

Tinuks wrote:

at240 wrote:

Blacky1 wrote:Totally and utterly tinuks ?|

OK here's an example which may help:

Let's say you're silver and your fixed renewal year ends on 31 December.

You don't fly at all during your renewal year until December, when you earn 15 TPs, so you renew your silver. Then in January and February you earn another 25 TPs.

I believe (and this is what I was discussing with Tinuks) that you are then made gold and you have until the beginning of March the following year to renew your gold.

The other debate (with joey) in this thread relates to the same situation with one twist -- you begin as gold and you are downgraded at the end of the renewal year.

Using the example you gave, I still think that your TPs will reset to 0 on December 31. The only time the TPs don't reset is when you make the first leap from Red to Silver. In that case, your example would work because you may still have time to reach Gold. Once you reach Silver you get a rolling year, and once that ends, you're reset to 0.

Permission to be lost again ?

Well Blacky. If I moved from red to silver in January 2013 I immediately get assigned a rolling year that ends on January 31 2014. So on January 31 2014, my TPs are reset to 0 and I start a new membership year from that day, so there's no way that TPs that I earn after January 31 2014 will be counted towards my AU upgrade.

On the other hand, if I move from red to silver, I'm still on 15 TPs and counting until the end of the 12th month from when I earned the 1st of the 15 TPs. So if for instance I earned my 1st TP on January 1 2013 and I reach 15 TPs by August 15, my AG rolling year starts on August 16, and I need to earn 15 TPs by August 31 2014 to retain silver, but if I earn an additional 25 TPs by say November 20 2013, I move up to Gold and a new year is set for my Gold renewal and I get a 13 month rolling year ending on November 30 2014 to get the necessary 40 TPs.

Tinuks wrote:Using the example you gave, I still think that your TPs will reset to 0 on December 31. The only time the TPs don't reset is when you make the first leap from Red to Silver. In that case, your example would work because you may still have time to reach Gold. Once you reach Silver you get a rolling year, and once that ends, you're reset to 0.

Sorry to keep arguing but this is incorrect. Rolling years aren't 'assigned' (to quote your later post in reply to Blacky) -- the rolling period is the same for everyone and it simply is the period from today to the first day of today's month last year. So today, for instance, everyone's rolling period is from 1 April 2013 until today.

To get to gold you just need to accumulate 40 TPs in a rolling period. There is no issue with the rolling period crossing over a fixed renewal year.

Let me quote from my own FC account to demonstrate this:

In February 2012 my silver membership was renewed. Between August 2011 and my renewal I had earned 13 TPs (there were others earlier in 2011 but they are irrelevant). By the end of June 2012 I had earned 28 TPs since my renewal in February. At the end of June my rolling period lasted from 1 June 2011 until 30 June 2012 and it contained 41 TPs, so I was then upgraded to gold and a new renewal period began then.

Just when i think I've got it it changes again , think I need a map now I'm that lost !

Just stay gold Blacky and you'll be fine!