V-Flyer

T5 has had its first 'real' day today and the only people that are surprised that there have been teething troubles (unsurprisingly) appear to be the media![n]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7314816.stm

The new terminals at HKG, Bangkok etc etc have suffered much worse issues than this i'm sure.

Originally posted by clarkeysntfc
The new terminals at HKG, Bangkok etc etc have suffered much worse issues than this i'm sure.

I'd send your comment into the balanced BBC - I'm sure it'd be given a prime position on the webpage. [:D]

And then a few minutes later ... all check-in at T5 is suspended [:0]

link

EDIT: Now updated, all luggage check-in is suspended. PAX without luggage can still check-in.

Hardly unexpected but still a blow. Certainly takes the shine off.

Originally posted by clarkeysntfc

The new terminals at HKG, Bangkok etc etc have suffered much worse issues than this i'm sure.

Exactly. The new Bangkok Airport was opened for a period of three months and then had to be closed down due to teething problems before being reopened again, it kind of puts todays teething problems into context doesn't it. I do wish that the media would start to report aviation news without bias.

A very good friend of mine is currently at work for BA in T5 (she works very much on the front line but you will only cross her if something goes missing). She has been looking forward to opening day for weeks but was very honest that there would be problems and the trials had shown the problems.

I would imagine that the report I will receive on T5 from her tomorrow morning (someone on the front line) will be vastly different to the news the media (who are often not on the ground and are just trying to get a good story)is reporting currently.

I doubt Kansi had a trouble-free launch either.

Any building this big will have issues till it gets bedded in and the works figure out it's quirks, just one of the facts of life.

Umm.. wasn't the avoidance of this sort of problem the whole reason for the trial days over recent months? Sorry, but being unable to check bags is more than 'teething troubles' I think.. broken escalators.. missing signs.. coke machines out of order.. those are teething troubles. Being unable to fly on your booked flight cos the entire baggage system has gone tits up.. that's a serious fault, a serious inconvenience, and PR disaster for BA and BAA.

I was in Changi T3 on the second day it was opened. Everything was perfect.

Originally posted by McCoy

I am not defending the dark side but it is important to remember:

1. The media often hype things way over the top.
2. BA is not solely responsible, BAA surely must be as well.

Trials did show some of these problems but I guess short of getting 2 million passengers you can never replicate the first day fully. Of course we do not know the full problems at the moment.

It is also worth noting this was the largest terminal move in history.

It would be nice to see Willy Walsh and the CEO of BAA down at T5 right now apologising. After all both were around this morning when all was running smoothly.

Originally posted by McCoy

I have to say I agree with McCoy, these are more than teething problems. As he said, having to cancel check-in of hold luggage is a big problem along with cancelling 34 flights and aircraft waiting nearly 2 hours for stands. A worker said that they've know about the problem for some time and that the computer system is unable to manage with the large volumes of luggage, however if they'd known they I can't imagine they'd have let these problems happen!

I've heard that many of the problems have arisen due to the problems the BA ground staff have been having with getting used to the new terminal and it's layout/systems.

I appreciate that this was a huge move for BA and a massive logistical challenge for BA/BAA and that problems have occurred in other airports e.g. Bangkok but there are more significant problems behind that such as building the airport on an old swamp, corruption and construction issues.

You do wonder what they've done wrong when you look at airports such as Singapore.

Yes, agreed. BAA certainly must take responsibility for this.

I'm not really watching media coverage of this - I'm just commenting on the facts, that the baggage system has failed, with rather dire consequences.


On the plus side, I'm off to BOS next week, and delighted I'll be connecting through T3, with VS.

Originally posted by McCoy
delighted I'll be connecting through T3...

I think it's probably the first time I've ever heard something like this [:p]

Did you see the ITN reporter that got stuck in a glass lift, they just left him there.

IMHO its been a complete farce, teething problems is one thing but every single aspect going pear shaped is bad management.

If this had happened to VAA then BA would be throwing a party.

Forgot to add the ITN reporter used the lift because the escalater had broken down[|:)]

I took part in one of the T5 trials back in February & whilst in some respects the terminal looked very finished & all but ready (shops just needed a final fit-out + merchandising / food outlets needed a final fit-out) the trials were clearly 'staged' to an extent. In many areas we went in there were signs up saying things like 'T5 proving trial area - NO equipment to be left in this area'. This gives the impression that behind the scenes, things may have been a bit more frantic.

My Dad is currently at T5 flying out on a long haul BA [obviously] flight. He had the foresight to take cabin baggage only - how pleased he will be that he made that decision! He did comment that the place is complete chaos - all the fast bag drop desks are closed and there are PA announcements going out basically saying 'We will update you when we know more'. You would have thought BA / BAA would have learnt from the January baggage system failure in T4 when they had to suspend all travel with checked luggage.

Of course, as others have said, this is not the first time an ambitious new airport project has come unstuck... Denver, Hong Kong, Bangkok etc... now call me a cynic, but I bet the tills are working fine in the World Duty Free shops airside in T5!

Will be interesting to see what tomorrows papers make of the opening day.

James

I have just received a text from my friend who is working in T5 as we speak- she said it was hell, she had been sworn at numerous times and had to call security once.

Will give you an update tomorrow (if she says its fine) on her opinion of the day today.

I think BA have tried to move too many flights into T5 too quickly. They should have started with say just half a dozen long-haul flights this week rather than all UK domestic, several long-haul and several European flights. Step things up slowly.

I really cant see why most (if not all) domestic flights needed to be moved out of T1 so quickly and all at once [:?]

Looking at the BAA web site it looks like several BA flights are cancelled tomorrow as well [n]

Regards

I bet the VS management team are absolutely wetting themselves....can I hear champagne corks being popped in Crawley?!!

Originally posted by pontig
I bet the VS management team are absolutely wetting themselves....can I hear champagne corks being popped in Crawley?!!

What goes around, comes around. Too much schadenfreude is a dangerous thing.


I bet the Bitches are glad they didn't go with BA this time.

Q: Why do I only date women I meet in T5?

A: No baggage!!!

Ba-dum-bum.

But seriously folks, this is more than teething, IMHO. I agree they should have ramped up slowly. I hope the baggage problems do not continue like Denver...argh...

Good luck to the stranded SLF...

GJ

Futher flights cancelled today.

Sky are showing no real lines at check in but massive lines at ticket sales desks.

Good old Simon Calder with the quote of the morning 'The new T5 is about as reliable as the Zimbabwean election'

Seems that BA staff are starting vent their anger on websites, not surprising given that BA seemed to imply it was their fault. Considering my friend wasn't even told which staff car park to park in yesterday it was a shambles from the start.

I must admit a mass move of the majority of flights was rather ambitious especially given the problems that Thai had in Bangkok.

I can understand why they moved so many flights at once - splitting 'like' operations between terminals leads to problems with staffing and aircraft positioning - but they must have reaslised there was a problem looming when they revised their original 'all operational move' to a two phase approach. Maybe they could have moved operations based on a/c type.

Incidentally I heard on the radio this morning that BAA are denying any blame saying that the luggage system was working perfectly. The problems were down to BA staff and their operation.

FM

Surely a project of this size will have a joint management team so to have BA and BAA blaming each other is ridiculous. Not to even check that the staff knew where to park (why wasn't this flagged up during the trial period?)shows either total arrogance or complete incompetence - I suspect it's probably both.

Originally posted by FamilyMan
Incidentally I heard on the radio this morning that BAA are denying any blame saying that the luggage system was working perfectly. The problems were down to BA staff and their operation.

Yes, if the reports are true it was the BA staff not clearing the bags off the system that caused the problem. Apparently the backlog grew and grew until the system shutdown. The reasons why they didn't get the bags out of the system in a timely fashion are of course complex. It seems staff were late turning up due to not finding parking places, taking ages getting through security, and getting lost in the unfamiliar terminal - all of which are familiarisation and truly teething problems. Only that so many teething problems led to a BIG problem.

I heard the BBC saying that although the BA ground staff where not familiar with the airport, there were problems with the actual baggage system. Apparently at one point the baggage handlers within the terminal were informed by the computer that a flight had departed from the gate, even though it was still sat there, and so they didn't send the bags out.

The local BA station manager here in BEG had asked my company to organise a champagne reception for all pax departing to LHR T5 to celebrate the new opening. At 10am this morning I got a call to postpone it. I wonder why [:D]

Iain