Covid 19 Thoughts on the likely actions in the weeks to come

Just adding our experience in case its helpful to anyone.

Originally had UC flights booked for May/June booked last year. LGW-ANU return. After seeing the info on this forum last week I sent Virgin a message via WhatsApp on Thursday requesting our flights were moved to new dates in Oct/Nov. We also noticed that the flight numbers for this route have all changed with the plane continuing to Grenada on the outbound and starting in Tobago on the return, presumably given that they have now cut some of the Caribbean routes. Surprised that the A330-200 can meet demand for these combined routes...

Anyway, got a response this morning (Tuesday). Very helpful. Moved our flights, no change fees or additional costs which given that the flights are showing as £2k more expensive on the Virgin website is a great result.

Within 2 mins of the agent confirming on WhatsApp I logged in and could see the new dates on my booking and was able to choose seats etc.

Very pleased with this result. Now just hoping things are settled by Oct...and of course that Virgin survives.

Not sure if this was mentioned already, but the rebook and finish travel before June 30th for no change fee and no difference in fare has now been extended to November 31st.

That's something I will take full advantage of...

It's widely anticipated that the UK government will formally announce later this week the lockdown will be extended for another 3 weeks. It wouldn't surprise me if this is extended to include the VE Day Weekend like the initial lockdown was until after the Easter weekend. If that's the case then I'd be surprised if VS resumes certain services on 4th May.

[honey lamb]

It's widely anticipated that the UK government will formally announce later this week the lockdown will be extended for another 3 weeks. It wouldn't surprise me if this is extended to include the VE Day Weekend like the initial lockdown was until after the Easter weekend. If that's the case then I'd be surprised if VS resumes certain services on 4th May.

That's what happened to us here over in Ireland. Our initial lockdown was till Easter Sunday but on Good Friday they extended it to May 5th which is a bank holiday here too.

Oh and as well as lockdown those of us over a certain age or with serious health issues have to cocoon which basically a slightly lesser form of self isolation. I am of that age and have been cocooning for three weeks now and it's tiresome. I'm not supposed to leave the house and only have limited contact with those in it. If I live alone, then I must get groceries etc., delivered and left on the doorstep. I'm fortunate that my son and his girlfriend dashed here the night that lockdown was announced and enforced three hours later and they have both been able to work from home. However I have only really been able to see them at our main meal taken at separate ends of the room. It's just as lonely as if they weren't there except hearing moving and talking is company itself but I have a garden and the weather is good. I pity those in tower blocks and similar accommodation who must feel really isolated. My only hope is when this is all over, I shall emerge as a beautiful butterfly!

If I were Boris, knowing his love of Churchill and a good PR opportunity when he sees it, I’d want to announce some good news on May 7th.

“75 years ago we won the Second World War, and today we’re winning this war so tonight I’m relaxing the lockdown”.

His medical and scientific advisers won’t like it but by then I suspect the Treasury may win.

If I were Boris, knowing his love of Churchill and a good PR opportunity when he sees it, I’d want to announce some good news on May 7th.

“75 years ago we won the Second World War, and today we’re winning this war so tonight I’m relaxing the lockdown”.

His medical and scientific advisers won’t like it but by then I suspect the Treasury may win.

This could be the smartest thing I’ve read on the internet all day.

Cheers gumshoe

That's all very well but VE Days is the 8th May

Exactly. Announce it the night before, then you get a huge boost in public morale on the day itself even if the relaxation is relatively modest.

Has anyone successfully been able to rebook their flights after converting to an open ticket?

I've managed to get through to VS on the SMS service twice now, and both times they've been replying every 10-20 minutes until it's gotten to the stage where they need to send me a secure payment form then they just go quiet.

Has anyone successfully been able to rebook their flights after converting to an open ticket?

I've managed to get through to VS on the SMS service twice now, and both times they've been replying every 10-20 minutes until it's gotten to the stage where they need to send me a secure payment form then they just go quiet.

Not sure about via whatsapp but on their website they have a form/link for when you know what dates you would like to switch you flight to: https://flywith.virginatlantic.com/gb/e ... ebook.html


Similarly looking to hear peoples views on switching dates for July? A bit of context - had flights to New York booked for the first week of July for my Grandads 90th. Being such a big milestone we are naturally giving the choice about cancelling i.e. rebooking more thought. On one hand this is a once in a life time milestone and given his age there is no certainty in what the future holds...equally New York is one of the worst hit regions in terms of Covid-19. Not only would we feel uneasy travelling even assuming travel was permitted and flights up and running by July, but we wouldn't want to risk his health in visiting.

Obviously this is our decision but interested to hear people's views on a) likelihood of flights going ahead in July; b) how would you feel about travelling; and c) if we decide against travel should we wait for flights to be cancelled or use the open ticket option?

Thanks in advance as always
FLYERZ

[mitchja]

I think the US and particularly New York is going to be a mess for some time yet. Things are not getting back to anything like normal yet and even when it does it certainly won’t happen overnight.

TBH I don’t think it will ever get back to how it was before all this as all surviving airlines will be shaved down to their bare minimum.

This is just my own personal opinion (not based on any insider info or anything else, just my own gut feeling) but I really think that if VS does get through all this, we won’t see the VS 747’s flying again. I also think VS will have to cut other aircraft, capacity and routes as well. Maybe the A332’s and A333’s could end up not coming back too?


I was due to fly to FLL next week (April 23rd) and I rebooked to open status successfully via the website link. Here is the automated email response I got back (before VS extended the date to May 31st 2022).

I’ve checked with VS since the date extension and this new date does apply to everyone including anyone who may have already rebooked to open status.

***** This is an acknowledgement. Please do not reply to this email *****

Thank you for emailing Virgin Atlantic, and for your patience during these unprecedented circumstances.

This email is to confirm that your ticket with Virgin Atlantic is now held as ‘open’ for travel by 30 April 2021 (we have extended the ticket validity from the original date of 31 December 2020 to give customers further peace of mind).

When you are ready to choose new dates (or choose a new destination), the simplest way to reach us is via SMS messaging. It’s quick and easy and our SMS advisors can re-book your travel, including taking secure payments. Please ensure you keep your booking reference as this will be required to rebook.

All you need to do is send us an SMS message to get started. If you are in the UK, text +44 (0)7481 339184, or just text 97634 if in the US.

Thank you

The Customer Support Team

Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd

I think that's probably a fair outlook...I saw that the Sao Paulo route after being postponed is nowing being withdrawn all together understandably - https://simpleflying.com/virgin-cancels-sao-paulo/

Much bigger airlines seem to be making drastic cuts to their fleet e.g. Lufthansa retiring >15 long haul aircraft and Air France rumoured not to fly their A380s again before scrapping. Lets hope the international efforts to lockdown start to show widespread impact over the next few weeks and then all hopes that the economic doom and gloom is somewhat mitigated

Changes to the tentative resumption of flights with some of planned routes removed for the moment ;

Virgin Atlantic during the weekend of 18APR20’s update filed additional changes to its April/May 2020 schedule. Planned temporary suspension of all scheduled passenger service from 21APR20 to 26APR20 remains unchanged. Planned cancellation on 27APR20 has been removed, as the airline’s schedule listing in the GDS displays following:

London Heathrow – Hong Kong service resumes on 27APR20, alternating days with 787-9
London Heathrow – Los Angeles service resumes on 04MAY20, 1 daily A350-1000XWB
London Heathrow – New York JFK service resumes on 27APR20, 1 daily A350-1000XWB
London Heathrow – Shanghai Pu Dong service resumption tentatively scheduled on 02MAY20, alternating days with 787-9

The airline’s interim schedule has been extended by one week to 10MAY20, as the airline removed schedule listing on other routes for travel between 04MAY20 and 10MAY20. Further changes remain possible.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... 20Atlantic

I think the US and particularly New York is going to be a mess for some time yet. Things are not getting back to anything like normal yet and even when it does it certainly won’t happen overnight.

TBH I don’t think it will ever get back to how it was before all this as all surviving airlines will be shaved down to their bare minimum.

This is just my own personal opinion (not based on any insider info or anything else, just my own gut feeling) but I really think that if VS does get through all this, we won’t see the VS 747’s flying again. I also think VS will have to cut other aircraft, capacity and routes as well. Maybe the A332’s and A333’s could end up not coming back too?

Yes I too think the US is going to be a mess for some time. I’m still keeping my fingers crossed my trip to Florida in September will go ahead as planned, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it doesn’t happen.

I also think this will be the end of the 747’s. VS and others did the exact same thing post-9/11 withdrawing the 747-200’s and BA have brought forward 747 retirements by permanently withdrawing them. A few have already been sent to Kemble or Teruel for scrap. If there are fleet cuts as a result of this downturn, it will be the oldest aircraft or anything already earmarked for withdrawal in the medium term that go first.

[mitchja]

Whilst this doesn’t appear to be on the VS website yet, for any tickets purchased before 19th March, the travel period cancellation waiver window has been extended again to the end of June 2020 now.

I’ve just received this via VS Trade:

Eligibility only for passengers with an original ticket issue date on/before 19 March 2020


Original Travel Date
Affected Destination
Permitted Travel Period


01 March 2020 – 30 June 2020

VS issued tickets

from / to / through
All Destinations when travelling on a VS/VS* Flight
Number

Where rebooked travel finishes by 30 November
2020, no fare difference or change fee will be charged

Where rebooked travel occurs on/after 01
December 2020, change
fee will be waived but fare
difference will be charged

Latest estimate of 45 to 54 days before a refund is made.

LATEST ON REFUNDS:

Ref. my upcoming flight to Vegas:
1) The flight just quietly disappeared from the VA schedules, as if it never had existed.
2) My booking still appeared as "live" however...
3) I was not sent a cancellation notice. Still haven't.
4) After one and a half hours on the phone, I finally got hold of someone.
5) After a bit of an argument, they eventually agreed that my flight had actually been cancelled.
6) They tried to talk me into taking a voucher; but that would be of no use to me, as I explained.
7) They then said they would refund my payment, but the PROCESS wouldn't even start for AT LEAST 100 days...

Not convinced that I'll ever see my money back.

They said they would refund my payment, but the PROCESS wouldn't even start for AT LEAST 100 days...

Not convinced that I'll ever see my money back.

That’s not encouraging.

However as long as you booked with VS direct and paid by credit card you’re guaranteed to get it back, even if they collapse.

If you booked via a TA and/or used a debit card it’s not guaranteed but still a chance.

Latest estimate of 45 to 54 days before a refund is made.

LATEST ON REFUNDS:

Ref. my upcoming flight to Vegas:
1) The flight just quietly disappeared from the VA schedules, as if it never had existed.
2) My booking still appeared as "live" however...
3) I was not sent a cancellation notice. Still haven't.
4) After one and a half hours on the phone, I finally got hold of someone.
5) After a bit of an argument, they eventually agreed that my flight had actually been cancelled.
6) They tried to talk me into taking a voucher; but that would be of no use to me, as I explained.
7) They then said they would refund my payment, but the PROCESS wouldn't even start for AT LEAST 100 days...

Not convinced that I'll ever see my money back.

Issue them with a clear notice in writing stating that they have 14 days to provide a refund, or you will pursue them via MCOL.

Issue them with a clear notice in writing stating that they have 14 days to provide a refund, or you will pursue them via MCOL.

No need to go to all that trouble if you paid by credit card. If VS won’t refund you in a reasonable time, just submit a section 75 claim with your card company.

The money’s often refunded instantly - with the caveat that it can be clawed back if VS challenge it and win.

I’ve been very impressed by Amex dispute resolution. Submitted three refund requests for Air Asia (three separate flights), two for Easyjet, one for Aegean and one for Norwegian and all bar the Norwegian went from “open” to “closed” status (with refund confirmed) in less than thirty minutes. Didn’t even need to upload any evidence for those ones. The Norwegian stayed pending for a week and Amex requested PDF of e-ticket, this one was circa £1k and this morning it has been credited.

Have just successfully got my Virgin car hire money refunded via section 75 with Amex, as it was nearly 45 days since Virgin said the refund was on its way. Just received the letter from Amex saying if Virgin dispute they will take it back as Gumshoe said.

Have now also booked for Vegas next Easter with BA, lets hope we can go on that one. Linda

I’ve been very impressed by Amex dispute resolution.

Likewise here for three separate airlines ( Air Asia, Vueling and BA) .

DL

From VS trade;

Schedule
Virgin Atlantic continues to review its flying programme each day, with a reduced schedule of passenger services. Virgin Atlantic has made the decision to move its current scheduled services to cargo-only services until 17 May.

The following scheduled services will move to cargo-only flights:

London Heathrow - New York JFK from the 21 April - 17 May
London Heathrow - Hong Kong from the 20 April – 17 May
London Heathrow - Los Angeles from the 20 April – 17 May

Refunds;
Virgin Atlantic wants to offer as much flexibility as possible for agents and our customers impacted by the rapidly accelerating Covid-19 situation. As we deal with unprecedented enquiry volumes, we are temporarily removing automatic refunds via GDS, with requests now administrated via BSPLink. The revised process means it may take longer than usual to provide the refund and we are grateful for the patience of our partners. Agents may also offer customers with upcoming travel plans the option to rebook free-of-charge, change their destination or date of travel, or hold their ticket open.

Latest estimate of 45 to 54 days before a refund is made.

LATEST ON REFUNDS:

Ref. my upcoming flight to Vegas:
1) The flight just quietly disappeared from the VA schedules, as if it never had existed.
2) My booking still appeared as "live" however...
3) I was not sent a cancellation notice. Still haven't.
4) After one and a half hours on the phone, I finally got hold of someone.
5) After a bit of an argument, they eventually agreed that my flight had actually been cancelled.
6) They tried to talk me into taking a voucher; but that would be of no use to me, as I explained.
7) They then said they would refund my payment, but the PROCESS wouldn't even start for AT LEAST 100 days...

Not convinced that I'll ever see my money back.

Sounds like they are moving towards the Air France - KLM position of no refunds at all for a year(!), and they have persuaded AMEX to not file any S75 claims against them.

Sounds like ... they have persuaded AMEX to not file any S75 claims against them.

How do you draw that conclusion?