Air France flight missing over the Atlantic
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 12:26Link - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8076848.stm
Thread moved to 'other airlines' by mod.....Nick
Thread moved to 'other airlines' by mod.....Nick
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Air France flight missing over the Atlantic
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Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 12:26Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 12:46Worrying! Very worrying! A.net is going mad
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 12:53This is awful.
According to Sky a French radio station is reporting an Air France source stating that there is no hope for this aircraft.
Sky NEws are now of course doing their usual tabloid reporting, saying its worried that the plane is only two engines etc etc. Apart from the fact that a huge number of 2 engined planes cross oceans everyday without any incident.
Personally the lack of radio contact is very worrying. Thoughts with all the families.
According to Sky a French radio station is reporting an Air France source stating that there is no hope for this aircraft.
Sky NEws are now of course doing their usual tabloid reporting, saying its worried that the plane is only two engines etc etc. Apart from the fact that a huge number of 2 engined planes cross oceans everyday without any incident.
Personally the lack of radio contact is very worrying. Thoughts with all the families.
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 12:59Just awful, Air France apparently confirmed the loss, either somewhere off the Brazilian or the Moroccan coast (confusing reports) ... would be the first time an A330 has been lost if true.
My prayers to all involved.
My prayers to all involved.
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 13:26Loads of complete round objects being raised in speculation as to possible causes from hydraulics and inversion currents to engine failure.
They can't even get the timings right of when the place was due and getting confused with GMT / BST and CET.
Now spouting off that the route is at the limit of the range for a two engine plane and that they are working the planes too hard.
Yes this is serious but idle speculation does not help.
They can't even get the timings right of when the place was due and getting confused with GMT / BST and CET.
Now spouting off that the route is at the limit of the range for a two engine plane and that they are working the planes too hard.
Yes this is serious but idle speculation does not help.
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 13:27Horrid. Was there bad weather involved? Reports I've seen are silent.
Makes me think twice about complaining that the Pretzels have gone when something like this happens.
Makes me think twice about complaining that the Pretzels have gone when something like this happens.
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 13:39Pretty much now would be the time to turn of the TV, nobody has a clue yet what has happened, if the plane is down, what caused it.
I do hold out a little hope, wasn't there a Turkish airliner that was reported missing last year, it turned up at a remote airport with all comm's lost ? a very remote chance I know, but these thing do happen.
quote:Originally posted by ryand
Worrying! Very worrying! A.net is going mad
A'Net is the first place I turn to when something happens, they have more people in the industry than any TV station and more people with knowledge on there.
I do hold out a little hope, wasn't there a Turkish airliner that was reported missing last year, it turned up at a remote airport with all comm's lost ? a very remote chance I know, but these thing do happen.
quote:Originally posted by ryand
Worrying! Very worrying! A.net is going mad
A'Net is the first place I turn to when something happens, they have more people in the industry than any TV station and more people with knowledge on there.
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 13:42AFP, the French News Agency, has ruled out hijacking.
Air France says the flight encountered 'Strong Turbulence' and had electrical circuit breakdown
Brazil Air Force Colonel Frank Ferreire speaking on CBN radio says the plane left radar between Natal and Ilha Do Sal, Cape Verde
Also 10 minutes ago, Charles De Gaulle Airport Arrival Hall 2E evacuated due to a suspect package
Air France says the flight encountered 'Strong Turbulence' and had electrical circuit breakdown
Brazil Air Force Colonel Frank Ferreire speaking on CBN radio says the plane left radar between Natal and Ilha Do Sal, Cape Verde
Also 10 minutes ago, Charles De Gaulle Airport Arrival Hall 2E evacuated due to a suspect package
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 14:12Air France says lost contact 'very far from coast in mid atlantic', not ruling out lightning strike, plane sent automatic distress signals
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 14:49quote:Originally posted by willd
Sky NEws are now of course doing their usual tabloid reporting, saying its worried that the plane is only two engines etc etc. Apart from the fact that a huge number of 2 engined planes cross oceans everyday without any incident.
I've always found Sky News to be one of the worst when it comes to reporting incidents like this. Am currently reading A.net - let's hope there's so better news soon even though it doesn't look good.
Sky NEws are now of course doing their usual tabloid reporting, saying its worried that the plane is only two engines etc etc. Apart from the fact that a huge number of 2 engined planes cross oceans everyday without any incident.
I've always found Sky News to be one of the worst when it comes to reporting incidents like this. Am currently reading A.net - let's hope there's so better news soon even though it doesn't look good.
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 15:23Very tragic, early reports would suggest it is very unlikely that there will be any survivors. Our thoughts and prayers to all the friends and relatives of the passengers and crew.
It seems that only an automated distress call went out, so events may have overtaken the crew very quickly. As has been said the short circuit may have been caused by a lightning strike or, of course, it could be one of many other reasons; I guess the chances of pinpointing the aircraft are very remote which makes recovering the aircrafts black boxes highly unlikely.
It seems that only an automated distress call went out, so events may have overtaken the crew very quickly. As has been said the short circuit may have been caused by a lightning strike or, of course, it could be one of many other reasons; I guess the chances of pinpointing the aircraft are very remote which makes recovering the aircrafts black boxes highly unlikely.
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 17:06Just awful news. There doesn't seem much hope that there are any survivors. Thoughts are with the families.
DMB
DMB
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 17:40It's the not knowing why which makes it even worse, and as you say, unlikely they will find the black boxes if it's far out at sea, so we may never know. A truly horrific thing to happen.
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 18:38I can't believe this, how awful for all those concerned.
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 21:16AF is now saying that the aircraft sent a message saying that they were losing pressurization and were having electrical problems, this is not going to end on a happy note [:#]
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 22:44Very sad day & thoughts go to family/friends of those on board.
Scrooge, the messages that are mentioned are common to most modern Airbus/Boeing aircraft. They are part of the aircraft central maintenance systems that monitor the aircraft from engine start to shutdown. Some of these messages would be automatically generated & downloaded without the crews knowledge.
Scrooge, the messages that are mentioned are common to most modern Airbus/Boeing aircraft. They are part of the aircraft central maintenance systems that monitor the aircraft from engine start to shutdown. Some of these messages would be automatically generated & downloaded without the crews knowledge.
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 22:52so so sad. we handle air france at MAN so we were all shocked when we heard this. one of the pax on said flight was supposed to be transferring into manchester from paris which sent a chill down many a spine to say the least.
hopefully they can find the a/c soon so that the families of pax and crew can at least accept whats happened rather than not knowing.
hopefully they can find the a/c soon so that the families of pax and crew can at least accept whats happened rather than not knowing.
Posted: 01 Jun 2009, 23:34Denzil you beat me to it old chap. It seems the messages sent were standard messages sent by the aircraft rather than by the pilots.
What I find interesting is that Reuters are reporting that LH had two aircraft flying the exact same routing as the AF last night. One 30 mins before and the other (a cargo MD-11) 4 hours after. These were the last/first to cross before/after the AF jet. Neither of them reported anything other than mild turbulence one would expect at this time of year.
The media seem to be looking straight at the lightning strike, personally I dont believe it could be that obvious, there will be more to this. After all, as someone on a.net posted, aircraft are tested to withstand over 30 lightning strikes at once (apparently).
A.net is a wealth of info on this as Scrooge says.
Very sad day indeed.
What I find interesting is that Reuters are reporting that LH had two aircraft flying the exact same routing as the AF last night. One 30 mins before and the other (a cargo MD-11) 4 hours after. These were the last/first to cross before/after the AF jet. Neither of them reported anything other than mild turbulence one would expect at this time of year.
The media seem to be looking straight at the lightning strike, personally I dont believe it could be that obvious, there will be more to this. After all, as someone on a.net posted, aircraft are tested to withstand over 30 lightning strikes at once (apparently).
A.net is a wealth of info on this as Scrooge says.
Very sad day indeed.
Posted: 02 Jun 2009, 00:58It was a real shock when I heard it on the radio this morning, totally unexpected, as any event of this type is.
Still no real indication of whats happened, and I agree with all the comments above, the increasingly bizzare media suggestions as to what occurred isn't helping; someone on CNN just said it could have been a bird strike (I did nearly choke)
Just awful to think of it; I just hope somthing is found to give those left behind somthing to mourn, and for an apropriate investigation to take place.
My best wishes go out to all those with relatives and freinds on AF447
Still no real indication of whats happened, and I agree with all the comments above, the increasingly bizzare media suggestions as to what occurred isn't helping; someone on CNN just said it could have been a bird strike (I did nearly choke)
Just awful to think of it; I just hope somthing is found to give those left behind somthing to mourn, and for an apropriate investigation to take place.
My best wishes go out to all those with relatives and freinds on AF447
Posted: 02 Jun 2009, 14:51Brazilian Air Force found wreckage in Atlantic Ocean, 400 miles off coast of Brazil's Fernando de Noronha island, found oil, a plane seat and other debris
Posted: 02 Jun 2009, 22:02quote:Originally posted by carter
Brazilian Air Force found wreckage in Atlantic Ocean, 400 miles off coast of Brazil's Fernando de Noronha island, found oil, a plane seat and other debris
Still sadly, remaining to be confirmed.
The BBC and lots of other news orgs are now suggestion a bomb on board, maybe as a result of the lack of hard facts.
Brazilian Air Force found wreckage in Atlantic Ocean, 400 miles off coast of Brazil's Fernando de Noronha island, found oil, a plane seat and other debris
Still sadly, remaining to be confirmed.
The BBC and lots of other news orgs are now suggestion a bomb on board, maybe as a result of the lack of hard facts.
Posted: 03 Jun 2009, 09:52quote:Originally posted by slinky09
quote:Originally posted by carter
Brazilian Air Force found wreckage in Atlantic Ocean, 400 miles off coast of Brazil's Fernando de Noronha island, found oil, a plane seat and other debris
Still sadly, remaining to be confirmed.
The BBC and lots of other news orgs are now suggestion a bomb on board, maybe as a result of the lack of hard facts.
Been confirmed the debris is that of the aircraft, spread over a 5km stretch of Ocean
quote:Originally posted by carter
Brazilian Air Force found wreckage in Atlantic Ocean, 400 miles off coast of Brazil's Fernando de Noronha island, found oil, a plane seat and other debris
Still sadly, remaining to be confirmed.
The BBC and lots of other news orgs are now suggestion a bomb on board, maybe as a result of the lack of hard facts.
Been confirmed the debris is that of the aircraft, spread over a 5km stretch of Ocean
Posted: 03 Jun 2009, 11:24This is a horrific accident by all accounts...
I found a very detailed analysis of the weather surrounding the flight earlier, which made for a very educational read:
http://www.weathergraphics.com/tim/af447/
I found a very detailed analysis of the weather surrounding the flight earlier, which made for a very educational read:
http://www.weathergraphics.com/tim/af447/
Posted: 03 Jun 2009, 12:39There is something interesting information being posted all the time on a.net and various other sites.
The (chillingly named) Coffin Corner theory strikes me as the most logical theory followed by the fact that the pilots attempted to turn the aircraft back. This accounts why the wreckage was found nearer to Brazil than the last ACARS reading (taking into account swell in the sea etc). The media seem to want to pin this on the pilots (ie: no mayday call etc) but as has been debated on a.net the HF radio out there is rubbish and secondly pilots are taught to 'Aviate, navigate, communicate'. If the AF 330 did enter the coffin corner then communication would have been the last thing on their minds.
I spoke to a good friend who is an FO with QF on the 744 and he confirmed that once you enter the coffin corner, it is really hard for the aircraft to get out of it.
The (chillingly named) Coffin Corner theory strikes me as the most logical theory followed by the fact that the pilots attempted to turn the aircraft back. This accounts why the wreckage was found nearer to Brazil than the last ACARS reading (taking into account swell in the sea etc). The media seem to want to pin this on the pilots (ie: no mayday call etc) but as has been debated on a.net the HF radio out there is rubbish and secondly pilots are taught to 'Aviate, navigate, communicate'. If the AF 330 did enter the coffin corner then communication would have been the last thing on their minds.
I spoke to a good friend who is an FO with QF on the 744 and he confirmed that once you enter the coffin corner, it is really hard for the aircraft to get out of it.
Posted: 03 Jun 2009, 13:06Whats 'coffin corner'?