V-Flyer

Spotted this on X this morning. I mentioned on here a few months ago that VS were exploring the possibility of an all Airbus fleet. Let's see what happens over the next week.

https://www.headforpoints.com/2024/06/1 ... neo-order/

Very interesting.

I suspect given that they want to increase flights at MAN, LGW and possible LHR that they will:

Have all airbus fleet:
- Let B787 go once lease is finished.

- Either Retire A330 as planned or refit with Neo specs
-
- Order 6-12 more Neo aircraft’s
- Order 5-10 A350 ( half 44J half J leisure config)

Airbus orders reported in May included 20 x A330 neos from an undisclosed customer

This surely has to be Virgin.
Would make sense as current order is to replace all A330.
New order of 20 would replace the 17xB787. Plus 3 extra.

However; current order is being delayed (all were supposed to be delivered by end 2026, now it’s 2028).

So new order would go from 2029-20234 unless they agree with Airbus for faster deliveries.

Might have been better to order 10-12 more Neo whilst refit either A330 or 787.

Because it’s still going to be luck of the draw and lottery with aircraft changes etc. but can understand if they want an all airbus fleet.

Moving to an all-Airbus fleet would be the single best thing VS can do from an operational perspective (bar any cabin config differences). It’s funny how the A330 entered the fleet due to the 787s being 3 years late combined with Airbus closing down the A340 production line and, if this is true, the successor to the A330 now looking set to replace the aircraft that brought them into the fleet in the first place.

For an airline the size of VS, it makes no sense to operate three aircraft types (or four even as it stands at the moment). With the 787s needing a cabin refit at some point, Airbus no doubt keen to sell more A330neo’s given its small order book to date compared to the 787, the 787 engines being troublesome for VS and VS already heavily invested in Airbus, this is a golden opportunity to standardise and enjoy a high level of economies of scale.

I also think an A330neo/A350 fleet would be a good mix. The A330neo would be the backbone of the fleet capable of handling most routes, with the A350 for the busier routes and anywhere that might be a struggle for A330neo (itself more capable than the A330-200/300).

All that said, it would end (for now perhaps) an association with Boeing going back to day one of VS.

There are plenty of posts on a.net about this being a previously announcement MOI from a Vietnamese airline for x20 A330 NEO from January. As well as comments about where is VS getting the money for a 20 strong plane order when it is still cash strapped and not turning a profit ... will be interesting to see if it happens but not odds on at the moment.

True they haven’t had profit since 2017/2018, but still managed to obtain A350/Neo…

I think they are wanting to have Airbus fleet.
Having quite a few problems (engine) with current B787.

And then also; why charter the Virgin Atlantic Neo plane to the Airshow?
Yes they have the retreat suite; but then there is Condor, Delta, to name but a few who also currently operate Neo. ..

OliverD241 wrote:And then also; why charter the Virgin Atlantic Neo plane to the Airshow?
Yes they have the retreat suite; but then there is Condor, Delta, to name but a few who also currently operate Neo. ..

Could that be something more to do with the VS 40th birthday celebrations perhaps? Remember the 744 flypast VS did with the Red Arrows for their 25th birthday which was also at Farnborough.

This could just be something similar.

slinky09 wrote:There are plenty of posts on a.net about this being a previously announcement MOI from a Vietnamese airline for x20 A330 NEO from January. As well as comments about where is VS getting the money for a 20 strong plane order when it is still cash strapped and not turning a profit ... will be interesting to see if it happens but not odds on at the moment.

Very true re. VS financial situation and questions would be asked around that.

Mind you, I’m no aviation financial expert, but if many 787s are leased and any new order is the same perhaps the financial outlay might not be as extravagant, particularly if money is going to have to be spent on refurbishing the 787s at some point? Remember the stalling years ago over refurbishing the LGW-based 747s? I’m also sure manufacturers will throw in sweeteners such as covering training costs as there will no doubt be money involved in training the Boeing pilots onto A330/A350s (not sure about cabin crew).

Like I said, it’s a good opportunity to bring about long-term operational simplicity which an airline of VS’ size needs, but whether it can be justified is another question.

VS own a few of their 789s and lease the remainder. I suspect they'd do similar with 339s - as they do with 35ks. It's a mixed model. However if they were to lease them all under a very competitive deal - it would be a shift on their balance sheet.

Debt levels would be reduced by 2028 and fresh deliveries. Their next strategy will likely look for further revenue growth. Funding won't be an issue for them.

My bet is on the 787s being retained and them getting a refit with the 339 suite.

I hope I’m right because I love spending time on that aircraft.

From memory VS had 4 options from the original A339 order that they still have not used. So it could be a top up order for future growth.

Small, speculative update. Described as a “top up” order.

https://www.xm.com/research/markets/all ... y-53885102

I see G-VSRB did a short flight to Farnborough yesterday as VS840P, so make of that what you will.

Order confirmed 7 new A330 NEO’s with a total of 19 by the end of 2028

Link
https://fly.airbus.com/3LAEaQN

Will be interesting to see what new routes VS are eyeing up for later in the decade assuming nothing else besides the A330-300s leave seeing as this will grow the fleet and mindful of recent comments from Shai Weiss about growth needing to be elsewhere given they can’t grow anymore at LHR.

It also confirms to me that the 787s are here to stay for the foreseeable, especially with no new A350 orders either.

Also, is it me or was the original order for 14 aircraft? What happened to reduce it to 12 seeing as the article talks about bringing the number of A330neos up to 19?

Will be interesting to see delivery dates and if they are kept on schedule and when the original 300's are retired totally. 19 to replace 10 has got to be an increase in seats even considering the 747's high density.

David

I think the original confirmed order was 12 with a top up option to 16.

https://corporate.virginatlantic.com/co ... 330neo.pdf

The corporate document says 16. So technically only ordering 3 more

Joshl257 wrote:Order confirmed 7 new A330 NEO’s with a total of 19 by the end of 2028

Link
https://fly.airbus.com/3LAEaQN

Can anybody explain how we get up to 19?
There's 5 currently in service, 4 on order and now another 7 on order?

The A330-300s started delivery 2011 (and were my introduction to the airline) so by 2028 I can see them getting replaced once they hit 15 years old.

The fleet plan for 2028 is as follows as per the Airbus VS press conference.
12 A350-1000s
19 A330neos
14 B787-9s

So we have lost 2 A350’s orders which I think VS have quietly converted to the NEO and 3 B787’s most likely due to the fact that most 787’s are leased.

Interesting they’re offloading a number of 787s. As most are leased, then either they’re selling the owned ones (which can’t be many given they sold and leased back a few during COVID) or they’re letting the leases on a number lapse.

An A350 to A330 conversion wouldn’t surprise me. They have been flexing the orders and I’m sure Airbus would be more than happy to accommodate that if it meant a sale and keeping a long-time customer happy.

Fuzzy14 wrote:

Joshl257 wrote:Order confirmed 7 new A330 NEO’s with a total of 19 by the end of 2028

Link
https://fly.airbus.com/3LAEaQN

Can anybody explain how we get up to 19?
There's 5 currently in service, 4 on order and now another 7 on order?

The A330-300s started delivery 2011 (and were my introduction to the airline) so by 2028 I can see them getting replaced once they hit 15 years old.

Well when they announced new Neo order was for definitive 12 with top up option of 4. So they’ve decided to top this up to 19 (so 7 more).
5 in service, 3 more to be delivered this year and 4 next year.

You are confusing A330-900NEO with A330-300. a330/300 are the old config which went into service in 2011 and are being slowly phased out and retired.

The A390 Neo was introduced 2022.

Interested to know if they intend to offload all 787’s in the long term or keep some and retrofit them

ARTibbs94 wrote:Interested to know if they intend to offload all 787’s in the long term or keep some and retrofit them

According to this article they have extended lease on 787 but will retire some from 2028 along with A330 starting September.

They plan to have all 19 neos by first quarter of 2028.
https://www.ch-aviation.com/news/142831 ... -a330-900s

There's a bit more detail in VS's own press release here

There's a table showing A/C fleet today vs. expected fleet in Q1 2028. Overall net increase of just 1 A/C.