Virgin Holidays Cancellation

I hope everyone is managing to stay safe!

I'm a bit confused regarding my options for a Virgin Holidays booking cancellation:
- Booked in January 2020 to travel Apri 23rd 2020
- Paid using VS miles and some cash
- Booking has been cancelled by Virgin Holidays (no surprises there)
- Virgin Holidays issued a 'COVID-19 Refund Travel note' for the full amount of the holiday (i.e. total invoiced amount, miles plus cash)

I have a few questions and I wondered if anyone here might be able to answer before I spend half the day on hold...
- I assume the 'COVID-19 Refund Travel note' essentially a credit note, i.e. redeemable against a new holiday booking? I don't have anything that explicitly states it's purpose
- Or is the 'COVID-19 Refund Travel note' a notice of a full refund?
- My online booking at Virgin Holidays says I should receive an email with a 'voucher'. I have not received such an email. There is however a link to a new 'invoice' that turns out to be the 'COVID-19 Refund Travel note'
- Anyone any idea on what my options are for a full refund? And how that works in regards to the miles and cash elements? I'm sure I've read somewhere that the miles I've used to pay are at risk here?
- Anyone else had their Virgin Holiday cancelled that can offer further adivce?

Thanks!

I had the same cancellation note.
When i received it, I rang them up to discuss my options, whether I wanted a refund or rebook another holiday.
My original plan was to get a refund which was offered, but I had already put a deposit on another holiday on the website for the same time next year (which apparently wasn't available when looking at moving my existing holiday to those dates).
The full value of my cancelled holiday was transferred onto the booking without hesitation, so it is now paid in full.

A quick update for those interested.

I did manage to get through to VH within the 72 hour phone contact window and requested a refund. The agent confirmed both the cash and miles would be refunded. I'm still waiting, a month on, for the refund to arrive. They've simply ghosted everyone as far as I can tell from an anecdotal scroll through various forums and Facebook travel groups. There's literally no means of meaningful contact at all now for those not due to originally travel in the next 72 hours.

Unprecedented times maybe, but this is turning into a real fiasco in my eyes. There are very few (even on here ) that love to fly with VS than me. Granted my particular quarrel is with VH and not specifically with VS, but the handling of all this is really pointing to a company/companies in a dire situation. I'd really hate to see them go under. But I fear now that even if they don't, there is so much damage being done to the brand that it will make recovery even harder.

[mitchja]

The problem is and this applies to both VS, V Hols and indeed many other companies through all of is the total lack of self-service options.

Many companies are still way too reliant on contact centres in this day and age and anything like this COVID-19 situation and the contact centres all fall apart as we have all seen for most companies.

If these companies improved their IT systems and offered easier (in the case of VS & V Hols) any self service options via either the website or the app you would be able to request changes and or refunds automatically.

Delta are able to offer way more self-service options via their app and website so why can’t VS when they both use the same system?

I really think all of this should be a big wake up call to many companies to improve their self-service options going forwards.

I think the Virgin Atlantic and Holiday brand is irretrievably damaged qbeyond repair now. As some one previously said, they are basically just "ghosting" their customers. This will also, I feel, have a knock on effect to the wider Virgin group of brands. The way SRB is handling this situation is ludicrous and beyond contempt. Why are they treating their customers including their loyal long term base with such contempt? When and if new creditors come to the rescue of VS or its remnants, I can see them rebranding or a very serious restructuring at least, as a condition of their involvement. Very sad demise of a once great airline.

I think the Virgin Atlantic and Holiday brand is irretrievably damaged qbeyond repair now. As some one previously said, they are basically just "ghosting" their customers. This will also, I feel, have a knock on effect to the wider Virgin group of brands. The way SRB is handling this situation is ludicrous and beyond contempt. Why are they treating their customers including their loyal long term base with such contempt? When and if new creditors come to the rescue of VS or its remnants, I can see them rebranding or a very serious restructuring at least, as a condition of their involvement. Very sad demise of a once great airline.

The public have short memories. Think of all the PR disasters BA have had to deal with over the last few years, failing IT, service cuts, strikes, etc. You'd think their brand would be tattered beyong repair, but nope. Still flying millions each year. People will go with the familiar or whoever is cheapest.

The problem is and this applies to both VS, V Hols and indeed many other companies through all of is the total lack of self-service options.

Many companies are still way too reliant on contact centres in this day and age and anything like this COVID-19 situation and the contact centres all fall apart as we have all seen for most companies.

If these companies improved their IT systems and offered easier (in the case of VS & V Hols) any self service options via either the website or the app you would be able to request changes and or refunds automatically.

Delta are able to offer way more self-service options via their app and website so why can’t VS when they both use the same system?

I really think all of this should be a big wake up call to many companies to improve their self-service options going forwards.

I think it’s very clear that the travel industry, with some honourable exceptions, is deliberately making it as hard as possible to claim cash refunds for cancellations.

This is nothing to do with shoddy IT. VS and many others - cruise lines are being particularly dreadful - are simply doing all they can to hold on to their customers’ cash for as long as possible.

Absolutely atrocious really. But, as another poster said, people have short memories. Launch a sale with £250 fares to Orlando in Y and £1200 to LAX in J, and watch those planes fill in minutes. If they ever fly again ...

The problem is and this applies to both VS, V Hols and indeed many other companies through all of is the total lack of self-service options.

Many companies are still way too reliant on contact centres in this day and age and anything like this COVID-19 situation and the contact centres all fall apart as we have all seen for most companies.

If these companies improved their IT systems and offered easier (in the case of VS & V Hols) any self service options via either the website or the app you would be able to request changes and or refunds automatically.

Delta are able to offer way more self-service options via their app and website so why can’t VS when they both use the same system?

I really think all of this should be a big wake up call to many companies to improve their self-service options going forwards.

You seem to be suggesting that VH are not providing refunds because of contact centre staff problems due to COVID19. Surely you don't actually believe this? Clearly it is because they are desperately conserving cash.

No industry (travel included) had plans or processes in places for tens of millions of customers all demanding refunds at the same time. It's never happened before.

Where is that cash going to come from? Businesses work on cashflow, it's a very fundamental part of how business works. Right now, there is way more cash going out than there is coming in. So where is the cash going to come from for these refunds? In the case of VS, the liability here is almost certainly in the hundreds of millions on top of their liabilities prior to COVID.

The only option most businesses have, is do everything they can to survive right now and when cashflow restarts, they can slowly refund the customers that have requested it.

Don't get me wrong, it sucks BIG TIME. And there are people that need their cash back, but the reality is... thats extremely difficult to do when there is no money to give.

The problem is and this applies to both VS, V Hols and indeed many other companies through all of is the total lack of self-service options.

Many companies are still way too reliant on contact centres in this day and age and anything like this COVID-19 situation and the contact centres all fall apart as we have all seen for most companies.

If these companies improved their IT systems and offered easier (in the case of VS & V Hols) any self service options via either the website or the app you would be able to request changes and or refunds automatically.

Delta are able to offer way more self-service options via their app and website so why can’t VS when they both use the same system?

I really think all of this should be a big wake up call to many companies to improve their self-service options going forwards.

You seem to be suggesting that VH are not providing refunds because of contact centre staff problems due to COVID19. Surely you don't actually believe this? Clearly it is because they are desperately conserving cash.

So a bit like most other airlines and travel companies then?

Three weeks ago, I received confirmation that an easyJet flight I was due to take a fortnight ago was cancelled - I knew it wasn't going to happen anyway, but I had to wait for official confirmation first. An option I was offered was a full refund which I applied for, as the rebooking or credit voucher options didn't appeal to me not knowing how COVID-19 is going to pan out. I was told it would take up to 28 days to process, but as of now, I am still waiting for easyJet to refund me.

I suspect it's a combination of cashflow and the volume of processing refunds, both of which are unprecedented. That's not me being an apologist, it's just me applying logic to what is a scenario that has now far more disruptive and having more lasting effects than the disruption caused by the Icelandic volcano ash cloud in Spring 2010.

So a bit like most other airlines and travel companies then?

Three weeks ago, I received confirmation that an easyJet flight I was due to take a fortnight ago was cancelled - I knew it wasn't going to happen anyway, but I had to wait for official confirmation first. An option I was offered was a full refund which I applied for, as the rebooking or credit voucher options didn't appeal to me not knowing how COVID-19 is going to pan out. I was told it would take up to 28 days to process, but as of now, I am still waiting for easyJet to refund me.

I suspect it's a combination of cashflow and the volume of processing refunds, both of which are unprecedented. That's not me being an apologist, it's just me applying logic to what is a scenario that has now far more disruptive and having more lasting effects than the disruption caused by the Icelandic volcano ash cloud in Spring 2010.

This is a Virgin forum and I'm responding to a post about Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Holidays. They don't have the money to refund because they've already spent it before providing the flights/holiday. They were waiting for money for new bookings to fund existing operations, but along came COVID19. That was the risk they took. Some other travel providers like Trailfinders keep their clients' money in a trust account so that pipeline monies are not spent in this way. Others like BA, Ryanair and Easyjet built up sufficient reserves to 'save for a rainy day. Virgin chose not to do either. Now they can't afford refunds and all this stuff about not having the staff to do it is just bluster and smokescreen. Bottom line, they don't have the money for refunds because they have already spent it.

So a bit like most other airlines and travel companies then?

Three weeks ago, I received confirmation that an easyJet flight I was due to take a fortnight ago was cancelled - I knew it wasn't going to happen anyway, but I had to wait for official confirmation first. An option I was offered was a full refund which I applied for, as the rebooking or credit voucher options didn't appeal to me not knowing how COVID-19 is going to pan out. I was told it would take up to 28 days to process, but as of now, I am still waiting for easyJet to refund me.

I suspect it's a combination of cashflow and the volume of processing refunds, both of which are unprecedented. That's not me being an apologist, it's just me applying logic to what is a scenario that has now far more disruptive and having more lasting effects than the disruption caused by the Icelandic volcano ash cloud in Spring 2010.

This is a Virgin forum and I'm responding to a post about Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Holidays. They don't have the money to refund because they've already spent it before providing the flights/holiday. They were waiting for money for new bookings to fund existing operations, but along came COVID19. That was the risk they took. Some other travel providers like Trailfinders keep their clients' money in a trust account so that pipeline monies are not spent in this way. Others like BA, Ryanair and Easyjet built up sufficient reserves to 'save for a rainy day. Virgin chose not to do either. Now they can't afford refunds and all this stuff about not having the staff to do it is just bluster and smokescreen. Bottom line, they don't have the money for refunds because they have already spent it.

Unfortunately you’ll be berated if you post anything negative on this forum about their beloved Virgin.

Happened to me when I made a post asking advice about a mistake I made by turning up at the airport with two expired ESTAs. Managed to get new ESTAs approved 2hrs before flight but they still wouldn’t let us board. So ended up having to get a later flight with change fees added.

Turns out everyone on this forum was wrong with respect to it wasn’t Virgins fault we weren’t allowed to board.

I received refunds from Virgin for the flight change fees and enough miles for another reward flight as compo. Not that I’d use the miles, as I won’t give Virgin my business again after that fiasco.

As luck would have it, I booked American Airlines for flights to LA at the beginning of May. They cancelled the flight and the money was refunded to my card within 10 days. So Virgin actually for once did me a favour.

I personally don’t think that’s fair saying that no one on here will allow negative words about Virgin. I think through trip reports and queries in the forum it’s clear whilst generally people love Virgin granted, a big part of this forum is to critique and highlight issues thereby trying to help others through them and bring to attention areas of improvement that can be read and passed on to Corporate. The value of this forum would be very undermined if we all closed our ears to the negative.


In terms of Virgin spending your money rather than keeping these in reserves, the travel sector - airlines , travel agents and tour operators are subject to industry regulations. The regulator sets a ratio or % of customer deposits/payments which must be kept as mentioned above in escrow or ringfenced. Even in the current unprecedented time I don’t think the regulator has relaxed these rules therefore Virgin and any other travel company that has ‘spent your money’ has done so in compliance with all regulations to the same extent they always have. Whether this is fair or works in a situation like now when so many want their money back is another question.

Having said all of this, companies will be in different positions from a cash perspective which I believe is driving some variance in timings for refund payments. I’m not sure I believe that Easyjet and BA or most arlines/TAs have enough cash reserves to refund everyone that is eligible without stretching the refund turnaround time. One thing is certain though that all airlines/travel agents are trying to conserve cash and therefore what was a 2 week window (I think) for most pre-covid is probably looking at 4 weeks plus across the board.

Steeping away from travel all businesses are doing things to preserve cash, defering payments etc but its the operating model of the travel sector that (annoyingly for millions of tourists) is driving this behaviour.

It’s also worth considering that credit card companies withhold a lot of cash from these companies so they can’t access it to refund customers too. I’ve moved my booking but had paid a fair fee for exit seats in the bubble. I know once the aircraft is changed I’ll be at the back of a very very long line of customers awaiting their money back. It’s so sad and the customer service should be better despite what’s happening. If the online system was better , it should allow customers to move bookings or request refunds/vouchers that way.

This is a Virgin forum and I'm responding to a post about Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Holidays. They don't have the money to refund because they've already spent it before providing the flights/holiday. They were waiting for money for new bookings to fund existing operations, but along came COVID19. That was the risk they took. Some other travel providers like Trailfinders keep their clients' money in a trust account so that pipeline monies are not spent in this way. Others like BA, Ryanair and Easyjet built up sufficient reserves to 'save for a rainy day. Virgin chose not to do either. Now they can't afford refunds and all this stuff about not having the staff to do it is just bluster and smokescreen. Bottom line, they don't have the money for refunds because they have already spent it.

Do you have any evidence to back up your claim they've spent the cash?

As for easyJet, if they have sufficient reserves then why am I still waiting for a refund over 3 weeks later? You mention Ryanair, you do realise Michael O'Leary is on record recently saying that it's going to take them up to 6 months for them to process refunds and also specifically cited reduced numbers of staff? Or is one man's word more truthful than the other? Remember this is the same person who is famous for never giving refunds, but here he is promising refunds for those who want one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52498691

Unfortunately you’ll be berated if you post anything negative on this forum about their beloved Virgin.

With the greatest of respect, that's not true.

I have been on this forum for 14 years (some of that time I was admittedly a dormant member not posting anything for a while) and I have seen plenty of negative comments posted. As far as I can tell, Pete and the moderators have never disallowed negative posts on this forum and even a quick read at some of the TR's posted by the moderators and others will reveal negative comments where they've been justified.

Finally, one thing to remember is that when posting on a public forum everybody has the right to reply, so if somebody posts something they can expect to be challenged. If people are capable of having a healthy debate and discussion about it, then great.

P.S. I was sorry to read about your ESTA issues.

Firstly I would like to say that VA have been my carrier of choice since 1996 . I have flown with them on hundreds of occasions and I can honestly say I can count on one hand how many bad flights I have had. I also have some experience with how call centres work and I don’t claim to know how Virgins does but with my own personal experiences it has been mixed at best. The front line operators are all very polite and well trained but I always get the impression their job is to do the bare minimum and give away as little as possible. God forbid you need to escalate your request to a manager then it is like asking to speak to Richard Branson. Then if you manage to get to speak to a manager you get a very different tone. What I am trying to say is if things are going right they are fantastic but if it is not then they are most definitely not and I think it is due to instructions from upper management which boarders on arrogance. I have tried to get a refund on car hire which they cancelled then decided it was me who cancelled it! I have rebooked up coming flights instead of refunds - but starting to regret it as it looks like you are more likely to win the lottery than get a refund. I phoned virgin money, as paid on virgin credit card, to request a section 75 to get the money back . ( I know it is not a lot of money in grand scheme of things but thought it would be a good test case if or when I will have to get the substantial amount they might owe me for upcoming flight). Eventually got through to a very pleasant person at Virgin money call centre and explained the situation and she said she couldn’t process a section 75 until I have been through the citizen advise bureau! Polightly but firmly told her I don’t think so. Then she said MasterCard will only look at it as a last resort! She then said we can try a charge back but it would take up to 21 days to send the form out and I had to send all the Correspondence from Virgin. A bit different from pressing a button on your Amex app.