V-Flyer

Afternoon all! We might be heading out to Korea in 2016 and are now looking at the flight options. We'd love to travel in Upper with VS, as obviously I'm always happy to earn miles and TP. However, it looks like the trip falls slap bang in the middle of Chinese New Year, and there's not a single reward ticket (in any class) to be had for the entire month of February for the outbound flight to either PVG or HKG, where we could travel to in UC and then get a short connecting flight on to Korea.

So, this has left me looking at other options. The first time we went to Tokyo we flew in PE and were very comfortable. I'm wondering how BA's PE product compares, as I must admit I know very little about it. The direct flight is also appealing.

Any input gratefully received

I think it depends on the aircraft. WT+ on an aged BA747 barely scrapes in the same league as VS PE. I understand though that many of the BA aircraft have had a refresh of this cabin to bring the hard product up to par. No sparkling wine though...

Seat wise you're looking at virtually the same amount of space and comfort - although on some BA configs there's a lovely WT+ seat on it's own at the front of the cabin on either side. Entertainment wise also similar, both have AVOD. However as PJH says, it's worth checking the aircraft scheduled on the route by BA because old WT+ cabins can be pretty bad whereas the new ones are very smart and have the latest IFE.

Food on BA in WT+s is better because you get Club World options.

No priority boarding or bags though unless you have status on BA.

If on a newish or recently refitted plane then I'd say par for par-ish, if on an older BA plane then VS all the way especially if the crew are on song.

Thanks, pjh and slinky09! Hard to know what the aircraft would be for definite so far out, but on Expedia it's currently listing a 787-8, if that gives more information to go on.

It's seat comfort and space that are paramount to us, although I must say I will miss priority boarding and baggage handling if we do opt for WT+ Wish it was easier to get flights with VS partners...

As an additional question, does anyone know if February is blocked out for PVG and HKG reward seats because it's a blackout month due to popularity, or if it's because all the reward seats available have already been taken by PAX?

Spacedog, I suspect it's because - this far out - VS Revenue Management assume most seats will be sold as revenue fares, it being a popular time of year. I also suspect, however, the odd G will come available (randomly, as we all know) as the date approaches, but you'll have to do (at least once-)daily checks!

In your position, I'd buy an M or S fare right now and then upgrade (to PE first if you want) to Gs one at time (unless the moon goes blue and two Gs come up).

slinky09 wrote:Seat wise you're looking at virtually the same amount of space and comfort - although on some BA configs there's a lovely WT+ seat on it's own at the front of the cabin on either side.

The 747 I was on featured to Brazil and back featured this, with a nice wide table / armrest at the side; my neighbour stuck his size 11 besocked feet slap on said flat surface, meaning that whenever the chap in the seat turned to the right his nose was atop toes (that had been in shoes in a 35 centigrade, very humid, weather pattern just before).

slinky09 wrote:Food on BA in WT+s is better because you get Club World options.

Theoretically.....on my trip the economy food on the way out was far better than the WT+ food on the return.

Thanks, both, I appreciate it! I'll let you know what we end up going with

The 787 with BA has the new WTPlus seats and IFE which is a big step up from the old product. With Club main courses and new aircraft, it makes sense to go with BA on a direct flight.

Not sure what your dates are but there are reward seats available on 31 January to both destinations (Y for PVG, Y and PE for HKG), so in theory you could do a combi fare. But not really sure how the latter work, particular in respect of later changes/upgrades. Or you could book one-way seats and pray that returns are released later -- not for the faint-hearted!!

I suspect it is going to be quite a challenge to find reward seats for this period. The zero availability in February may be deliberate as there is plenty of availability in January and March.

Personally I wouldn't fly VS with a connection just to get PE. I'd take a direct flight.

LHRrules wrote:The 787 with BA has the new WTPlus seats and IFE which is a big step up from the old product. With Club main courses and new aircraft, it makes sense to go with BA on a direct flight.

Great to know, thank you!

at240 wrote:Not sure what your dates are but there are reward seats available on 31 January to both destinations (Y for PVG, Y and PE for HKG), so in theory you could do a combi fare. But not really sure how the latter work, particular in respect of later changes/upgrades. Or you could book one-way seats and pray that returns are released later -- not for the faint-hearted!!

I suspect it is going to be quite a challenge to find reward seats for this period. The zero availability in February may be deliberate as there is plenty of availability in January and March.

Personally I wouldn't fly VS with a connection just to get PE. I'd take a direct flight.

It's looking like the dates will be the last weekend in February. We'd be able to get return flights in Upper in early March, but there's nothing on the outbound, sadly! Like you, I feel it will be tricky to get reward availability in February. I'm sad as the trip was originally scheduled for January, which would have made it much easier for UC redemptions.

I definitely wouldn't fly with VS just to get PE, it wouldn't be worth it with the change, I don't think. I'd only consider VS IF we could get the UC reward seats to PVG/HKG. WT+ is looking quite appealing if it's shiny and new!

By the way, thanks again, all, this is exactly the kind of information I was hoping for and will make booking choices much easier

I convinced myself on my last couple of BA flights out of LHR in PE that the priority boarding was not an issue. I lied to myself!! I hated the scrum at the T5 boarding gate and then when we did finally get on board, there was no pre-flight drink The seats on the 747 and 777 are dated/tatty.

However on the flip side - the PE seating on the new 787 does look very nice and on the 380 PE is upstairs.

I was a loyal VS flyer for many years until the focus became more transatlantic. Moved to BA a year ago. Been lucky to have the new WTP each time on the 777 and 787. Im a big fan of it now. Had a last minute trip to ATL a couple of weeks ago, which I ended up flying Virgin. From a space point of view (A330) it seemed less than BA. Knee space was not great on the flight (I'm 6.1) Virgin staff were excellent though, but after both flights thought that perhaps my concerns of a year ago were not necessary. I have also found CW much better than I thought after the reviews.

Hi Spacedog,

PVG and HKG are my regular routes [usually out to PVG and back from HKG because of flight timings and clubhouse experience] --- must have travelled at least 4 times in last 7 years over Chinese New Year alone, have never failed to secure an upgrade to Upper in both directions, most bookings due to the nature of my work are last minute [less than 3 weeks notice] -- I travel alone, am very flexible on days/dates [usually Tuesday to Tuesday] and can mix any permutation of PVG/HKG, and finally flexible on booking M or S although I prefer S for the additional miles/TPs.
I don't know why February is not available, I have seen similar before but it has always opened up at a later date --- CNY is early next year [10th February] so you should be fine heading out end of February, I know UC upgrades will be scarcer when the 789s arrive in June/July but I would hold my nerve and stick it out a while longer.

As a person who does a lot of hub flying I can recommend that a direct flight is airways the best choice especially where the products are so evenly matched. There will be less fatigue on arrival and far less chance of your baggage going missing plus you won't have the stress of worrying about missed connection if your first flight is delayed and when you take into account the length if the journey, and the fact that the newer aircraft such as the 787 reduce jet lag then not having priority boarding is not that big a thing. Enjoy your trip

If BA are offering a direct 787 service I would undoubtedly choose that.

It'll have their latest IFE and WT+ seat, and direct over connection is so much less hassle.

Hev60 and Virginlondon, it's great to know that the 787 WTP product is a good one, it's definitely a strong contender as we do really prefer direct flights!

International Hitman, everything you wrote was extremely useful, thank you. I will definitely not have the company bringing us out book anything too soon as although a direct flight is very appealing, the lure of UC to PVG is strong and it's such a short hop over to Korea. We can generally book very far in advance and we usually travel out of most western holiday periods, so we've had little issue finding reward seats so far. However, there are two of us and although we can be somewhat flexible with a few dates either side, we generally need to be around for specific events. I'm going to keep an eye out and really appreciate you sharing your experience.

PaulS and clarkeysntfc, I definitely agree regarding direct flights! We won't fly PE with VS if we have to connect, we'd definitely take WTP over that. My dilemma is only if UC seats to PVG will become available, as then suddenly the short extra flight to Korea becomes much less painful

Thanks again for all your thoughts!

Hi Spacedog!

Have you booked your proposed flight to Korea?

G's now released for last week of February 2016 to PVG and HKG

Been said mostly already above - BA PE is okay if on the newer refurbished planes - but I prefer VS PE to BA PE when on work trips regardless of the plane if it is an option. For me the issue is the width, the BA seats just are more uncomfortable, especially if on the older planes. The older IFE is not as good on the 747's but China being 787 you'll be fine.

One comment I'd make is from experience BA you are more likely to be upgraded if you have status as they do frequently overbook the small PE cabin on the routes I've taken (and seems common from the work frequent traveller community) - and they upgrade in advance of gate allowing lounge access in such cases. That is to me would make an "advantage" for BA especially over Chinese new year, where Y and W loads may be higher than usual, if miles seats on VS are not appearing..