V-Flyer

Everyone's worst fears are confirmed, with the Open Skies Agreement giving freedom for any airline to fly from anywhere Ryan air will start an airline in 2010 !

It will feature the normal Ryan air Y product [:$] and also a premium cabin that will rival VS [:0]

link

They are looking to order 50 aircraft, either 787 or A350 and fly from their 28 cites in Europe.

Following the Ryan Air model they will fly into secondary US airports such as Islip NY !

At long last Southwest has found it's Euro partner !

Oh no, the world is officially coming to an end. I can't believe Ryanair will be able to use its existing Y product. It's difficult enough for tall people like me to fit comfortably in normal Y seats on BA and VS. I doubt the premium product will be up to par with VS though. If Ryanair expect to take business away they'll have to make the price cheaper and I don't think they'll be interested enough to spend more money on high class seats.

People can survive no frills for a few hours but not trans-atlantic.[:0]
Well, not more than once;)

VS.

I am not surprised.

I guess it depends how Ryanair market the whole thing really.

LCC's on long haul routes are working at the moment- one only has to look to OAsis Hong Kong and the success of Zoom to see this. Globespan provide an example of how not to do this. And to be honest Charters have done it for years really- especially when you consider how much you pay for your holiday. And Air Asia X are starting next year I believe.


Ryanair will come up trumps if they adopt a Zoom approach to it (as by all accounts they are good). But something just tells me they wont- as we all know Ryanair make B6 and U2 look like luxury and I cant see them changing it for LH ops. But we may be presently surprised.....I will reserve judgement until I see it launched. [8D]

Ryanair going trans-atlantic?

In the words of John McEnroe: "YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!"

Originally posted by willd
I am not surprised.

I guess it depends how Ryanair market the whole thing really.

LCC's on long haul routes are working at the moment- one only has to look to OAsis Hong Kong and the success of Zoom to see this. Globespan provide an example of how not to do this. And to be honest Charters have done it for years really- especially when you consider how much you pay for your holiday. And Air Asia X are starting next year I believe.


Ryanair will come up trumps if they adopt a Zoom approach to it (as by all accounts they are good). But something just tells me they wont- as we all know Ryanair make B6 and U2 look like luxury and I cant see them changing it for LH ops. But we may be presently surprised.....I will reserve judgement until I see it launched. [8D]

The difference is, Ryanair is more than just an LCC. The ones you mentioned actually have more comfortable seats and are made for transatlantic.

Although, upon reading the article again I did notice that O'Leary did not say the same Y seats would be used. He did say the airline would be entirely independent of Ryanair, so perhaps it would slightly improve the service.

I must admit I do not like the whole LCC long haul concept at all. I fear that these type of airlines are going to start popping up more frequently and can only be to the detriment of BA/VS etc.

I am not knocking the fact that it should, in theory, bring flight prices down, but ultimately is this a good thing? Many V-flyers moan about the cost cutting being done, but if VS have to sell tickets cheaper to compete with LCC long haul airlines, then the only result is surely going to be even more cost cutting[n].

Neil

No window-shade, non-reclining seatback, no headrest cover - surely this cannot be inflicted on pax for seven hours[:?]

VS.

Even worse, imagine seeing all that orange for 8 hours [:0]

I can see the choice of flights to the East coast increasing hugely in the next few years but the West coast and even as far as Chicago being ignored. As for Miami/Orlando, you'll be able to hop from plane to plane at 36'000'!!

The question is, "Is there enough demand to justify it?" After all, no airline is going to keep routes open if there are not enough passengers to make a profit.

Originally posted by VS045
People can survive no frills for a few hours but not trans-atlantic.[:0]
Well, not more than once;)

VS.

Well it seemed to work for Laker's Sky Train ... I remember my late aunty telling stories of cheap flights, and delighting in taking her own food on baord !

That was the 70's and 80's when air travel, especially trans-atlantic, was the reserve of the rich or big companies and was something glamorous.

Now flying is just like getting on a bus and customer expectation is much higher.

I've used Ryan Air a number of times when travelling to Europe with no problems and whilst I agree that I am not particulary keen on sitting in a squashed economy seat for 8 hours across the Atlantic if they and Easyjet and others can lower the price of Trans-atlantic travel then that can surely only be a good thing for passengers generally!!

These boys have announced that they will be flying to JFK from LGW and flights start at £129 - full service using the Esayjet style booking process - the nearer to flight time you get the more expensive the seat.

I dont for a mintue believe that Ryanair short haul will be carbon copied to the LH model.

Jetstar are a good example- there LH ops are upgraded compared to the SH model. Look at Air Asia- whilst they have a very budget operation in Asia it looks as if their LH airline will be a bit more upmarket- very much like Zoom hence they have called it Air Asia X.

I personally dont think that LCC on LH routes will have too much of an effect on BA/VS. Zoom have added to Canadian capacity rahter than cause BA/AC to cut capacity.

LCC LH will give the opportunity of LH travel to a whole new socio-economic group that perhaps currently cannot afford LH travel.

50 a/c seems a bit optomistic to me[:?]

VS.

30 787 UFO just showed up on the Boeing website...makes me wonder, to big to be a VS order.

Originally posted by Attitude23
I must admit I do not like the whole LCC long haul concept at all. I fear that these type of airlines are going to start popping up more frequently and can only be to the detriment of BA/VS etc.

I am not knocking the fact that it should, in theory, bring flight prices down, but ultimately is this a good thing? Many V-flyers moan about the cost cutting being done, but if VS have to sell tickets cheaper to compete with LCC long haul airlines, then the only result is surely going to be even more cost cutting[n].

Neil

I certainly agree with Neil in one regard, if VS decides to compete what effect will that have on the degradation of service as the bean counters grapple for more and more cost savings to enable the act of competing?

I should think there is some room for LCCs long haul, but for me a quality airline will prevail whereas for short haul it's just about bearable.

Good point, why would VS try and compete, they fly into main airports, they have interline agreements....and of course they have the LHR club house.

From my perspective I'm looking at Aer Lingus and its short haul flights. In the past we enjoyed hot meals, complimentary drinks and at the very least tea/coffee and biscuits. Slowly but surely these have been eroded and now, following the LCC model we now have Buy on Board, baggage charges and now recently booking charges for advanced seat selection. These are all fine on a flight of 1-2 hours but my point is that if an airline which once considered itself a legacy airline as a state sponsored one could introduce these charges, then how easy is it for the bean counters to follow suit in the long haul sector?

Originally posted by Scrooge
Good point, why would VS try and compete, they fly into main airports, they have interline agreements....and of course they have the LHR club house.

The problem is they might have to try and compete. It has been reported on here on numerous occasions how light the loads have been, especially on East Coast flights and with the suspected increase in LH LCC then surely it is going to be an even bigger problem.

My parents are flying to HKG in October, I tried so hard to persuade them to fly PE on VS (price abt £1350 each), but they have just booked Business Class on Oasis (price abt £700 each). Now I know Oasis BC is nothing compared to UC, but it looks more than adequate as a PE rival and with over a £600per pax saving I can see why they have gone with them.

My fear is that if and when LCC start serving NYC/BOS/DXB etc the same thing will happen, your occasional traveller will be more than happy to make a potential huge saving on the flights (especially for 6 or so hours, christ its only a couple more then flying to Tenerife/Egypt area) to have the cash in their back pocket for their hotel or spending money.

I sincerely hope it doesn't happen like this, but as HL has said, we have all seen how the LCC Short Haul market has taken off and affected the service offered by the "old school" airlines, so why can't it work Long Haul.

Neil

I guess that's what competition is all about - then as customers we have to weigh up all the other criteria affecting our perception of "value for money" - service, availability, time, location, miles benefits,transfers cancellations and delays etc.

Maybe if people are flying LCCs LH they will realise that it is actually better value to go with a "full-service" carrier than the LCC after you factor in tax, meal charges, baggage charges, etc etc and that, knowing Ryanair, one will most likely end up in Vermont and have to get transport to Manhattan, say.

VS.

VS wont try to compete- why would they- they after all are trying to capture different parts of the market.

AC and BA didnt try to compete with Zoom when they started. VS/BA/CX dont compete with Oasis.

They all complement each other.

Originally posted by willd
VS wont try to compete- why would they- they after all are trying to capture different parts of the market.

AC and BA didnt try to compete with Zoom when they started. VS/BA/CX dont compete with Oasis.

They all complement each other.

VS will/are losing business to Oasis though, and no doubt will do so to any other LH LCC. Yes there will be plenty of people, myself included who would rather pay more and fly VS but there will also be plenty who will use LH LCC.

Originally posted by Attitude23

VS will/are losing business to Oasis though, and no doubt will do so to any other LH LCC. Yes there will be plenty of people, myself included who would rather pay more and fly VS but there will also be plenty who will use LH LCC.

And really the start of an LH LCC on a route is no different to a new legacy carrier on a route.

I would imagine that VS were more worried when NZ start LHR-HKG and DL started LGW-JFK. After all these carriers are in DIRECT competition with VS- esp NZ.

Whilst there will be some over lap between a legacy and a LH LCC, they are not in direct competition. VS are after premium pax on the whole sure Y pax offer a service, but as I have been told a number of times on here, Y pax dont make VS any real money. They are after different parts of the market. So whilst VS maybe a bit worried- I feel they are more concerned with the likes of LH/AF coming in on the LHR market than FR starting Durham Tees Valley to Stewart International say.