V-Flyer

What's going on? New airlines take off, as old ones crash and burn. It's a cut-throat world out there, at 35,000 feet.

First we hear today news that low-cost Scottish airline Air Scotland is going quietly down the pan. The founder has sold up, and the compnay has huge unpaid debts. 200 people are stuck in Glasgow, with their flight to Alicante grounded, pending unpaid fuel debts.

Oh yeah, and Air Scotland last week applied for permission to operate a twice-weekly service to Baghdad, Iraq.

Hmmm.....

Meanwhile, two new airlines have launched today, both flying from Stanstead to NY JFK. However, what stands out is that they are business class-only!

Eos and Maxjet have a business model that will directly target the business travellers, currently using BA and VS.

Eos
---
Fare: London to JFK: £3,550 return after initial offer period
Number of aircraft: One Boeing 757
Number of seats: 48
Seat size: 78in flatbed

Maxjet
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Fare: $779 each way
Number of aircraft: One Boeing 767
Number of seats: 102
Seat size: 60in recliner

One flight each way, per day. And no frequent flyer program associations. Surely this is a corporate mistake? But the founder and chief executive of Eos is Dave Spurlock, an American who was formerly director of strategy at British Airways. And he was good at his job.

With such competition in pricing and routing between current airlines, I just can't see how there is room for new airlines. This isn't necessarily good for the passenger, especially if you're an Air Scotland customer!

Just a gentle reminder - can we please keep all discussion regarding MaxJet & EOS to this thread, that was started very recently.


(PS - the search tool is here )

Okay.
Strictly speaking, I wanted to discuss the UK airline industry in general.. but point taken.

/me blushes, and sits down quietly in the corner...

No requirement for blushing

It was more a nudge to ensure we don't end up with a 4th "MAXjet thread". In terms of other UK airlines, yup - the winds of change are certainly in motion...

Okay, three more thoughts to ponder in this thread...

1. Who think Stelios will sell his 40% stake in Easyjet before the end of 2006, and Easyjet will be subject to a take-over? (perhaps to Icelandair?)

2. Air France and KLM seem to have successfully merged... would national carrier of the UK merge with another European airline? (I don't think so!)

3. Ryanair.. how much longer for goodness sake????

Originally posted by McCoy
Okay, three more thoughts to ponder in this thread...

1. Who think Stelios will sell his 40% stake in Easyjet before the end of 2006, and Easyjet will be subject to a take-over? (perhaps to Icelandair?)

2. Air France and KLM seem to have successfully merged... would national carrier of the UK merge with another European airline? (I don't think so!)

3. Ryanair.. how much longer for goodness sake????

1. Well, Stelios re-joined the board recently, and Iceland Air have been buying up easy stock - maybe....

2. BA own a small part (10%?) of Iberia, and its long been rumoured that this will lead to an eventual take-over/merger by BA. The new CEO does not appear to have commented yet on this though (or has he?)

3. As for Ryanair, they're going to have to face reality and raise fares a little at some point - surely!?

From what I understand through all the rumours and mis-information, Ryanair make their money on the airport kickbacks and in-flight sales. The 29p they take for the seat itself is irrelevant to their balance sheet.

However, I have little time for them. They recently issued a press release slagging off EasyJet when EJ annouced they were starting the Milan route. Ryanair went on about on-time performance and cost. Well, of course it's easy for Ryanair to be on-time when they fly to out-of-town airports that have no congestion - it also means their costs are significantly lower. What they fail to mention in their slagging off of EasyJet is that for their passengers to get into the heart of the city they thought they were flying to, chances are they'll have to stump up more in taxi fares than the perceived "saving".

Anyways, rant over. If Ryanair would just be more honest about their product, I'd have an awful lot more respect for them.

Pete

Quality rant, Pete.

Personally, I just hate the shifty underhanded b****rds. [:(!]

Originally posted by preiffer
Quality rant, Pete.

Personally, I just hate the shifty underhanded b****rds. [:(!]

Hear, hear! OK so I haven't had a bad flight on them when I have been forced to take them but I really hate their intense in-flight marketing. However they really have got up my nose lately with their entry into the ORK-LGW market (designed no doubt to push Easyjet out) and also the ORK-DUB market. The latter was perfectly adequately served by Aer Arann. OK, their prices are higher than Ryanair and they fly ATR 72/42s but with nine flights a day there has been plenty of choice. In addition they have been great at getting you on to an earlier flight if your meeting ends early. However on of the great benefits which I am sure we will lose is the return check-in that Aer Arann does when you check in for your outbound flight. Having your return boarding card is a huge bonus if you start to run late.

Originally posted by preiffer
Quality rant, Pete.

Personally, I just hate the shifty underhanded b****rds. [:(!]

If I had any doubt beforehand, I only had to watch Watchdog last week (to see RyanAir's disgraceful treatment of blind pax) to completely put me off them.

Cheers

Michael

I am not wealthy but for gods sake when are we going to learn that we get what we pay for (see BSE, childrens school meals etc)with Ryan air we get crappy service but a flight. If we want personable staff, some one to sort out problems and general good treatment then we have to pay for it. SORRY but this is my high horse as I work in an industry where every one goes for the cheapest quote then rings rogue traders when it goes pear shaped.
Dont know how to do the fancy timers yet but im going to barbados on the 31st.

with Ryan air we get crappy service but a flight

Well in my last report my comments about Ryanair were that it does what it says on the tin - gets you from A to B. So long as that is all you expect then you won't be disappointed (unless you happen to be blind [:(!][:(!][:(!])

Basically Ryanair is an aerial bus service no more, no less

Originally posted by McCoy
Okay, three more thoughts to ponder in this thread...

1. Who think Stelios will sell his 40% stake in Easyjet before the end of 2006, and Easyjet will be subject to a take-over? (perhaps to Icelandair?)

2. Air France and KLM seem to have successfully merged... would national carrier of the UK merge with another European airline? (I don't think so!)

3. Ryanair.. how much longer for goodness sake????

Jim

1 - yes and then he'll do something to waste all his money
2. BA will buy AA when the current open skies agreement is concluded (or if it is to the mutal benefit of both contintents) - let's face it, if you were the strategy director of BA would you buy Iberia, any European carrier or AA?
3. Ryanair will wake up and smell the coffee and become just a n other European shot haul carrier with their own faults and benefits ... and their growth will stall.

Measure me on my predictions in 18 months time

Originally posted by slinky09
2. BA will buy AA when the current open skies agreement is concluded (or if it is to the mutal benefit of both contintents) - let's face it, if you were the strategy director of BA would you buy Iberia, any European carrier or AA?

Not unless the US change their laws about foriegn ownership of domestic airlines. That's one of the reasons Branson's Virgin America is slower than expected - finding the US money is difficult when the current model over there is sliding down the toilet into Chapter 11 left, right and centre.

Pete

Originally posted by honey lamb
..my comments about Ryanair were that it does what it says on the tin - gets you from A to B. So long as that is all you expect then you won't be disappointed (unless you happen to be blind [:(!][:(!][:(!])

Basically Ryanair is an aerial bus service no more, no less

But Ryan's performance is consistently atrocious, and failing to deliver on even the most basic of standards and humanity! Chucking off the blind folk is bizarre, embarrassing and downright offensive.*

I put Easyjet in the class you describe - get you there, with no frills. Cheap and cheerful. But that's the point.. "cheerful". If flying with Easy, I arrive in plenty of time to check-in, and queue in the right 1-30,31-60, etc queue. Smuggle my own sandwich on board. Ker-ching. Job done.
I had to stop watching 'Airline' cos I would start shouting at the telly everytime we saw the f***wits who were arriving at Luton 15 mins before departure, and bawling at the poor desk kids about being denied.


*conflict of interest - I'm an eye surgeon.

Hmm, can i throw another airline into the equation. After failing to start up this summer with an A310 (flying to MCO and TPA) under the name FlyBlu, they now want to start as a high quality lower cost carrier called FlyWho (http://www.flywho.com).
Hmm luxuary flights from B'ham international... doesnt add up
(I dotn mean to be offensive to anyone on here from brum btw)

Wow.. I hadn't seen that new site before..

"As CEO of this company I have had to deal with a lot of flack since making the tough decision to abandon the programme this summer."

..You don't say?!...

"With the worlds finest economy cabin and a very impressive economy plus cabin for those who want even more space and comfort, flywho is simply in a class of it's own!"

..Ummmmmmmmmm....
[:0]

hmm, its very easy to put together a nice little web-site with nice ideas - another thing completely to run a good airline.

A few inconsistences on the "flywho" web site - they claim 8 abreast seating in the Airbus - yet have a picture of 6 across seating [:I].

They also claim that some airlines seat 10 across in the Airbus - now I'm a bit of an anorak on these things - and I dont know any that do that....

Indeed.. I don't expect to see this one flying across the sky anytime soon.

On the subject of Air Scotland, apparently they're back on track, with a bit of a cash injection from owner Greece Airways.

kind of OT,but seeing as everyone is down at the pub[y],i've spent today on skytrax reading the reviews and to be honest it seems that everyone is going to choose another airline for their next flight in Y,so maybe,just maybe,if someone can come up with a product that beats the normal Y,yet still bring it to market at the same fare as say a VS or a BA fare maybe they might stand a chance.

Of course the one airline that comes to mind for doing just this is Jetblue.So maybe the time is right for this to happen,kind of in the same way that VS changed the trans atlanitc markey back in '84.

The Flywho idea is great,though from B'Ham,I just don't know,but it will be alone in the market so it could be a good idea..hower Maxjet if they could get the price down a touch could make a killing.

What this may do however is wake someone up at the "majors" and get them to improve both the Y and W products[y] which would be good for all.

Originally posted by jetwet1
What this may do however is wake someone up at the "majors" and get them to improve both the Y and W products[y] which would be good for all.

Are you sure you haven't been drinking also??