V-Flyer

Link here to bbc website about the a plane has come off the runway at Madrid airport with at least 20 people dead.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7572643.stm

How awful for the families involved.

Dominic

Originally posted by DMetters-Bone
How awful for the families involved.

I completely agree as I am sure all members of this site do.

Just seen this on Sky News. Doesn't look good at all, and reports are suggesting it could be nearer 100 fatalities. I sincerely hope this isn't the case but the pictures don't give out that much hope.

France24 reporting at least 45 dead and 40 injured

SAS (part owner of JK) are confirming that 166 passengers on board with at least 100 dead. A.net also confirming through ACARS that the a/c had an aborted take off on its first attempt.

Clearly figures are going up and down at this time. Pictures on Sky News seem to confirm a massive fire from an engine. Aircraft involved was an MD-82, I believe, which has tail mounted engines.

Spanish authorities really have reacted well from the pictures.

THoughts are with all those families and friends of the passengers.

some reports are saying 150 dead including 2 babies

my heart goes out to them

Press Conference to be held at 6pm.

Both Sky and BBC are talking about this being the 'worst aviation disaster for years' this truly is very sad for all the families and friends of those affected.

How awful. My thoughts are with them all.

Truly very sad. I'm guessing we won't know for a while why they aborted the first attempt and if that was linked to the eventual problem that caused the crash.

Link to Guardian Website http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/20/spain3
Looks like it could be up to 150 dead. Really horrible, feel for everyone involved.

How awful for everyone involved. Our thoughts and prayers are with them all.

Its easy to become blase about flying - something like this really makes you think.

How dreadful for all concerned including the airline staff.....


Dom

I agree that it is a tragedy for the people involved and their families but let's try and keep some perspective. According to this source in 2006 1.2 MILLION people died on the world's roads. SO I really find it hard to get too upset about a few hundred people. I'm not trying to be unfeeling but if I felt every unjust/unfair death in the world I'd be too upset to function. S*** happens and if it doesn't happen to anyone we know or ourselves we should count ourselves lucky.

Originally posted by Decker
S*** happens and if it doesn't happen to anyone we know or ourselves we should count ourselves lucky.

But I WANT shit to happen to some people I know.

Did the plane in Spain fall mainly due to rain?

GJ

There was NO rain involved. It was sunny and hot. The grass started burning, delaying access to the plane, and possibly causing people to stay inside and burn to death. But that's just guesswork.

S.

Originally posted by VAFFPAX
There was NO rain involved. It was sunny and hot. The grass started burning, delaying access to the plane, and possibly causing people to stay inside and burn to death. But that's just guesswork.

S.

Guesswork, but nonetheless astute.

GJ

I know people die in car accidents but being this is my chosen profession I am really upset for those involved. One of my worst fears is turning on the news and seeing a Virgin plane accident. The hundreds of faces and names that would run through my mind and the fear of losing even one of them would be horrible. My heart goes out to all of the employees of Spanair and all the families of passengers and crew on board.

Galley Guy. I know exactly how you feel. I lost colleagues and friends all of whom I knew when Pulkovo lost an IL86 on a repositioning flight from Moscow to St Petes a few years back.

Also I had a friend on board a Malev flight that skidded off the runway in Pristina whilst I was working in the terminal. Not a nice feeling involved especialy when you hear the chatter on the 2 way.

Aviation is a great business to work in but when an accidient happens the numbers are usually high.

Originally posted by Galley Guy
I know people die in car accidents but being this is my chosen profession I am really upset for those involved. One of my worst fears is turning on the news and seeing a Virgin plane accident. The hundreds of faces and names that would run through my mind and the fear of losing even one of them would be horrible. My heart goes out to all of the employees of Spanair and all the families of passengers and crew on board.

Completely agree and sympathise but hope this will not happen.

One may also transpose this to other accidents, I recall the Kings Cross fire, knowing that many of my friends used the station at the time and then the scrambling around afterwards trying to learn who was OK and finding out who wasn't.

My MiL is in Spain at the moment. Naturally I took time out to check that she was OK. Twin towers? Checked on NYC friends. I fully understand that when you are in the industry your viewpoint is likely to be more involved and compassionate/heartfelt than mine as SLF. Perhaps Ian has hit it on the head when he says that 'when an accident happens the numbers are usually high'. Point remains as echoed by all 'how awful for the people involved' but it won't make me think twice about flying in the same way as I don't hesitate to get in the car and drive.

I have noticed that the media are barely mentioning the 19 who survived.

Originally posted by VAFFPAX
There was NO rain involved. It was sunny and hot. The grass started burning, delaying access to the plane, and possibly causing people to stay inside and burn to death. But that's just guesswork.

I would imagine that the a/c was not intact by the time of impact. V1 would usually be at about 180 miles an hour (Denzil and Bill S will be able to confirm this). Reports are saying the a/c was airborne so we can assume it was moving at a faster speed than that. Hitting the ground from height (even if it was only 200 feet) at that speed would cause the a/c to split open. Images this morning support this.

It is also worth remembering that some of the 19 survivors just walked away.

I do understand what Decker is saying though. The thing is as it does not happen everyday of the week the media will run it as a major headline, where as the car crash last night down the road has not even made the local rag.

It seems wing flaps failure was the cause of this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7618627.stm

Oh dear. So, the flaps would in theory be set to the correct position in the cockpit but the actual surfaces hadn't moved to thier proper position then, when the point of rotation was reached the aircraft would just be stuck with it's nosewheel in the air as there wasn't enough lift to bring it off the ground at that particular speed.

Sounds like an impossibe position for the pilots.

John

Crumbs.. that's not a scenario they would have run through in the sim!