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#955762 by rubytuesday
06 May 2020, 05:02
Going to be interesting.

We booked to go to Vegas in October and VS had 2 charter flights on in October using the A332 from Gatwick to Vegas running under the old VS43 number,
We booked the outbound on this VS43 as going out from gatwick is so much easier for us but returning in to Heathrow via LAX.
Wonder if this charter will still go giving it is on the A332.
If not looks like we will be moved onto the 787 Heathrow Vegas instead.
#955767 by FLYERZ
07 May 2020, 00:17
How does this work practically speaking I wonder. Slots aside, would the check in areas and clubhouse just remain in tact as is, on hold for a return at some point? Under normal circumstances I wouldn't expect so but given demand is likely to be low for a while the above probably aren't going to be snapped up by another airline any time soon. It cam only be a short time since the whole BA/VS terminal swap and refurb too.
#955770 by VS075
07 May 2020, 09:56
rubytuesday wrote:Going to be interesting.

We booked to go to Vegas in October and VS had 2 charter flights on in October using the A332 from Gatwick to Vegas running under the old VS43 number,
We booked the outbound on this VS43 as going out from gatwick is so much easier for us but returning in to Heathrow via LAX.
Wonder if this charter will still go giving it is on the A332.
If not looks like we will be moved onto the 787 Heathrow Vegas instead.


I'd have thought charter flights are unaffected as the clue is in the name. That said, I would get in touch with them to check just to be sure. They're no doubt busy handling those affected by the LGW withdrawal as well as anybody who was meant to travel now/very soon, but as it's LGW you've got a good reason to call them.

FLYERZ wrote:How does this work practically speaking I wonder. Slots aside, would the check in areas and clubhouse just remain in tact as is, on hold for a return at some point? Under normal circumstances I wouldn't expect so but given demand is likely to be low for a while the above probably aren't going to be snapped up by another airline any time soon. It cam only be a short time since the whole BA/VS terminal swap and refurb too.


I'd have thought the desks would return to the airport to use for other airlines. No idea about the Clubhouse, but if there's rent involved I'd be surprised if they keep hold of it in a mothballed state as surely it will cost money and isn't that one reason for pulling out of LGW?
#955771 by evanspa1
07 May 2020, 10:04
VS075 wrote:No idea about the Clubhouse, but if there's rent involved I'd be surprised if they keep hold of it in a mothballed state as surely it will cost money and isn't that one reason for pulling out of LGW?


Presumably they've signed a long lease on the space / will have to pay business rates etc. Would it make sense to temporarily turn it into a paid lounge - assuming the terminal stays open? That way they could hopefully cover their costs and allow staff to stay on, until they can justify launching services again from LGW?
#955781 by tontybear
07 May 2020, 16:52
FLYERZ wrote:How does this work practically speaking I wonder. Slots aside, would the check in areas and clubhouse just remain in tact as is, on hold for a return at some point? Under normal circumstances I wouldn't expect so but given demand is likely to be low for a while the above probably aren't going to be snapped up by another airline any time soon. It cam only be a short time since the whole BA/VS terminal swap and refurb too.


As an aside the whole terminal swap that happened in January 2017 was to enable Easyjet to consolidate in North and BA and VS(amongst others) moving was required for that to happen.

Basically airlines rent space from airports (BA don't own T5 at LHR for T7 at JFK for example) so it would come down to what LGW want to to or at the moment are able do with the space instead. Most branding at check-in is now electronic so can easily be changed. Other signs can be easiy removed or covered up.

But as you say who is going to start up new routes or expand their network? BA like VS are consolidating at the moment at LHR. Norwegian has also retracted and IIRC have said they won't start up until the middle of next year.

Slots are more tricky. The 80/20 rule needs to be eased for much longer than the present period so that airlines do not lose them because of currently temporary closing down operations.

Equally an airline can't be allowed to keep sitting on them for ever. Someone needs to take a decision on this soon but it's an international issue and requires regulators across the world to act in a coordinateed way. No good UK / EU easing the rule but what do airline do if they lose their JFK slots because the Americans won't do the same?

The only airline I know that is keen to start up on TATL routes is Jet Blue. Perhaps they can operate for a while using the current spare capacity at LGW rather than having to buy / lease a slot?
#955783 by rubytuesday
07 May 2020, 19:20
VS075 wrote:
rubytuesday wrote:Going to be interesting.

We booked to go to Vegas in October and VS had 2 charter flights on in October using the A332 from Gatwick to Vegas running under the old VS43 number,
We booked the outbound on this VS43 as going out from gatwick is so much easier for us but returning in to Heathrow via LAX.
Wonder if this charter will still go giving it is on the A332.
If not looks like we will be moved onto the 787 Heathrow Vegas instead.


I'd have thought charter flights are unaffected as the clue is in the name. That said, I would get in touch with them to check just to be sure. They're no doubt busy handling those affected by the LGW withdrawal as well as anybody who was meant to travel now/very soon, but as it's LGW you've got a good reason to call them.[/quote]



Yeah thats what i was thinking as well however i am not going until october. My balance is due at the start of July so i imagine i would have heard something by then if not i will give them a call and query it as Heathrow is not exactly ideal for us to go from so may have no option sadly.

There are people travelling alot sooner than me who need to speak to them at the present so i would rather keep the line free for them. :)
#955787 by trusse03
07 May 2020, 21:30
We're due to fly from Gatwick at the end of October, will they automatically transfer us to Heathrow, or do you think they may offer the option of going from Manchester instead?

We booked Gatwick at the time because it was an awful lot cheaper, but Manchester is in fact easier for us.

I'm just glad it looks like we'll still be flying tbh, but things can easily change I know.
#955789 by FLYERZ
07 May 2020, 23:47
TimCrawley wrote:
For the islands it's obviously very difficult economically....


I agree the Caribbean will really suffer from this given their dependence on tourism and I dare say their capability to cope with longer term social distancing or health screening on arrival .etc. Looking at it from a LGW perspective as well I'm not sure what implications the VS move to LHR will have - particular on the sustainability of serving smaller islands such as Grenada and Tobago.
#955790 by Virginlondon
08 May 2020, 09:39
A huge disappointment and thoughts with all those affected. I had planned a final 747 flight to burn some old miles.

Virgin are clearly being forced to restructure to guarantee investment to survive. They’ll be back at Gatwick at some point. At least 12 months, but maybe 24. Gatwick know what’s going on and will want them back ASAP. The clubhouse will be waiting for them. Unfortunately Gatwick is going to take a big short term hit as I expect all carriers that fly to Heathrow too will pause flights too.

Personally I will fly ASAP. I was far more concerned after 9/11. It’s been a terrible virus, but it’s been around a lot longer than we realise and it does cause certain groups of people more of an issue. This is most likely our 2nd wave as our office had an outbreak last November of something that floored people for 2 weeks with the same symptoms. My symptoms were fortunately mild.

I want the airline industry to survive and thrive and it needs our support to do so. Zoom is ok, but meeting customers in person is much more powerful.
#955800 by Moley
09 May 2020, 08:55
Given VS now have an overseas tie-up with priority pass, it’s probably more cost effective to keep the LGW lounges open than remove then reconstruct in future.

Also open them up to code-share partners.

Ultimately that calculation will depend on exactly how long they expect to be away from LGW which I suspect is more linked to how long until VS’s capacity slot at LHR is used up. If other airline can’t use their slots, you can imagine VS sub leasing more until the cost benefit tips in favour of returning to LGW.
#955801 by gumshoe
09 May 2020, 09:45
Moley wrote:Ultimately that calculation will depend on exactly how long they expect to be away from LGW which I suspect is more linked to how long until VS’s capacity slot at LHR is used up.


I suspect it'll be a while. Certainly years rather than months.

EWR has already gone so that's one slot pair free right now. JFK will probably only need to be twice daily, maybe three, so that's another two or three slots saved. BOS, DEL, JNB, LAX, MIA and SFO could all go down to once daily instead of twice until demand returns.

So there'll be more than enough capacity for the LGW roster, and that's without dumping any more routes entirely which must be a distinct possibility, particularly if the mooted 14 day self-isolation on arrival policy is in place for any length of time (and the US is likely to do something similar).
#955808 by flyingfox
09 May 2020, 18:24
Moley wrote:Given VS now have an overseas tie-up with priority pass, it’s probably more cost effective to keep the LGW lounges open than remove then reconstruct in future.

Also open them up to code-share partners.

Ultimately that calculation will depend on exactly how long they expect to be away from LGW which I suspect is more linked to how long until VS’s capacity slot at LHR is used up. If other airline can’t use their slots, you can imagine VS sub leasing more until the cost benefit tips in favour of returning to LGW.


VS updated their website yesterday and confirmed the closure of the LGW Clubhouse;

https://flywith.virginatlantic.com/gb/e ... house.html
#955810 by chumba
09 May 2020, 19:43
A friend who is booked to travel LGW-MCO in August has been told his flight will be going from LHR, but no timings yet.

I looked for LGW-MCO in November 2020 and it would allow me to book using cash or miles it even gives flight times. Surely they would have amended the website and stopped this happening unless they think they will be back at LGW by then?

Or are they taking the money and then changing flight details,or even cancelling ? Bit naughty if they are.
#955839 by Moley
11 May 2020, 18:39
flyingfox wrote:
Moley wrote:Given VS now have an overseas tie-up with priority pass, it’s probably more cost effective to keep the LGW lounges open than remove then reconstruct in future.

Also open them up to code-share partners.

Ultimately that calculation will depend on exactly how long they expect to be away from LGW which I suspect is more linked to how long until VS’s capacity slot at LHR is used up. If other airline can’t use their slots, you can imagine VS sub leasing more until the cost benefit tips in favour of returning to LGW.


VS updated their website yesterday and confirmed the closure of the LGW Clubhouse;

https://flywith.virginatlantic.com/gb/e ... house.html

Given how new they are, I do wonder if they will just come into use after a de-brand. It could even be subleased to another operator. Obviously if a pre-pack happens then a the now-onerous lease just stays in the failing company.
#955844 by Sealink
12 May 2020, 08:45
VS075 wrote:
rubytuesday wrote:Going to be interesting.

We booked to go to Vegas in October and VS had 2 charter flights on in October using the A332 from Gatwick to Vegas running under the old VS43 number,
We booked the outbound on this VS43 as going out from gatwick is so much easier for us but returning in to Heathrow via LAX.
Wonder if this charter will still go giving it is on the A332.
If not looks like we will be moved onto the 787 Heathrow Vegas instead.


I'd have thought charter flights are unaffected as the clue is in the name. That said, I would get in touch with them to check just to be sure. They're no doubt busy handling those affected by the LGW withdrawal as well as anybody who was meant to travel now/very soon, but as it's LGW you've got a good reason to call them.

FLYERZ wrote:How does this work practically speaking I wonder. Slots aside, would the check in areas and clubhouse just remain in tact as is, on hold for a return at some point? Under normal circumstances I wouldn't expect so but given demand is likely to be low for a while the above probably aren't going to be snapped up by another airline any time soon. It cam only be a short time since the whole BA/VS terminal swap and refurb too.


I'd have thought the desks would return to the airport to use for other airlines. No idea about the Clubhouse, but if there's rent involved I'd be surprised if they keep hold of it in a mothballed state as surely it will cost money and isn't that one reason for pulling out of LGW?


This is the first time I have heard of a charter flight using a scheduled flight number. Are you sure it is charter and not just a tour operator who has bought seats on a scheduled service?
#955921 by sunshinebob
16 May 2020, 08:38
Virgin should be letting passengers know where and when their flights are going from.

Its not good enough to say we are moving out of Gatwick without telling people the exact details of their new flights.

Passengers need to book hotels , car parks, coaches and connections and time marches on.

They must have those details - please release them....
#955922 by pem
16 May 2020, 08:57
I have been a regular VS customer for 25 years now so am not biased against them

I feel that if VS pull out of Gatwick then their arrival/departure slots at Gatwick should be forfeited and made available to any airline brave enough to start up flights again

Use them or lose them
#955923 by gumshoe
16 May 2020, 09:27
sunshinebob wrote:Virgin should be letting passengers know where and when their flights are going from.

Its not good enough to say we are moving out of Gatwick without telling people the exact details of their new flights.

Passengers need to book hotels , car parks, coaches and connections and time marches on.

They must have those details - please release them....


As of this morning LHR-MCO flights are bookable. I picked a couple of random dates in November and April and found the following:

Autumn/winter 2020 - on an A333:
VS91 dep LHR 1050 arr MCO 1525
VS92 dep MCO 1920 arr LHR 0820

Spring/summer 2021 - on a B789:
VS91 dep LHR 1330 arr MCO 1745
VS92 dep MCO 2005 arr LHR 0920

Obviously all subject to change, and nothing seemingly available until Oct 25 (before then the old LGW flights are still showing but will presumably move over and be consolidated once they start flying again).

And only flexible fares are available at this stage, as per normal when booking first opens to snare the worrywarts. But there is progress.
#955925 by FLYERZ
16 May 2020, 10:14
I did similar this morning looking at the Gatwick destinations - Orlando, Barbados, Montego Bay, Grenada via Antigua and Tobago via Antigua. All the caribbean routes were A330-300s for the several dates I checked. Orlando was showing a mix of 787, A330-300 and A330-200 with the MAN-MCO mix of A330-300/200. Suggests that A330-200s may generally be based in MAN but at least one my cycle through LHR on the MCO flights. Given the slot pairs VS have surely being able to move LGW to LHR must mean that some other routes are reducing frequencies? Although TLV is increasing to double daily and granted LGW routes total 3-4 on a busy day.
#955926 by mitchja
16 May 2020, 10:24
I think it's safe to say the number of JFK flights will be cut from LHR (5 down to 3 or even possibly 2 initially)?

I suspect the second newer BOS flight will go too. SFO or even possibly LAX could drop to 1 flight a day each as well?
#955927 by FLYERZ
16 May 2020, 10:35
Obviously the schedule can change and imagine will be lighter for the rest of this year butfrom what is showing currently April-21 still showing 5x JFK and x2 BOS. Interestingly one of the LHR-JFK rotations is set to be on the A330-200, again suggesting they won't be solely based in MAN. A350s appear on JFK, LOS, JNB, ATL and LAX

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-16may20/

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-16may20/
Last edited by FLYERZ on 16 May 2020, 14:32, edited 1 time in total.
#955928 by gumshoe
16 May 2020, 10:56
Given you can still book a flight on a 747 from LGW until October, I’d take everything with a big pinch of salt right now.

Continuing to sell flights they’ve already said won’t be operating is naughty.
#955929 by Traveller2
16 May 2020, 11:39
BA are doing the same thing. I went through the entire booking process (except for payment) for a flight to Jersey and it still said it was going from LGW....as did their Orlando flights I looked at. No mention at all of going from LHR.
#955963 by rubytuesday
18 May 2020, 01:00
Sealink wrote:
VS075 wrote:
rubytuesday wrote:Going to be interesting.

We booked to go to Vegas in October and VS had 2 charter flights on in October using the A332 from Gatwick to Vegas running under the old VS43 number,
We booked the outbound on this VS43 as going out from gatwick is so much easier for us but returning in to Heathrow via LAX.
Wonder if this charter will still go giving it is on the A332.
If not looks like we will be moved onto the 787 Heathrow Vegas instead.


I'd have thought charter flights are unaffected as the clue is in the name. That said, I would get in touch with them to check just to be sure. They're no doubt busy handling those affected by the LGW withdrawal as well as anybody who was meant to travel now/very soon, but as it's LGW you've got a good reason to call them.

FLYERZ wrote:How does this work practically speaking I wonder. Slots aside, would the check in areas and clubhouse just remain in tact as is, on hold for a return at some point? Under normal circumstances I wouldn't expect so but given demand is likely to be low for a while the above probably aren't going to be snapped up by another airline any time soon. It cam only be a short time since the whole BA/VS terminal swap and refurb too.


I'd have thought the desks would return to the airport to use for other airlines. No idea about the Clubhouse, but if there's rent involved I'd be surprised if they keep hold of it in a mothballed state as surely it will cost money and isn't that one reason for pulling out of LGW?


This is the first time I have heard of a charter flight using a scheduled flight number. Are you sure it is charter and not just a tour operator who has bought seats on a scheduled service?



I doubt it very much as i booked with Virgin holidays They also confirmed when i questioned in case it was an error in the system that the are operating that flight 2 times only this year from Gatwick in October.
so i am sure they know what flights there own company is operating. Just done a mock booking and tested it. If i pop my departure day in i can book a ticket on that flight i am going on. If i select Olrando etc it is showing no flights available from Gatwick which would be true. So looks like this A330 VS43 in October is still going ahead.
#955964 by rubytuesday
18 May 2020, 01:01
gumshoe wrote:Given you can still book a flight on a 747 from LGW until October, I’d take everything with a big pinch of salt right now.

Continuing to sell flights they’ve already said won’t be operating is naughty.


well thats strange as when i do mock bookings there are NO direct flights showing in October to any gatwick destinations so dont know how you are managing to see direct flights.
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