V-Flyer

Norwegian DY announced their 3 transatlantic routes from LGW commencing July 2014.

LGW-FLL 2 x week mon & Fri 1555/2100 2230/1155+1
LGW-JFK 3 x week Tue, Thu & Sat 1710/2000 2130/0900+1
LGW-LAX 2 x week Wednesday & Sunday 1535/1835 2030/1500+1

Prices don't look too bad, the concern I feel is that all of this looks to be operated by a LGW based single B787. It does look as if they've allowed some time buffer in the schedule for delays etc, but if a flight goes tech it could throw the whole schedule into disaray. Given the recent fun and games they've had with their recently acquired 787's it will be interesting to see how this venture goes.

Very interesting.

I wonder how Fort Lauderdale will work out: presumably immigration queues will be a lot shorter than MIA or MCO which will make it attractive to those in the know. But do enough Brits know about it and want to go there? And Mon & Fri seem odd days to fly there - I would have thought Sat would be of most use for the budget B&S travellers who'll use it.

Also - 90 minute turnarounds for Transatlantic flights? Sounds tight to me.

But it's good to see someone finally giving low-cost Transatlantic a go. I've never flown Norwegian - what's their service and in-flight experience like? And what do (and, more importantly, don't) you get for your £149 base fare?

gumshoe wrote:But it's good to see someone finally giving low-cost Transatlantic a go. I've never flown Norwegian - what's their service and in-flight experience like? And what do (and, more importantly, don't) you get for your £149 base fare?

According to the site you get:

The 787 Dreamliner experience (guess that currently means cancelled flights, delays or not even flying on a 787 at all - DY have had to use a leased in A340 as cover)

Timco leather seat with 31" pitch

Personal entertainment system

Touchscreen snack ordering

So no bags included, 1 bag is £20 or 2 for £40. However for £30 you can get 1 piece of luggage, seat assignment and meal. I consider FLL as possibly a cheaper way of getting to MCO, but a 2100 arrival, combined with a 3hr drive e/w? Maybe not! But not bad for those wanting to head for the coast though.

3-3-3 seating in Economy, and 2-3-2 in premium, not sure how wide the seats are,

I think I would try them on one of their European routes to sample the service before taking the plunge on flying across the pond with them.

FLL to tie in with cruises?

Having flown on a DY 787 from OSL to LGW the Y cabin is not bad. On a par with most Y products. The diference will be that DY are very much a low cost carrier. The food for example is expensive. I am sure there is a menu on their website.

Biggest problem I can see is that's a lot of eggs in one very new basket.

I assume Monday will be aircraft swap day, as assuming they're operating the whole schedule with one LGW-based 787, a 1500 arrival from LAX followed by a 1555 departure to FLL would be a challenge!

gumshoe wrote:I assume Monday will be aircraft swap day, as assuming they're operating the whole schedule with one LGW-based 787, a 1500 arrival from LAX followed by a 1555 departure to FLL would be a challenge!

Is this really achievable ? Sounds ridiculous to me

One thing that does seem very reasonable however is being able to get a one way fare if needed without having to buy a fully flexible one as seems the norm!

Economy fare sounds reasonable at £390 return to NYC in August VS £864 for same date, but premium on Norwegian comes in at £1210 compared to VS £1226 so virtually no saving.

I realise that premium isn't really the product they are pushing but still think they need to price themselves a little lower than that.

Blacky1 wrote:

gumshoe wrote:I assume Monday will be aircraft swap day, as assuming they're operating the whole schedule with one LGW-based 787, a 1500 arrival from LAX followed by a 1555 departure to FLL would be a challenge!

Is this really achievable ? Sounds ridiculous to me

Im thinking the same. dont they have to do regular maintanence? that would mean that the plane would have to be out of action for a whole day?

90 minute turnarounds for long haul? is that what other long haul airlines do?

I believe cheap is always cheap for a reason-what gets sacrificed to reduce costs that much is always my concern, ie 90 min turnaround plus maintanence and safety procedures. .

Darren Wheeler wrote:FLL to tie in with cruises?

Did this last month. Flew into MIA with VS then drove myself up to Fort Lauderdale.

Not sure if there are enough traffic through the cruise passengers for this to be sustainable. It is only 2 flights a week though.

Costs will probably be cheaper into FLL over the bigger airports.

gfonk wrote:That would mean that the plane would have to be out of action for a whole day?

90 minute turnarounds for long haul? is that what other long haul airlines do?

Monday seems to be the only day that the LGW turnaround is so tight, so my guess would be the same 787 will operate all the US flights from Monday to Sunday, then be taken out of service for maintenance on arrival back at LGW the following Mon.

Another 787 will then take over and operate the next week's schedule, starting with Monday's FLL flight.

As for the US turnarounds - BA and VS tend to allow at least 2-3 hours. I'm sure 90 minutes is possible but is it really enough for a thorough clean and service of such a big aircraft?

gumshoe wrote:As for the US turnarounds - BA and VS tend to allow at least 2-3 hours. I'm sure 90 minutes is possible but is it really enough for a thorough clean and service of such a big aircraft?

I suspect the honest answer is no, and presumably this is what helps to make such services 'low-cost'. i.e. they don't clean thoroughly. ):

90 minutes is really tight, when you think about how long it takes to refuel and unload etc. I suppose they don't have catering to load (I'm assuming it's just return-catered snacks for purchase -- maybe I'm wrong), but even so, it seems like a recipe for trouble.

Darren Wheeler wrote:FLL to tie in with cruises?

Partly but also as an alternative to MIA. There has always been a lot of talk about carriers moving up to FLL due to the horrid experience of MIA and lets face it they are only what 30 mins apart by car.

Interesting to see that DY decided not to go into MCO. They are operating into MCO from Scandanvia. Clearly they must have looked at it ex MCO but decided the competition was too great with BA/VS/TCX and of course TOM/MON up at SFB and that they could get better profits out of other routes from LGW whilst only having one 787 based there.

I expect MCO and OAK will be announced if a second 787 arrives. It is also worth noting that DY have announced further short haul expansion out of LGW for next year as well. They are clearly working hard on developing LGW into a hub, in theory these new routes ex LGW could appeal to those in say PMI as well with a connection at LGW.

gumshoe wrote:

gfonk wrote:That would mean that the plane would have to be out of action for a whole day?

90 minute turnarounds for long haul? is that what other long haul airlines do?

Monday seems to be the only day that the LGW turnaround is so tight, so my guess would be the same 787 will operate all the US flights from Monday to Sunday, then be taken out of service for maintenance on arrival back at LGW the following Mon.

Another 787 will then take over and operate the next week's schedule, starting with Monday's FLL flight.

I think you are right but they could also do a 'VS' and swap aircraft at both FLL and JFK, which are going to be served from Oslo, Stockholm and Copenhagen. The swap would be in addition to the Monday change over at LGW. I must admit before looking at the schedule I thought they would be doing a swap as this would be cheaper than flying an empty 787 in from CPH/OSL/ARN on a Monday. Remember all cabin crew are US based.

All in all good like to DY. They seem to have a good product.

Reading TheDibb, it seems that a lot of the 'introductory' fares have gone and only prices around all the other carriers can be found for the popular dates.

I noticed that NAS are advertising hard on the Tube- adverts quite common place over the weekend including on the TV screen type adverts that are now common place at major tube platforms.

Secondly its well known that NAS go in, offer silly fares to drum up interest and then slowly but surely hike the prices. Hence the lack of cheap flights for the key school holiday dates. Hardly surprising and no different to any other airline.

willd wrote:

Darren Wheeler wrote:FLL to tie in with cruises?

Partly but also as an alternative to MIA. There has always been a lot of talk about carriers moving up to FLL due to the horrid experience of MIA and lets face it they are only what 30 mins apart by car.

Interesting to see that DY decided not to go into MCO. They are operating into MCO from Scandanvia. Clearly they must have looked at it ex MCO but decided the competition was too great with BA/VS/TCX and of course TOM/MON up at SFB and that they could get better profits out of other routes from LGW whilst only having one 787 based there.

I expect MCO and OAK will be announced if a second 787 arrives. It is also worth noting that DY have announced further short haul expansion out of LGW for next year as well. They are clearly working hard on developing LGW into a hub, in theory these new routes ex LGW could appeal to those in say PMI as well with a connection at LGW.

gumshoe wrote:

gfonk wrote:That would mean that the plane would have to be out of action for a whole day?

90 minute turnarounds for long haul? is that what other long haul airlines do?

Monday seems to be the only day that the LGW turnaround is so tight, so my guess would be the same 787 will operate all the US flights from Monday to Sunday, then be taken out of service for maintenance on arrival back at LGW the following Mon.

Another 787 will then take over and operate the next week's schedule, starting with Monday's FLL flight.

I think you are right but they could also do a 'VS' and swap aircraft at both FLL and JFK, which are going to be served from Oslo, Stockholm and Copenhagen. The swap would be in addition to the Monday change over at LGW. I must admit before looking at the schedule I thought they would be doing a swap as this would be cheaper than flying an empty 787 in from CPH/OSL/ARN on a Monday. Remember all cabin crew are US based.

All in all good like to DY. They seem to have a good product.

Having had a quick look at the arrival times into JFK and FLL ex Scandinavia they dont allow sufficient time for a swap. What I think might happen is this - on a monday they could schedule a 787 to operate a revenue sector ex OSL or similar to LGW and the inbound LAX flight then operates the return sector back to Scandinavia to then go in for maintenance.

I can't see this working, really.

The transatlantic market has a history of casualties, and in fact, on numerous dates Norwegian are charging far more than BA/VS/UA/AA/DL, when you factor in luggage charges.

Yes, the initial fares are headline grabbing, but only FLL seems like a market where they offer something genuinely novel for travellers from London.

We recently strayed away from VS. We do MAN-MCO Premium with Virgin usually but got a deal on the Thomson 787 in their premium alternative so after the hype we thought we'd give it a go as we saved £1000. Would we do it again? NO. It wasn't bad by any means but the whole Virgin experience from the day of booking makes the holiday feel special and we felt like cattle this time. Customer service and staff are not a patch on Virgin!!£1000 is a big saving but in future we'll save for a little bit longer and stick with Virgin!

This may not even launch now.

It's come to light that Norwegian are trying to recruit under Singaporean employment rules and register the aircraft in Ireland, not Norway. I don't pretend to understand the complexities but it's claim it creates a 'flag of convenience' for the air and breaks the EU-US Open Skies agreement. Would also explain the low cost too.

http://www.alpa.org/Portals/Alpa/PressR ... _13.68.htm

It's currently being investigated and a ruling is awaited.