V-Flyer

On second thought it doesn't deserve a Regal wave, unfortunately BA are way behind VS Clubhouse in the same terminal!
I think that those who have been fortunate enough to experience the latter will know what I mean? Not really complaining though a bit of space and a comfy seat are welcome. Transfer from T5 to T3 took nearly twice as long as the flight from Manchester, supposed to be doing the return in a few weeks and have already convinced myself that I will miss the connection (90 mins allowed).
Still looking forward to my trip in First to Vancouver this afternoon and confirm that in the air BA First trumps Upper Class ( I await defensive comments from you all).

Better posted in the BA section of the forum where you may garner more support!

Have a great flight in First.
Agree the Galleries is nowhere as good as the CH but my experience in First really was First Class - so hope yours is today.

Well, does Upper still have the Amuse Bouche?

Done both of them (ok, only a nightflight, strangely enough, back from Vancouver for First). I miss the bar on BA. Virgins onboard ex-LHR seems to always be a substandard onboard experience. Of course, Upper is same level as Club, there is no equivalent for First on VS.

Agree on the Clubhouse, only seen GF T5, GC in T3 (we were silver at the time). Still my favourite lounge in the world, for ones I've visited. Will see CCR in a few weeks time, and I don't expect that to compare. Seen T5/T3 GC, T5 GF, Oneworld First TBIT, but will have more to compare with the business class in Doha, whatever a gold can access in HKG and Qantas SYD lounge, at christmas.

Don't expect much from the YVR First lounge if you are coming back that way.

Just visit Flyertalk for hours of fun reading about the continuous "enhancements" to First. Most recently - getting rid of the amuse bouche, scrapping the bistro menu (BA's version of the VS graze menu) and - shock - the abolition of flowers in the loos.

And as to why BA won't, for a product that can cost twice as much as VS UC or EK Business, provide a limo service .....

First can be terrific value if you've got a 2-4-1 voucher. And it's obviously a cut above most Business Class products. But there are many, many better First Class products out there.

Still looking forward to my trip in First to Vancouver this afternoon and confirm that in the air BA First trumps Upper Class

You are comparing a First product to a Business product. If BA First wasn't better than Upper (and we can debate if it really is) then BA has failed utterly.

hazban wrote:Still looking forward to my trip in First to Vancouver this afternoon and confirm that in the air BA First trumps Upper Class ( I await defensive comments from you all).

I have to say that I have been seriously underwhelmed by BA First. I sincerely hope you won't be.

stuart_f wrote:

Still looking forward to my trip in First to Vancouver this afternoon and confirm that in the air BA First trumps Upper Class

You are comparing a First product to a Business product. If BA First wasn't better than Upper (and we can debate if it really is) then BA has failed utterly.

I'd say the fact that it's debatable, means it's kind of failed.

To me:

LGW Upper beats BA First LGW, good lounge, smaller cabin, service staff seem to care.
LHR BA First beats LHR Upper, great lounge on VS, but the big cabin onboard and surley staff (hmmn, maybe the Vancouver one wasn't, but JFKx2, LAX, SFO were) means BA First wins.

But the fact that BA First is so much more expensive pretty much means VS wins. And then there's the Limo.

VS don't have "LHR crew" and "LGW crew" though (unlike BA). They have a dual base and crew can be rostered to work from either. So if you perceived a certain crew to be surly, it was nothing to do with it being a LHR flight - more likely a bad FSM or, if around the middle of the month, a bad new roster!

As far as I can see BA First appeals to a clientele who probably regard VS as "brash". They prefer it for the wine, the (dull IMHO) ambience, the exclusivity and - I suspect in many cases - the bragging rights (judging by the apparent need for so many posters on Flyertalk to write "I'm in F" whether it's relevant to their question or not).

Anyone who pays full whack for BA F is, frankly, being fleeced. It's a very good business class product but nothing more.

gumshoe wrote:VS don't have "LHR crew" and "LGW crew" though (unlike BA). They have a dual base and crew can be rostered to work from either. So if you perceived a certain crew to be surly, it was nothing to do with it being a LHR flight - more likely a bad FSM or, if around the middle of the month, a bad new roster!

They might not have specific crews from different bases, but they have different crews from each departure airport.

Do they regularly run the same routes? Do they get mixed to different airports? I don't know, all I can describe is the actual results.

So let's describe the difference, as I perceive them. Perhaps this can be the same person departing from a different airport.

LHR has the business routes. They have a number of shorter flight times, so the crew might be coming back on the return flight (not sure of this), or don't have a significant amount of quality time in their rest before their next flight. Their destination might not be wonderful for them (New York might be good, but stuck in a dorm somewhere in middle of nowhere for the night?)

LHR also has more passengers in the cabin, and there's definitely a feeling of being left for an hour, served something quickly and being left alone. I don't even bother much with the bar on those either, the barstaff don't really seem to want to talk to anyone, and are just doing their job. Might be overworked. Too many people to serve in two short a time, before getting rest for return. It certain has led to my other half sitting for an hour waiting for her main course, because someone just forgot, a couple of times.

LGW has the bucket and spade routes. And interesting destinations. The cabin is smaller, the barstaff seem genuinely happy to serve you and are often looking forward to a stay in their destination. Vegas/Montego Bay, party time for the staff on the other end, and an easy shift before going.

Whether they are sourced from a single place, or not, I've found the service and attitude on the LHR flights the worst on the route. The worst of the LGW flights are better than the best of the LHR flights. Actively surly staff from the LHR flights too, and while I miss the clubhouse immensely, I also recall with a *shudder* the post flight memories "I'll not be flying with Virgin again after that" (and then cheering me up on a Carribean flight).

All these comments refer to Upper, btw. I don't have any expectations from my cabin crew on the few times I've flown PE on such routes.

Crew never work back to back. There's always at least one night downroute - two if the flight time is over 9.5 hours and very occasionally three. And they certainly don't stay in dorms - they get a single room in approved hotels.

Yes, there are some LHR routes that are unpopular with many crew - Delhi and Lagos spring to mind - but equally some that are highly sought after - LAX, SFO & Hong Kong for example. As for LGW, again some crew like working the Caribbean routes but others don't as they can involve a week away from home. And LAS is notoriously hard work, particularly in Y.

So I still maintain that a bad crew is rarely linked to whether it's a LHR or LGW flight and far more likely to be a result of internal politics (morale isn't good at the moment), poor management or personal reasons.

But inevitably a cabin with 14 seats is going to get a more personal service than one with nearly 50, so that's bound to affect your perception. My best flights have been on LHR routes though.