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#961093 by CommanderB
09 Mar 2023, 18:11
I was really looking forward to the 350 Upper Class Suite.

But after my first flight on it, I think I prefer the 787.

Don't get me wrong, it's been a monumental leap forward. And a huge number of airlines are now using this Super Diamond based product. But it was lacking in so many areas.

  • The loft sucks, bring back the bar.
  • Tray table is probably too tightly packed up against your stomach and has no ability to move forwards/backwards like the 787 table.
  • Seat feels quite tight and confined overall.
  • It can be hard to get out of the seat into the aisle if you're reclined. You kind of have to reset the seat to be able to swing your legs out.
  • Big lack of storage.
  • Easy to accidentally press the buttons that control the seat.

It's not all doom and gloom though, I think the IFE is amazing. The tail cam is a nice addition and the general feel of the product is great. It looks and feels nice.

Maybe I've been tainted by the hundreds of hours I've spent on the 787/333.

I'd be interested to know what others think.

Mumbles & Grumbles end.

:-D
#961094 by mitchja
09 Mar 2023, 19:09
I fully agree with you on this one.

The seat cushioning is too contoured and so is not completely flat when in bed mode either. The seat also sometimes takes a few attempts to get it in bed mode as well as it tends not to go all the way down properly.

I always try and grab row 1 window seats as as least those have the larger footwells and extra cushioning near your feet which gives you a wider space when in bed mode.

The only plus the A350 has is the outside tail and belly cameras. Why VS choose not to install those on the A339's is anyones guess unless there is a technical reason why they didn't?
#961095 by buns
09 Mar 2023, 19:29
I too agree

Mrs B and I were in the A350 Leisure Config early last year and found the window seats in Upper far less comfortable that the 333 or 787

So much so, that I make a point of avoiding in subsequent flights, even to the extent of using Delta on a return leg in December!

Buns
#961096 by CommanderB
09 Mar 2023, 20:03
mitchja wrote:
The only plus the A350 has is the outside tail and belly cameras. Why VS choose not to install those on the A339's is anyones guess unless there is a technical reason why they didn't?


Clearly, VS are taking guidance from BA on "How not to keep your fleet consistent"!

buns wrote:So much so, that I make a point of avoiding in subsequent flights, even to the extent of using Delta on a return leg in December!


That's a real shame. Pretty bad if a loyal VS customer is picking a partner airline because their flagship product is so disliked.
#961101 by flyingfox
10 Mar 2023, 00:10
And I’am going to be unpopular as I don’t like the UCS on the B787/A333 after experiencing the A350 ( and looking forward to trying the A339 later in the year). Completely agree about the loft and they need to bring back the bar concept. I really enjoy looking out of the window but having to crane my neck to watch the world go by is just uncomfortable, and the view on the legacy UCS is just looking at fellow passengers or the wall if your in row A.

I was disappointed to read that there are still issues with the A350 tray table as a fix was developed and was meant to be deployed to solve the problem throughout the fleet.

Virgin ground experience and crew are the best, getting a bit weary of the onboard catering and that needs changing more frequently, the Virgin position of serving no beef needs reviewing.

Also in a cryptic interview Shai made last year where he eluded to the future fleet and for those of us who don’t like the old UCS and hopes VS might retrofit well it might not be good news for the next few years;

Key Aero Article]


VIRGIN ATLANTIC TO DITCH DREAMLINERS AND GO ALL-AIRBUS?

“First of all, we've simplified our fleet dramatically. So, we're now down to A350s, A339s and 787s. Do I see a further iteration of that? Possibly one more, but that's not in the next two to three years.”

The one more iteration Weiss refers to is likely to relate to the company’s 17 787s. With the Airbus contingent in line to become all next-generation and benefitting from dual pilot type ratings and increased commonality between A330neo and A350 cockpits, this points towards the Dreamliner being the outlier.
#961102 by CommanderB
10 Mar 2023, 00:22
flyingfox wrote:And I’am going to be unpopular as I don’t like the UCS on the B787/A333 after experiencing the A350 ( and looking forward to trying the A339 later in the year). Completely agree about the loft and they need to bring back the bar concept. I really enjoy looking out of the window but having to crane my neck to watch the world go by is just uncomfortable, and the view on the legacy UCS is just looking at fellow passengers or the wall if your in row A.

I was disappointed to read that there are still issues with the A350 tray table as a fix was developed and was meant to be deployed to solve the problem throughout the fleet.

Virgin ground experience and crew are the best, getting a bit weary of the onboard catering and that needs changing more frequently, the Virgin position of serving no beef needs reviewing.

Also in a cryptic interview Shai made last year where he eluded to the future fleet and for those of us who don’t like the old UCS and hopes VS might retrofit well it might not be good news for the next few years;

Key Aero Article]


VIRGIN ATLANTIC TO DITCH DREAMLINERS AND GO ALL-AIRBUS?

“First of all, we've simplified our fleet dramatically. So, we're now down to A350s, A339s and 787s. Do I see a further iteration of that? Possibly one more, but that's not in the next two to three years.”

The one more iteration Weiss refers to is likely to relate to the company’s 17 787s. With the Airbus contingent in line to become all next-generation and benefitting from dual pilot type ratings and increased commonality between A330neo and A350 cockpits, this points towards the Dreamliner being the outlier.


A simplified fleet makes absolute sense.

I haven't flown the 339 yet so will reserve judgement on that.

If I have to continue to slum it on the 351 then I guess it's first world problems ;-)
#961104 by Claphambear
10 Mar 2023, 11:32
I agree with the OP

The A350 suite is too tight and I dont like my feet feeling constricted in bed mode
The table needs a re-think
The booth was never really going to be used (pure gimmick) and the loft needs a bar retrofitted to make it a social space - at the moment is an echo chamber. I miss the bar especially on my usual route ie LAX . Great place to hang out with crew and other pax alike
I am happier when I am not on an aircraft that is not a A350
#961342 by choosethedrew
18 Apr 2023, 21:58
We flew LHR - LAX - LHR and we had an AC change on the outbound to a 787. I was gutted it wasn’t UCS, but honestly as soon as I walked on board, I realised I was mistaken. The cabin felt way more open, airy and spacious. The seat, whilst tighter width wise, felt bigger overall and the bed was much flatter and more comfortable.

I just felt less packed in than on the UCS. It’s hard to pin down exactly what makes up this feeling, but it’s an important one in business class. I also took a flight on a Qantas 787 and they also managed to make the cabin feel less sardine like than UCS.
#961349 by Smid
19 Apr 2023, 13:58
Not flown VS recently, and last few times it didn't impress me, even post re-refit the 330s weren't great and I felt claustrophobic on the 787s as well. I guess I liked the 747s and 346 times too much, and every version I've got on since has been squeezed up and compressed a little more. I went from enjoying the cabin to suffering it.

A350 seems more of the same with the absolute insanity of removing the bar. The only thing they really had to dangle over the likes of BA and AA.
#961352 by splash1992
20 Apr 2023, 00:09
Fully agree.

I’ve done the following sectors in the last 9 months so I’ve managed compare all different seats in reasonably quick succession (at least more so than normal for me).

August: LHR-MCO-LHR A350 (Leisure)
September: LHR-AUS-LHR B787
November: LHR-ATL A350 (Mainline), TPA-LHR A330NEO
December: LHR-AUS-LHR B787
December/Jan: LHR-TPA-LHR A330NEO
April: LHR-BOS A330NEO BOS-LHR A330-300

Winner for day flights: A350
Winner for travelling with somebody: A350/330NEO
Winner for bed comfort: A330-300 closely followed by the 787 (there’s a slight difference to the bed side on the 330, it’s memory foam-ish or so I’ve always thought.)

The seats on the 330NEO and A350 are all very fancy to look at and feel private etc. but I just cannot sleep in them, I find them narrow and claustrophobic when compared to the old seats. Also, as others have said, the 350 and the NEO definitely are not quite flat in bed mode. It’s bizarre, a very slight slanted angle.

Also, on a day flight the other day I did notice how light and airy the old 330 felt compared to how tight the new cabins feel and quite enclosed with all the walls dividing each ‘suite’.

All first world problems of course, but my observations for what it’s worth :)
#961398 by CommanderB
27 Apr 2023, 15:04
inkiboo wrote:Agree to an extent.

Row 1 is much better than all the other rows. That extra space makes a massive difference.

I know some people didn’t like them, but I prefer the UC seat on the 330-300. Plus it has the bar too.


Agree with you. Row 1 did feel different to the other rows.

I take the 789/333 over the 35K where possible.
#961561 by dmc
15 May 2023, 00:42
Just wanted to add an observation on Row 1 of the A350 having just flown overnight from SFO on one, whilst it does indeed have more room for your feet (which is a big plus) there are some downsides as well:

- There is no overhead luggage storage for seat 1K directly above the seat, the first large bin is completely full of emergency equipment etc. When the cabin is full and people have lots of cabin bags, you may have to hunt around a bit for space, especially since the bedding is also stored in the overhead bins on the A350.

- You may be disturbed by bright light from the galley directly in front on an overnight when trying to sleep - there is a curtain but the crew often forget to close it.

- Because the sliding “doors” don’t fully close, it doesn’t feel very private at the front when sleeping, as everyone from the seats behind will be passing you as they go in/out of the loo directly in front of the seat.

One other observation regarding the tailcam - in the window seats A and K it seems you are allowed to have the screen out during takeoff and landing (I asked) if you want to watch the camera. However I saw crew asking people in the middle seats to close theirs for landing due to the orientation, as the screens in those seats would partially cause an obstruction in an emergency.
#961794 by CommanderB
19 Jun 2023, 16:51
Well, I am going to stand by my original statements.

Just flew the 35K again, in both leisure and non-leisure configs.

The seat is already feeling dated. Screen mechanisms broken - a particular problem for row 1. I've sat in 1A and 1K, both times on different aircraft, the screens either wouldn't come out of their position or wouldn't go back in. Both times, compensated by VS with some points.

The glossy finish on the seat surround is already battered and doesn't look very "flagship". The seat is uncomfortable to sleep in compared to the 787.

You also can't get away with any sort of recline during takeoff/landing as the seat has an indicator light in the aisle that shows the crew whether it's ready for takeoff/landing. ( You're supposed to be fully upright on the 787 too, but there's no way of them telling other than visually.)
#961801 by Kraken
20 Jun 2023, 00:38
CommanderB wrote:You also can't get away with any sort of recline during takeoff/landing as the seat has an indicator light in the aisle that shows the crew whether it's ready for takeoff/landing. ( You're supposed to be fully upright on the 787 too, but there's no way of them telling other than visually.)


Well the indicator light on my seat on the outbound (A350-1000) flight was either faulty, or just ignored by the crew prior to takeoff. I did not touch the recline controls for the entire flight - took off with the seat in the position I found it in. Prior to landing in Orlando the crew made me put it fully upright and it was not overly comfortable compared to the slight recline I had clearly been enjoying for 99% of the flight.
#961802 by CommanderB
20 Jun 2023, 11:17
Kraken wrote:
CommanderB wrote:You also can't get away with any sort of recline during takeoff/landing as the seat has an indicator light in the aisle that shows the crew whether it's ready for takeoff/landing. ( You're supposed to be fully upright on the 787 too, but there's no way of them telling other than visually.)


Well the indicator light on my seat on the outbound (A350-1000) flight was either faulty, or just ignored by the crew prior to takeoff. I did not touch the recline controls for the entire flight - took off with the seat in the position I found it in. Prior to landing in Orlando the crew made me put it fully upright and it was not overly comfortable compared to the slight recline I had clearly been enjoying for 99% of the flight.


I didn't notice them checking prior to departure - they may have been a bit rushed due to our late departure. But you're right, being fully upright in that seat isn't the most comfortable.
#961804 by mitchja
20 Jun 2023, 14:23
The A339 Upper Class seat has the same seat position indicator LED for the crew on it as well.

I thought VS always made the point that the older A333/B789 Upper Class seat could be reclined or in any position for take off & landing (obviously not in bed mode though) with the seat belt having it's own airbag?
#961806 by CommanderB
20 Jun 2023, 14:45
mitchja wrote:
I thought VS always made the point that the older A333/B789 Upper Class seat could be reclined or in any position for take off & landing (obviously not in bed mode though) with the seat belt having it's own airbag?


Interesting, I didn't know that. I've been asked multiple times to bring the seat upright on the 789.

What are your thoughts on the 339 seat vs 35K, James?
#961809 by mitchja
20 Jun 2023, 15:46
The A339 seat itself is more or less the same as the A350 seat. The controls are slightly more intuitive on the A339. There are also 2 control panels, 1 lower down so you can reach that when in bed mode.

The A339 seat head rest is adjustable though (it's tilts forwards or backwards). The headrest bit is also larger as well as it's the full width one the seat where as the A350 seat curves at the headrest area. Having the wider more square shaped headrest gives you more sense of space around your head when in bed mode as well.

The A339 J seat wins every time.

The only minor gripe I have with the A339 seat is it's pretty easy to drop / loose things out of your pockets and anything ends of failing under the seat and out of site. I had a minor panic on my last A339 flight as I misplaced my passport. I distinctly remember it being in my trouser pocket when I boarded but then later I the flight I couldn't find it. It was under the seat out of site. I only found it by blindly feeling around under the seat. Found an amenity pack under there as well.
#961810 by CommanderB
20 Jun 2023, 16:11
mitchja wrote:The A339 seat itself is more or less the same as the A350 seat. The controls are slightly more intuitive on the A339. There are also 2 control panels, 1 lower down so you can reach that when in bed mode.

The A339 seat head rest is adjustable though (it's tilts forwards or backwards). The headrest bit is also larger as well as it's the full width one the seat where as the A350 seat curves at the headrest area. Having the wider more square shaped headrest gives you more sense of space around your head when in bed mode as well.

The A339 J seat wins every time.

The only minor gripe I have with the A339 seat is it's pretty easy to drop / loose things out of your pockets and anything ends of failing under the seat and out of site. I had a minor panic on my last A339 flight as I misplaced my passport. I distinctly remember it being in my trouser pocket when I boarded but then later I the flight I couldn't find it. It was under the seat out of site. I only found it by blindly feeling around under the seat. Found an amenity pack under there as well.


Good to know, thanks.

I've dropped stuff down the side of the 35K seats too!
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