V-Flyer

Seeing the massive hotel bill for my BA West Coast Tour, San Diego to Vancouver, by Amtrak, stopping off at SD, Santa Barbara, San Francisco, Portland and Seattle, I've realised that outside Vegas, hotels in the US are expensive. It was a 2 for 1 voucher, but the hotels will add up to twice the taxes I paid for it...

So thinking going Eastwards next time, and got about 250K VS miles to spare. Not bothered about China or India.

I do like VS, but find the Carribean routes not worth it reward wise, because they do occasionally hit the 1.2 to 1.6K price, wheras the US west coast has long since been close to that low. But the hotels are killing me...

As an aside, are HK hotels relatively expensive as well? Well, can't win, maybe just to try something different with my miles...

I doubt VS will drop their HKG route as I believe it's a very profitable cargo route (do remember airlines carry a lot of cargo as well as pax). The cargo side is often much more profitable and I believe the HKG route is and always has been a good earner for VS cargo.

Airlines can and do charge £thousands to ship cargo, especially if it's dangerous goods.

mitchja wrote:I doubt VS will drop their HKG route as I believe it's a very profitable cargo route (do remember airlines carry a lot of cargo as well as pax). The cargo side is often much more profitable and I believe the HKG route is and always has been a good earner for VS cargo.

Airlines can and do charge £thousands to ship cargo, especially if it's dangerous goods.

Yes even more profitable with Sydney gone and moving to the 787's from July

This route is my biggest worry as if it were dropped I would have to re-think my brand allegiance as this is my main route.
I take it as a positive move that they are using one of the new 787 on the route rather than deploy it to the USA. The heavy cargo shipments on that route encourage me too.
I am a little perturbed by the wide availability of miles seats on this route (of course as a pax it is good) and the fact that the 787 caries significantly fewer pax than the 340 they currently use. (I think there are 14 fewer UC seats on the 787 which means less award availability).

Well if you think US hotels are expensive you are looking at the wrong alternative in HKG which has some of the most expensive hotel prices I have seen.

I doubt HKG would be the first route to be dropped if any more have to go, although I'd say anything east of LHR is not particularly safe. Cargo is a big earner on the route, particularly westbound, but it was on some of the other routes that got chopped as well. The fact is that if DL want to open up more transatlantic routes with VS the aircraft will need to come from somewhere.

However I'd worry more about the hotel rates than about VS dropping the route. I'm off there later in the year and was caught out a little bit by how high they were. This will be partially solved by spanding longer in Macau where the rate are lower.

have you tried hotwire or Priceline for booking hotels?
Ive got Westin Waterfront Boston for £86, Washington Crystal City £58
Doubletree in Philly for £70 & Belleclaire New York for £95

No idea if they are bargain prices - but certainly a lot cheaper than booking direct or anywhere I could find.


I went SF/LA in 2002 & we was paying $200 (total for2 rooms) per night back then & that was 6 guys slumming it. Hate to know the prices now

I'm reckoning on GBP250 a night for HKG hotel, there do seem to be some budget options but it's my first time there and I didn't want to skimp.

Just travelled on the HKG route - 22nd March

195 passengers in total on the Airbus - G-VEIL. No idea what its capacity is, but my experience is that this is about average. Lowest has been 135.

Upper and PE were all but full.

Eggtastico wrote:have you tried hotwire or Priceline for booking hotels?
Ive got Westin Waterfront Boston for £86, Washington Crystal City £58
Doubletree in Philly for £70 & Belleclaire New York for £95

No idea if they are bargain prices - but certainly a lot cheaper than booking direct or anywhere I could find.


I went SF/LA in 2002 & we was paying $200 (total for2 rooms) per night back then & that was 6 guys slumming it. Hate to know the prices now

I lucked out in San Diego and sales and got those for about 110 a night, direct with hilton. No such luck for San Francisco and the rest, took compromise hotels and still paid 160 quid a night. I know its not expensive, really, but add it up over 17 nights.

I did use hotwire for one, hoping for an alternative to the one I was going to book. They abused the definition of "downtown" (it was not downtown according to google maps, they moved it out to capture one I thought wasn't downtown). It saved about 30 quid over a 4 night stay... That was in Portland.

Some of the kayak/trivago third parties were giving rates which I really didn't trust. So much lower than others, and I looked up the supplier and got loads of bad reviews. Sorry, but price might be a factor, but actually booking the damned hotel is far more important...

property1925 wrote:Just travelled on the HKG route - 22nd March

195 passengers in total on the Airbus - G-VEIL. No idea what its capacity is, but my experience is that this is about average. Lowest has been 135.

Upper and PE were all but full.

That's only 61% full. You can see why they are downsizing to a 787...

We need to understabd that any VS routes East of Heathrow are not part of the DL JV . So all cost and a profit if any is for VS to bear . Whereas on the Trans Atlantic JV routes DL joint sells these flights and more so shares cost and profits directly .

DEL , HKG , PVG all get the 787 so that VS has its most fuel efficient plane flying these routes . LOS is a money spinner so stays on the A346 and DXB doesnt need a 787 as its too short a flight to make full use of the 787's long range capability .

JNB will switch to a 787 too as and when more of these 787's arrive . On the HKG yes it is a cut in Cargo capacity however if you cant fill up the cabins its best to fly a 787 than an A346 .

The short answer is no, you can't be sure. VS has a history of new route launches and prior route cancellations on a fairly regular basis for a smaller airline. You could say it's nimble and flexible to try new opportunities and close those routes that don't cut the mustard, then you could say it presents a long term loyalty threat.

I've no idea whether HKG will survive for one or ten years or more, enjoy it while you can!

LHRrules wrote:

property1925 wrote:Just travelled on the HKG route - 22nd March

195 passengers in total on the Airbus - G-VEIL. No idea what its capacity is, but my experience is that this is about average. Lowest has been 135.

Upper and PE were all but full.

That's only 61% full. You can see why they are downsizing to a 787...

and yet CX can justify 5 flights a day and BA has the A380 so there is huge volume. I fear it is a lack of attention to marketing.

To give a contrast, on the return HKG - LHR trip (see above 195 at 61% out) there were 297 pax.

Depends what Delta want them to do.

Has anyone here ever taken the LOS route? I was thinking about it this morning and it seems such an odd destination for VS to use.

SlimpyJones wrote:Has anyone here ever taken the LOS route? I was thinking about it this morning and it seems such an odd destination for VS to use.

I think Tinuks has posted several trip reports in the past. The index is broken but you can search for them using the forum search function.

SlimpyJones wrote:Has anyone here ever taken the LOS route? I was thinking about it this morning and it seems such an odd destination for VS to use.

That's a very lucrative route for BA and VS. Lots of money to be made in the front cabins.

property1925 wrote:To give a contrast, on the return HKG - LHR trip (see above 195 at 61% out) there were 297 pax.

Re the 61% that is across the whole plane. Surely what matters is the % load factor of each Cabin and what the figures are over a sustained period rather than a single flight.

I remember from the BA documentary that something like 15% of their passengers (i.e. CW and F) account for 40ish % of BA revenue.

I think I once read somewhere that HKG is a route that is very seasonal, but I can't remember the details. Certainly whenever I've been on the 200/201 it has seemed busy (although some of those occasions predate the ending of the SYD service...), and it used to be almost impossible to find reward seats in Upper Class -- the hardest sector on the VS network, a few years ago.