V-Flyer

I wonder if you could offer your thoughts on the following situation.

Original flights MAN-MCO 8 March , MCO-MAN 3 April
When the FCO issued their advice that UK citizens should return to the UK we texted Virgin on
24 March and asked for a flight home asap, and were given flights MCO-JFK-LHR on 25 March.

Virgin’s texts then ended saying that we had to make our own way from LHR to MAN and make a claim with EU Care.

The cost of two BA flights LHR-MAN were £705 so instead we booked a Skoda Octavia and drove up at a cost of £191 for the car and £27 for diesel, so total £218.
We submitted this to Virgin EU Care on 27 March with full details.

Today they emailed with a rather long standard reply saying:-

++Thank you for writing to us regarding your out of pocket expenses, I’m truly sorry for the delay in our response. The impact of the Coronavirus pandemic has been unprecedented with many passengers being away from their homes. We regret any inconvenience caused to you and are very grateful for your patience and understanding during this time.

The EU regulation 261/2004 establishing common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of cancellation or long delay of flights requires us to offer affected passengers the following care package.


• Meals and refreshments in reasonable relation to the waiting time
• 2 short telephone calls, or telex, or fax, or e-mail messages.
• Hotel accommodation if the delay goes into the following day
• Transport to and from the hotel.

In line with the regulation we will reimburse the reasonable costs you have incurred relating to care package above, for the number of days you were delayed between your original scheduled departure up until the next available flight you were offered.

During May 2020, we conducted a passenger care evaluation for each city we fly to establish reasonable costs across our network. This evaluation researched the cost of mid-range accommodation, meals and transport costs.
This evaluation has allowed us to establish a maximum daily amount for each element of the EU regulations passenger care package and our assessment of reasonable costs is based on a comparison of the receipts you have provided against these amounts. The exchange rate used was set by the Bank of England.

The reasonable assessment of passenger claims is based upon the following principles:

Entitlement
These provisions are offered to Virgin Atlantic passengers booked on a Virgin Atlantic flight who were away from their usual place of residence and waiting to depart on the return leg of their flight.

Settlement will be made to the passenger(s) incurring the actual costs and providing formal receipts from suppliers and merchants for the items purchased. A lead passenger acting on behalf of a group of passengers incurring costs and providing receipts, is eligible to make one claim for everyone in that group.

Hotel accommodation
Is based on a minimum of two people sharing one room. (with the exception of passengers travelling alone on a single reservation)

Meals and refreshments
Breakfast (if it has not been included in hotel offering) followed by one snack and one main meal per person per day, plus approximately six regular soft drinks or beverages per person per day

Transport to and from the airport
This average establishes a daily maximum of £50 per claim.

Communication costs
Are calculated by averaging the charges applied by the four main UK mobile service providers, for two five-minute roaming calls. This average establishes a daily maximum of £12 per claim.

Having assessed your claim against these principles, the receipts provided, the number of people in your party and the number of days you were delayed we are pleased to reimburse you the sum of £163.07 in full and final settlement of all your claims in this matter.

We have included a detailed breakdown of your claim and our settlement below for your convenience.

We would once again like to thank you for your patience and understanding during this time. We’re sorry for any trouble that has been caused.

Claim Settlement Details

Details of all passengers this settlement related to

City of delay Scheduled day of departure Revised day of departure Number of days delayed
London Heathrow 3rd April 2020 N/A N/A
London Heathrow 3rd April 2020 N/A N/A


Transport from airport to hotel and back

Amount Claimed Itinerary Maximum journey each way Amount to be reimbursed
£163.07 LHR to MAN £110.00 £163.07

Total £163.07
Claims settlement summary
Total amount of reimbursement in 'home' currency £163.07 ++

We feel the above standard reply doesn’t really apply to our situation and we feel we did all we could to minimise our additional expenditure and feel aggrieved at having our claim reduced by 25% - what do you think?

I agree with you. If your ticket was for MCO-MAN, VS had a contractual obligation to get you to MAN at its own expense, regardless of the extraordinary circumstances that clearly applied at the time.

AFAIK there is nothing in EC261/2004 that sets a maximum limit on an airline’s duty of care responsibilities so any limit VS quotes is purely arbitrary and open to challenging.

Only you can decide whether the time and effort involved in pursuing them for another fifty-odd quid is worth it, particularly if it means going down the MCOL route.

But if you think it is, in the first instance I’d write back giving notice that you don’t accept their full & final settlement, reminding them of their contractual obligation to get you to your ticketed destination, pointing out that you took all reasonable steps to minimise the cost of getting from LHR to MAN and warning that you’ll take further action if they fail to settle your claim in full.

I agree with gumshoe, there's nothing I'm aware of that limits their liability. However, they got you home at short notice in tough circumstances. It might be because I'm tired today, but in all honesty, for the sake of less than £60 I'd probably just cut them some slack and move on.

Thanks for that gentlemen.

Its not the money really, its more the fact that they would try this on, and maybe do this routinely?
25% off each claim would be handy.

We have flown Virgin since 1999 and in UC for many years and in my claim letter of March I complimented the crew on working under such circumstances and (rather optimistically now it seems) said we would be back with them in October.

I havent chased them at all and actually I am surprised they are dealing with this now, given the far greater refunds they need to be processing.

I received a similar email in regard to our flight back to MAN which we brought forward to 18th March from the 30th. We were originally booked RSW -JFK-MAN and then the day before MAN was cancelled and we flew back via LHR. We also looked at BA and they quoted £300 each for the domestic flight so we also rented a car and drove. The cost was £159.02 and, as I didn't expect to be reimbursed, I didn't bother claiming for the fuel.

Yesterday's email stated reimbursement would be £159.02, i.e. the full amount and I have claimed this this morning and they advise that funds should be in our bank account within 10 days .

So thank you VS as we have now been refunded our expenses for this trip and the cost of our August flights which took about 109 days to be recredited. It may have taken an unusual length of time but, Hey, we are living in unusual times.

BA certainly try and do this (but pay up if you push back) but an internal policy can't overwrite the law (and EU261 is still UK law)

So write back to VS legal and basically say there is no limit on duty of care and of they don't pay up you'll take them to MCOL and let a judge decide if what they are doing is within the letter and spirit of the legislation.

I would chase them for the remaining balance. As others say, they had a duty to get you to MAN and you shouldn't be expected to cover the cost of this.

To prove this goes on elsewhere, 2 years ago my flight with easyJet to Liverpool was cancelled and my total delay was 24 hours. As part of EU261, I was entitled to reimbursement of food expenses and other costs racked up as a result such as ground transport (in my case, it was a bus fare to the airport the next day). This, of course, was in addition to the standard payout they had to make for the delay. They initially knocked the expense claim back claiming they weren't responsible for private costs incurred before/after a flight, so this triggered an e-mail back on my part pointing out these were genuine expenses that wouldn't have been incurred had the flight operated as normal, as well as pointing their direction towards Article 9 of EU261 stating it was on them to provide food & drink and transport between the airport and accommodation (or in my case, to reimburse me for the expense incurred). This challenge was successful and I got my expense money back. I also got my standard delay payout without question as they acknowledged the plane that day had gone tech, so under the law they had to pay me as per the legislation.

So, I'm with the others, go back to them and challenge their decision. I would also look up the relevant parts of the legislation and quote it in your response. They won't have much of a leg to stand on then.

I suspect airlines try to fob customers off with this sort of thing in the hope they can't be bothered mounting a challenge and being ignorant of the relevant legislation.

Thanks for the input everyone - I will let you know how they respond!

Just to finish this thread.
After a question from Virgin regarding the Car Hire, for which had already the answer, they came back yesterday with a full offer for the claim. (7 months)
I have to say that I was rather disappointed that they called this a 'Payment Invitation' and the convoluted process then involved to actually receive payment when they had my credit card details.
To accept their offer you have to click on a link - before it expires in 21 days (!)
You then have to create an account with password. (My password of 'Virginarenolongernumber1' wasnt accepted unfortunately)
Click a line to show your reference, click a small arrow (no indication of what to do, just try it! ) on the right of the line to accept.
Give your Bank details. (Click a search line for Country of Bank- with only one result! - UK)
Apparently I should receive the payment in 10 days, for which I am pleased - but from the start of the claim to the finish it all seemed designed to trap the folks who arent quite so persistent to obtain what is rightfully theirs, and I am surprised at Virgins tactics.