V-Flyer

Does anyone know about the flight we were on ,the VS076 from mco to Man yesterday landing at 0705 this morning.. We hit turbulance and it was a very scary experience. Have flown a few times now and have never known it to be that bad. Women were crying and the little children were very frightened especially when we dropped very quickly and the aircraft shook ,this was not just a few minutes it went on for ages, I would say almost an hour.
Was very disappointed with the cabin crew in their lack of reassurance which should have been addressed as passengers were clearly upset.
Sian

Sorry but I don't know unfortunately. Are you ok now? It must have been very scary - especially as the aircraft shook and dropped! I think I've heard about that - CAT or something which cannot be picked up on a radar, the cabin crew should have reassured you - did they come on the PA system or anything or did they remain silent during the course of it?

Regards - hope your next flights are smooth!

Yes I'm fine thanks, luckily my children slept through it all!!!!!!
We did have an announcement but afterwards a few kind words from the cabin crew would have made a huge difference. The landing was smoother than the turbulance and well worth the applause of some very relieved passengers.
Sian

What was the approximate location of the turbulence? Over the Atlantic I'm assuming? I know that there is an area just off Canada over the Atlantic where a lot of aircraft experience a little bit of turbulence.

It must have been very scary for you but is one of those things that you cant always predict. I have been on flights before (remembering a recent internal flight in the US) where the captain has warned us that the tuberlance will be very bad and yet nothing has happened.

If it was just a random unpredicatble act, which it sounds like it was, whilst scary the crew wont have wanted to make too much of it especaially at night- using the pa system would have woken everyone up and scared those that slept through it! I am surprised that the crew didnt speak to those pax that were scared in person though. But it cant have been that bad as the crew would have been asked to be seated as well as pax. I'm guessing the pax were asked to be seated and the cabin was checked.

Turbulence is very common and just one of those things that comes with flying.Sadly we cant always predict it and it is basically caused by air particles being split by the wing and then not rejoining once they have gone past the wing. Some weather conditions/areas are more prone than others. SFO just after take off over the Sieria Nevada on a hot day is bad and pretty much the whole of New Zealand in a northwest wind is exceptionally bad.I do recall one very hairy flight with VS from JFK where even the crew were in their seats for around an hour and a half! It is scary part of flying and im sure the crew didnt want to go around scare mongering hence the lack of announcements. Glad you came out ok and hope it hasnt dented your confidence too much.

I have flown that route before, and is really bumpy; I remember in July 2001 on a VS A343 to LAX, you hit turbelence for 30 mins and it felt like the plane was dipping.
But it was quite fun actually.

Sorry to hear about you flight experience.

I was on vs46 in sept after a week of glorious sunshine one of the hurricanes had hit the north east and the take off was hairy to say the least! Really fighting to get in the air - or so it felt but the best bit was the crew announcing that "the seat belt light would be on for a bit longer than normal in case of turbulance" - then the plane dropped very heavily - "a bit like that!" understatement of the year! Nothing like a silent cabin combined with the sound of the engines getting you into the air at night to get the heart racing!

We had a fairly horrendous flight back from NY the once. The drinks run had just started and the Seat Belt sign went on. Then we hit a load of fairly bad turbulence. Then about five or ten mins later the cabin crew were also confined to seats and it seemed to get a whole lot worse. Must have lasted for about half an hour or so. About three or four rows infront of us someone was rather ill in the aisle which didn't help.

Then as soon as we got through it normal service resumed - straight into the meal. Didn't really fancy it then, could have done waiting half an hour or so for my stomach and heart to calm down a little. But that couldn't have been helped.

All the cabin crew we spoke to during the flight or when we landed while having a chat said that they had never experienced it as bad as that. As scary and horrible as bad turbulence can be, I always have one thought that goes through my head, the plane is designed to cope with this and if the Captain thought there was any level of danger beyond being shaken around a bit then he would take appropriate action. But that doesn't make it any less horrible an experience.

Foz )

Turbulence is unavoidable sometimes, and yes, I've heard that some areas around Canada are quite bad sometimes, also sometimes by the tropics (I think)

This is slightly OT (sorry), but have you ever noticed that after take-off, the engines noise decrease and the plane feels that it is descending but it is on climb! - i've always wondered what that is!!

Hi, sorry to hear about your experience, sounds very scary. for the technical side of things, CAT or Clear Air Turbulance (pretty much a bubble of absolutly nothing in the sky, so no lift under the wings) would have not been the cause of the sudden drop by your aircraft, when an airliner flies into CAT you can generally expect to lose thousands of feet in altitude. There have been many accidents in the past, i believe there was a Delta aircraft quite a few years back hit CAT as it was on approach and literally made the aircraft just fall out of the sky and hit the ground becasue it was so low. But this is not a very common issue, it does happen yes and there is technology that can see it but it is too expensive to put into airliners. Aircraft are still the safest form of travel so no need to worry there.

Have a nice day.
A345

quote:pretty much a bubble of absolutly nothing in the sky, so no lift under the wings

I just love how the world and the universe work sometimes! Makes my head hurt if I start to think about it too much.

Thanks for the explanation A345 - fortunately this isn't something I've experienced.

Foz )

quote:Originally posted by A345
There have been many accidents in the past, i believe there was a Delta aircraft quite a few years back hit CAT as it was on approach and literally made the aircraft just fall out of the sky and hit the ground becasue it was so low.

The Delta incident wasn't CAT, it was due to a "micro-burst", a very sudden and violent pressure change (from low to high pressure), caused by a rapidly falling mass of cold air, caused by a storm cell in the vicinity.

http://www.math.unl.edu/~jfisher/NSF_96/windshear.html

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/tg/wmcrbrst/wmcrbrst.htm

This is why many civilian airliners now have microburst detection technology built into their weather radars.

CAT is, as you suggest, pockets of "nothing" - well not quite "nothing", but lower pressure air - usually encountered at high altitudes, above most usual weather systems.

As it's name implies, CAT (Clear Air Turbulence) occurs during conditions of no other significant weather, and is therefore difficult to detect on the weather radar (i.e. turbulence is usually inside, or very close to clouds, especially around storm cells).

The sudden lower air pressure causes the airflow to detach from the wings, and the aircraft to bounce around.

Most turbulence encounters usually cause vertical movement in tens to hundreds of feet, though if you can't see an altimeter in front of you, it can feel like more. (Put the skymap on next time you are in turbulence, to see an altimeter.)

Severe turbulence can make a plane fall thousands of feet, but if that happens you will definitely know about it. Anything which is not firmly tied down will fly around the cabin. Books, glasses, cups, people, etc. It's not unknown for overhead bins to come open in these situations and their contents to fall out.

If the cabin crew are still up and around in the aisles, then it's not heavy turbulence, it's only moderate at worse.

In many cases, the flight crew will know where forecast areas of turbulence will be, through their pre-flight weather briefings. Weather Centres produce many weather charts and briefings to help pilots. Routes will be planned to avoid the worst of the turbulence.

Even then, I'm sympathetic to your situation, as a member of my family is a very nervous flyer, and would be upset by extended periods of turbulence.

Regards,
Mike

quote:Originally posted by vsdan
This is slightly OT (sorry), but have you ever noticed that after take-off, the engines noise decrease and the plane feels that it is descending but it is on climb! - i've always wondered what that is!!

Not sure on this one, but I think I read somewhere that it's because the amount of power required at take off isn't required during the climb (i.e. once lift is established), so the engine power gets notched back to prevent excessive strain on them. Also, it could be something to do with noise abatement restrictions [?]

Cheers

Michael

The decrease in engine power is mainly due to noise restrictions over densely populated areas, like citys.

Bear in mind also that the engines arent at there most economical until they reach approx 35,000ft. This is due to the density of the air, pressure of the air and temperature of the air.

Enough science for today!!

All your replies have been very educational, and something my son has now done an article for school on monday. The cabin crew themselves had to return to their seats too.This was about 4 hours into the flight.
Sian

You must also remember that it all depends on the pilot! I have been on some flights where the pilot has had the seat belt sign on for the whole flight almost- after a while all the pax began to ignore it as it was as smooth as. (Air China LHR-PEK 10 hours!!!)

Other pilots dont do anything- in NZ where it is very common I would say its the worst air turbulence i have ever experienced and the flight was conducted as normal because the pax and crew are 'use' to it. For those of you who love this kind of thing- air turbulence over the atlantic is nothing compared to the Cook Strait and new zealand on a northwest day.

I do agree with whoever said that you must always be aware that the pilot will do something if it is bad. I remember a flight from LGW-BCN and we hit some awful turbulence over the Pyrenes and the captain acted immediatly by climbing out of it.

9 times out of 10 the crew are aware of what is ahead, whilst it is scary to hear the beast creak she is designed to with stand it and all will be fine---as someone once said to me jsut think of it like a bumpy road in a car or when the tracks on a train make a noise- you dont get frightened or worried then!

Sometimes other aircraft in front tell other planes following about bad turbulence ahead.

The Captain will then decide to switch on the seat belt sign or not.

Ive done many a flights where we have been asked to sit down......... and then nothing!!!

Other times you will be in the aisle and the plane will drop.

PA's on night flights are kept to a minimum because people getting annoyed when there trying to sleep, or watch a movie.

If the crew were strapped in it would be difficult for them to go round reassuring people.

Interestlingly our MAN based crew have the best feedback from the inflight questionaires. I think its because they all know each other very well so its like flying with your friends.

The IFE was also switched off.Is it usual for staff who at the time had a cardigans on to remove them and put on their jackets as they do for landing?
One chap a couple of rows behind was shouting that he had seen another aircraft a little too close for comfort. He had been a bit loud from the point of boarding so I was unsure on his reliabilty, or more for a claim for no blame in any form!!(He made his feelings known)
As for reassurance its understandable when they are unable too, but afterwards a small gesture would have made a big difference for those that were clearly upset.
We were lucky that it hadn't happened on the meal service.

Just done the same flight from MCO to MAN on Friday, just a few days after you. It was the smoothest flight across the Atlantic I have had out of the 26 experiences.

I always expect turbulence on this flight for me it has always happened ( except Friday) Sometimes it has been worse than others.
One of the tricks I learned from my Fearful flying friends is to place a glass of water on your table. The water rarely leaves the glass unless turbulence is severe ( severe turb is very rare as pilots avoid it). Try placing a glass of water in your car and see how quickly it leaves the glass!!!

You get more bumps in your car than you do in the sky.

Try to remember that turbulence is only a comfort Issue, it is no problem for the plane, they are built to take any amount of turbulence. Some small planes in fact seek out hurricanes!

I flew on VS028, arriving at Gatwick at 7.20am on last thursday morning (18th November).
We experienced some hefty turbulance starting about 200 miles off the west coast of Ireland, and this continued pretty much all the way to the start of the descent into Gatwick.
I checked weather.co.uk after I got home, and it turns out that there was quite a hefty jetstream blowing over the UK and Ireland at the time. I guess this might have had something to do with the turbulance.
Hope this helps

Hi

I've travelled back and forth between MAN and MCO and always seem to get turbulence on the flight back never on the outbound flight. This year we travelled back a couple of days after Hurricane Frances and we bounced through the air for quite some time. [xx(]

I am normally ok with turbulance, (I try to focus on whatever book I am reading) but it terrifies my husband. This time we were hit just after the meals were served and it was fairly upsetting for a lot of people as you can imagine most peoples meal trays went everwhere.

Yes, I do think FA could reassure passengers but I also wonder if you could speak calmly into an intercom whilst being hit by turbulance, if it was me I would probably make people worry more.

I would imagine one of the reasons for no announcements is because it is a regular part of flying. Rather like a bumpy road in a car is a regular part of car driving- you dont get bus drivers saying sorry for a bumpy road do you! Also drawing more attention to it may freak people out even further! Crew warn pax of tuberlance prior to take off thru the safety demo so everyone should be relativly aware of it shouldnt they!