V-Flyer

A third party has purchased a ticket for my mother. He used some of his Air Miles to reduce the fare. My mother can no longer travel. The third party has refused to show her a copy of the ticket to confirm if it is refundable or transferable.
He states that Virgin will not make any refund on the ticket or return his Air Miles. I've looked on the web site and there does seem to be a process to claim a refund in these circumstances.
He is now threatening legal action against my mother if she doesn't pay for the ticket. We don't even have proof the ticket has been purchased.
Does anyone know if a ticket like this is refundable. My mother is 74 years old and really worried.
Any help greatly appreciated

With no proof of ticket in the passengers name there's nothing the person booked can do regards enforcing payment. Sounds dodgy to me

Very sorry to hear about this. Keep in mind that anyone can "threaten legal action" as all it takes are those three words. Although understandably stressful, it is a completely meaningless phrase, which people instinctively find themselves saying or writing, perhaps finding those words buried in their brain from hearing it on TV or in films!

Without any proof that a ticket was purchased in your mother's name, there's not a lot they can do.

If it turns out the ticket was purchased, you'd need to know whether it was an all-miles ticket, a miles+money ticket, a combination ticket, or an upgraded ticket. All these use different permutations of money and miles, and have different rules for refunds of the cash and/or miles element.

On the whole, the miles themselves are refundable. Of course this assumes he used Virgin miles to buy the ticket, and not miles from a partner airline.

You can find this out yourself if you know the precise dates of travel, and the specific flights. Your mother can call up and ask about the booking (stating that she does not know the booking reference).

Good luck!

and unless you are travelling within 7 (?) days I thought all the miles were refundable as well.

Sounds weird... who's the third party?

If it's a miles plus money ticket - which it sounds like it could be - the money element is non-refundable.

I'd seek some proper advice from Citizens Advice or similar if you can't resolve this amicably with the third party.

"A third party" using their miles for a ticket for someone and then threatening legal action for non-payment?

Sounds like someone you don't really know - which puts you (and them) on dodgy ground if there was any form of miles-selling going on as that is against the Flying Club T's and C's.

That said, if they're refusing to show you any form of proof that it was actually booked, it sounds even dodgier and like someone is trying to make a fast buck. Call their bluff...

Ticket won't be transferable to someone else - unless they happen to have the same name as your mother.

The 'third party' should be able to get a refund from VS of the taxes and the airport fees (less £30 admin fee) but not the fuel surcharge or the base fare (unless it was a fully flexible fare but it is unlikely that is what they bought). For an economy ticket to the US that would be about a £120 actual refund.

That would still leave your mother out of pocket though as she certainly has an obligation to pay the non refunded costs to the 'third party' even though she can't fly - after all it's not their fault your mother can no longer travel - but obviously only if the 'third party' can show her the ticket and proof of payment e.g. credit card statement etc.

Her travel insurance (assuming she has it) might cover those costs but they would need to see confirmation that a ticket was bought and paid for as well as why she can no longer travel - doctors letter for sickness etc.

The only legal action I could see the 'third party' taking against your mother would be to take her to what was the small claims court now called Money Claim Online (a legit website despite the slightly dodgy name) but they would be required to submit actual evidence that a ticket was purchased and the cost of the ticket etc and of the amount they actually lost.

Even if they went to the police alleging your mother has somehow defrauded them they would still have to produce the ticket etc - and if they can't show you that proof what would they show the police?

spiceke wrote:and unless you are travelling within 7 (?) days I thought all the miles were refundable as well.

Reading the T&C's for a MPM booking, it says they are not refundable and makes no mention even of miles being refunded, like a normal reward seat would.

Thank you all for your replies so far. I thought I'd put some more flesh on the bones. My brother in law is getting married in Florida. The person who booked the ticket was his future wife's brother. We hardly know their family at all as it was a short engagement.
Only my mother in law was going to travel to the wedding due to the location and cost. She suggested to my mum to travel with her. My mum agreed and the ticket was booked.
At this point my mum had no idea that air miles were to be used to reduce the fare, or that the ticket was non refundable or transferable. She was told it was part of a group booking. It was only when she had second thoughts about the trip was she told that it had been partly purchased with air miles. If she had known she wouldn't have agreed to it and would have made her own travelling arrangements.
Obviously this situation has caused massive family problems. My mum has never met the other side of the 'new' family and lives some distance away. She wrote to the family stating she had to cancel and received a reply back threatening legal action if she doesn't pay. In total the whole thing is a nightmare!

I think before any decision can be made about a refund, your mother needs to see the ticket with her name on it.

You can get this two ways, I suppose:

1) Say that whether your mother gives back the money voluntarily, or whether legal action is pursued in order to claim it, a valid ticket with your mother's name will need to be provided.

2) As I suggested above, if your mother knows the date and specific flights on which she was booked (even just one of the flights), she can call up Virgin and ask them to discuss the ticket with her.

Thanks for updating.

Ultimately, providing the person who booked the ticket can show confirmation that you mother has a ticket with her name on it, then she will have to pay. Providing of course, she agreed/asked for a ticket to be bought in her name, which it sounds was the case.

Most fares, regardless of if miles were used for some of the ticket, are not refundable or allow name changes. She would be entitled to claim back the taxes, which make up part of the fare.

As it seems a somewhat uncomfortable situation, might it be helpful to ask for this 'evidence of ticket' by means of suggesting she needs to see what, if any insurance may cover a cancellation.

Dear Panda paws.

Welcome & how unfortunate this saga is for all of you.

Does your mother have a VS Flying Club a/c? If so, she could log in & follow the links for future flights.

If your mother doesn't have a Flying Club account, could she join & then she would be able to access her new account which would most likely show her future flights? There is no cost involved to join Flying Club.

Another alternative is if your mother 'phoned Virgin (01293 562345 during normal office hours) or the advertised 'phone number anytime, & asked for her 6 digit PNR, the agent would give it to her. Your mother could again access further information with regard to trying to resolve the way the ticket was bought & the fare code.

Hope this assists you. Do keep us posted & I hope for a satisfactory outcome for you & your family.

Good luck.

Roxy-Popsy.

Once again thank you all for your advice I've enrolled my mum in the Flying Club but there are no details of upcoming flights? We've asked for the e-ticket to be emailed to us to actually prove 'proof of purchase' & for the booking reference. Strangely though my wife texted my brother in law 48 hours ago we still haven't been sent it? I'm wondering now if it's even been purchased!! I'll keep you updated. Many thanks again

I don't think flights would show up in FC account unless the FC member number has actually been linked to the booking, so that's not really going to help.

Best option is as you have done, asked for e-tix to be emailed to you and of course asked for proof from the third party who allegedly purchased it.

As others have advised, and understand I'm no lawyer, but if the said third party is reluctant or unable to produce proof of purchase then they don't have a leg to stand on because if they want to pursue it legally they're going to have to produce evidence.

You could always call their bluff to force their hand.

Bretty wrote:As others have advised, and understand I'm no lawyer, but if the said third party is reluctant or unable to produce proof of purchase then they don't have a leg to stand on because if they want to pursue it legally they're going to have to produce evidence.

You could always call their bluff to force their hand.

There would definitely be no claim without proof of a ticket, but for a claim to succeed the other party would also need to prove that it was intended for the passenger to pay, as opposed to this being a gift. There would also be jurisdictional issues as to whether the claim should be made in the US where the other party is based or the UK where the passenger is!

If a ticket has been purchased, is you mum prepared to pay whatever is the non refundable part?
If so then I suggest a letter sent and copy kept stating that subject to proof of purchase and method of purchase she is willing to pay for the ticket, excluding any refundable part.
Please provide details of: class of ticket; payment made for money and/or airmiles; method of payment.
If those details are not forthcoming and the purchaser does decide to go to small claims your mother should immediately respond to the small claims disputing the claim and saying she has offered to pay and let them have a copy of the letter.

If the details are forthcoming, contact Virgin and find out what is refundable and pay up the difference. As already stated she may be able to claim back on travel insurance.
The purchaser may be able to claim via his credit card.

Dick D (not a lawyer, but have used the small claims twice to good effect.)

Panda Paws: does your mother know onto which specific flight she had (allegedly) been booked?

That's all the information you need to get the e-ticket from Virgin (and your mother's name, of course).