V-Flyer

The move seems designed to secure the future of Continental's NYC service.

Details

CO don't codeshare with anyone UK to BFS if I remember correctly...

What crap, on the same basis the ease of travelling to AMS should be cause to scrap it from London ... I don't see why BFS should get preferential treatment when say NCL does not ... it should be scrapped for all.

They say it's because pax from NI can travel to Dublin and avoid the tax, so it's to be competitive with an easily accessible airport in what is a foreign country; so it is different from Britain.

Sealink wrote:They say it's because pax from NI can travel to Dublin and avoid the tax, so it's to be competitive with an easily accessible airport in what is a foreign country; so it is different from Britain.

And that is what I meant, if you live in Norwich say, it is as easy to get to AMS as LGW on KLM, and with the pricing ex-Europe on offer often cheaper ...

I dunno, I just hate our tax system especially when it is not applied evenly.

Sealink wrote:They say it's because pax from NI can travel to Dublin and avoid the tax, so it's to be competitive with an easily accessible airport in what is a foreign country; so it is different from Britain.

Here's a link to the story with details of the tax. Belfast is only a couple of hours away from Dublin (where there is a variety of US destinations and US carriers) so paying €3 rather than £120/€138 is a very attractive proposition.

slinky09 wrote:

Sealink wrote:They say it's because pax from NI can travel to Dublin and avoid the tax, so it's to be competitive with an easily accessible airport in what is a foreign country; so it is different from Britain.

And that is what I meant, if you live in Norwich say, it is as easy to get to AMS as LGW on KLM, and with the pricing ex-Europe on offer often cheaper ...

I dunno, I just hate our tax system especially when it is not applied evenly.

slinky, there is a difference in someone going from Norwich to AMS to get a cheap fare as opposed to someone travelling from Belfast to Dublin. For the former you have to get a flight to AMS and then back to the UK and onwards to the US; for the latter you simply drive 100 miles down the road

I do agree though with the nonsense of the UK tax which is making passengers head for Europe as a departure point. I notice that BA is also accepting that Ireland in the same category as AMS. I recently priced a BA flight ex-Cork and it worked out cheaper than ex-LHR

Actually HL I disagree, it may be no more time, and could even be cheaper to do a European connection. But I see your point all the same.

The really interesting thing is that Osborne recognizes that APD costs ...

Whatever happened to the APD consultation that Osborne launched earlier this year?

The really interesting thing is that Osborne recognizes that APD costs ...

The personal 'cost' to me & my family is the hard fact that for the first time in 10 years, we won't be doing a shopping trip to New York in December v( .

The APD has affected the travel plans of the 'holiday' traveller and this coupled with the excessive and unreasonable fuel charges is making air travel a luxury and pure history to many.

Last year I remember hearing on the radio the Travel Expert guy saying that the Government and the Airlines are killing the non-business travellers. He also predicted that by the end of 2011 things will have to change. The old saying comes to mind, you can make money out of over-charging a minority but you're actually missing out on millions of revenue by not pitching to the majority. I think the recent lengthy sale, and then extended sale, fares are a good example, they are all desperate for business. Yes a few peak weeks get booked up each year but its all the other weeks that are of concern.
APD must be lowered, as well as the fuel charges.

I think I also read somewhere this week about BA dropping one route - Bahamas I think, but don't quote me on that - because of APD (no doubt someone here will have read the article properly!)

Much the same thing with fuel surcharges though... the price can and does fall considerably, yet the only way it ever goes for us is up, both with flights and with cars. I'm astounded how companies get away with it...

Hev60 wrote:
The personal 'cost' to me & my family is the hard fact that for the first time in 10 years, we won't be doing a shopping trip to New York in December v( .

Oh poor you whatever will you do? ): )

cheers

alex y)

catsilversword wrote:I think I also read somewhere this week about BA dropping one route - Bahamas I think, but don't quote me on that - because of APD (no doubt someone here will have read the article properly!)

Much the same thing with fuel surcharges though... the price can and does fall considerably, yet the only way it ever goes for us is up, both with flights and with cars. I'm astounded how companies get away with it...

Montego Bay I saw on the front page of The Gleaner in Sainburys. But one flight will me moved to Kingston.

But its down to low pax numbers and partly due to Air Jamaica increasing the number of flights it operates. BUT arrivals from other countries like Canada are also falling so its not just down to APD.

I did some calculations a year ago that showed that APD was actually a relativly small part of the overall cost of the ticket and that the VS fuel surcharge was often double the APD.

Alex V wrote:

Hev60 wrote:
The personal 'cost' to me & my family is the hard fact that for the first time in 10 years, we won't be doing a shopping trip to New York in December v( .

Oh poor you whatever will you do? ): )

cheers

alex y)

Joking aside, I think the airlines will never persuade governments to rethink the tax using these arguments. I love holidays, and even I switch off when VS says things like "...will add £xxx to a family holiday to the Caribbean".

With regards to Belfast - there is a big difference, because enough people are flying from Dublin to risk CO pulling off the route.

It's simply not the same as people flying via AMS to get longhaul.

The fact that I can do LON-AMS, AMS-LON-NYC-LON-AMS far more cheaply than LON-NYC-LON is due to airlines pricing policies, and less the tax structure. Virgin and BA are offer cheaper fares as they do not fly direct from AMS, so they compete on price. Exactly as KLM do to UK customers via AMS.

Sealink wrote:The fact that I can do LON-AMS, AMS-LON-NYC-LON-AMS far more cheaply than LON-NYC-LON is due to airlines pricing policies, and less the tax structure. Virgin and BA are offer cheaper fares as they do not fly direct from AMS, so they compete on price. Exactly as KLM do to UK customers via AMS.

That's true Billy - it is down to airline pricing. I have done LON-ZRH-USA twice now and the flights (business) were much cheaper on LX than VS/BA/DL etc

And that still factored in the APD that I still had to pay because I started my trip from the UK.

Next time I fly I WILL be looking at the AMS 'trick'

Does anyone seriously think that if APD is scrapped or lowered, airfares will actually come down?

I think airlines will simply keep fares about the same and gobble up the difference as profit.

The fuel surcharge is a far higher percentage of fares than APD, and this is where consumers should be focusing in my view.

clarkeysntfc wrote:
The fuel surcharge is a far higher percentage of fares than APD, and this is where consumers should be focusing in my view.

Ok call me nerdy but I got the calculator out and did a few dummy bookings

LHR-NYC Out 12/1/12 Back 17/1/12. Out on VS03 back on VS18

In all cases the airport fees / US transport taxes = £ 66.73

Y - £ 374. Base fare = £ 75!.
Fuel Surcharge = £ 175 = 46.79% of total fare
APD = £ 60 = 16.04% of total fare
Bucket = O/O

PE - £ 1,041. Base fare = £ 679
Fuel Surcharge = £ 175 = 16.81% of total fare
APD = £ 120 = 11.52% of total fare
Bucket = K/K


UC - £ 2,366. Base fare = £ 1,924.
Fuel Surcharge = £ 255 = 10.78% of total fare
APD = £ 120 = 5.07% of total fare
Bucket = Z/Z

BFS - JFK, direct with CO.
Have to go back to work, this is their breakdown of a GBP 418 fare:

Total Fare: GBP 418.00
Fuel Surcharge 132.00 GBP
U.S. APHIS User Fee 3.20 GBP
U.S. Immigration User Fee 4.50 GBP
U.S. Customs User Fee 3.60 GBP
U.K. Air Passenger Duty 60.00 GBP
U.K. Passenger Service Charge 13.00 GBP
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax 10.60 GBP
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax 10.60 GBP
September 11th Security Fee 1.60 GBP
U.S. Passenger Facility Charge 2.90 GBP


Business First TOTAL FARE GBP 1742.00
Fuel Surcharge 132.00 GBP
U.S. APHIS User Fee 3.20 GBP
U.S. Immigration User Fee 4.50 GBP
U.S. Customs User Fee 3.60 GBP
U.K. Air Passenger Duty 120.00 GBP
U.K. Passenger Service Charge 13.00 GBP
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax 10.60 GBP
U.S. Federal Transportation Tax 10.60 GBP
September 11th Security Fee 1.60 GBP
U.S. Passenger Facility Charge 2.90 GBP

clarkeysntfc wrote:Does anyone seriously think that if APD is scrapped or lowered, airfares will actually come down?

I think airlines will simply keep fares about the same and gobble up the difference as profit.

When the APD was reduced in Ireland from €10 to €3 the then Finance Minister was quite clear that airlines must not incorporate it into their fares and this would be monitored. This was effective from March 1 of whatever year it was. I had already had a flight booked for after that date and I received a refund of €7 to my card without seeking it

Ok call me nerdy but I got the calculator out and did a few dummy bookings

.

Calculations interesting but am I missing the point somewhere along the line. How can a standard fuel surcharge be higher for a passenger flying UC? £225 vs £175 for PAX in Y and PE v(
This seems grossly unfair. Of course I'm being very generous with my sympathy, considering I can't even afford to fly bucket fare class ecomony to New York

It is like any excess increase, for as long as 'they' get away with it then why rethink the fairness of the situation.

In order to preserve frequent trips to the USA I may start routing via Europe/BFS/DUB - sounds like a serious cost saving proposition! y)