V-Flyer

My first trip report!

After a brief visit to San Francisco's small, but nicely appointed, clubhouse, boarding proceeded without incident, and I found myself comfortably seated upstairs on this 747-400.

The flight departed a few minutes late, and we all settled back for the 10-hour trip. I had boarded fairly early and so took a few minutes to look around the rest of the cabin, especially downstairs in economy to see what it's like (I'm new to Virgin). I must say this aircraft is in urgent need of refurbishment - esp considering that I hear that SFO-LHR is a profitable run for Virgin.

Anyway, the excitement began as we left the hold at Bobbington (north of LHR) and began our approach. Low clouds and a bumpy ride were predicted. During our final long approach over London at, I would guess, 4000 feet there was considerable light to moderate turbulence. As we approached LHR one could hear the engines spooling up often to keep up with the changes in airspeed.

At about 1000 feet, the engines pitch changed to full-power mode as we initiated a go-around, and a few minutes later the captain gave an informative announcement about possibly hazardous wind-shear, and that we were trying a 'different' runway.

20 minutes later, on the same approach path as far as I could tell, the exact same thing happened - we started our missed-approach. That was a first for me (in 25 years of flying, and excluding my own flight training) - two missed approaches in a row at a major airport! This time, the delay was longer, as the crew was obviously considering their alternatives. The decision was to fly to Gatwick and land.

So we were off to the south, and landed another 25 minutes later without incident. The weather was so nice -it was like we were in a different country! Another long wait on at the gate (with doors closed), as again they were deciding what to do. The captain then came on and said that after refueling we would be flying back to Heathrow where the weather had 'improved'. He also added, rather testily, that passengers should please refrain from 'having a go' at the flight attendants - apparently referring to passengers in economy demanding to be let off the plane.

Comment: It also crossed my mind that I would've liked to have been let off here at Gatwick too, but then I realised that they would have to terminate here for all passengers, since luggage couldn't be easily separated. This would seriously inconvenience the passengers who really wanted to get to Heathrow to get their connection, meet their families etc. It would have been nice for the captain to say something along these lines to diffuse things a bit IMHO.

Anyway, it took about an hour to get fueled and get a new clearance for LHR, and then we were off. Although only about 60 miles away - the flight took about 1/2 hour as we were threaded into the flow approaching LHR. Weather had improved slightly, and we made a bumpy approach, and landed.. 3 hours, 5 minutes late.

Despite the annoyances of the delay, and a bit unruly passengers (I was upstairs where it was quiet), I was impressed with the crew and the handling of the situation was good considering everyone was undoubtedly quite tired.

We were so interested in getting away that I neglected to find out which aircraft we were on, and hope someone can fill me in.

I wonder if I'll get miles and tier points for the LGW-LHR leg? :-)

Thanks for the trip report.

The 2 missed approaches sound like a nightmare, well done for being so calm about the situation.[y]

Although annoying these sorts of incidents can be quite interesting to look back on. I remember many years ago being on a VS flight from LAX and being diverted to Stanstead. Particularly interesting on take-off levelling out so low.

What was the date of your flight Casey - I'm sure someone can look up the a/c for you - although the delay alone should provide the information required.

Phil FM

Originally posted by FamilyMan

What was the date of your flight Casey - I'm sure someone can look up the a/c for you - although the delay alone should provide the information required.

Phil FM

Erm, in the title it says 27 Feb [:w]

Aircraft isnt up yet- normally 48 hour delay till the lhr-lgw movements site sorts itself out.

Yes, there were some very tricky conditions Wednesday morning - very heavy downpours of rain coupled with blustery changeable winds.

I wasn't at all surprised to read of your experience!

A fairly steady stream of Avro RJs and Fokker 50s were flying low over my house yesterday morning, heading South, and they only do that if they have been going around at London City too. One of the RJs seemed to be making a beeline for Biggin Hill (where, like Gatwick, the weather was better).

The holding place you speak of is Bovingdon (though it's frequently called Bovington and all manner of corruptions by foreign pilots). It's not far from Watford. There's a radio beacon on a disused airfield there, which is where you fly in circles.

Here's some pictures of what the Bovingdon beacon looks like - I used to work with the guy who took the pictures. He used to be a marketing manager at a company I worked for, before he went do to his ATPL (Airline Pilot) training.

Finally, windshear can be a problem when landing West at Heathrow, particularly on 27R. It's common to have Southwesterly winds, and when you're landing on 27R, there are the large hangars of the BA maintenance complex off to your left - upwind of you - as you just within the final stages of the approach.

What happens is that the winds are deflected off and around the hangars, which can generate windshear.

The usual thing if that happens enough - i.e. the windshear is bad enough to initiate go-arounds - is to swap the arriving and departing runways, so you land on 27L. You're still near the hangars, but the configuration of them is such that the windshear is less when landing 27L in windy and blustery conditions.

Mike

Hi Mike-

I guess I've just joined the ranks of those foreign pilots who mis-pronounce Bovingdon! :-) I've been hearing it for years on UA Channel 9 (as a passenger), and still get it wrong!

Interesting about the wind shear differences of runways with the same orientation. I was thinking of asking a friend of mine (retired B747 captain for United Airlines) what the procedural limits were, ie the amount that would call for an automatic go-around.

I also checked later and United flight 954 was supposed to land about the same time as VS20. Their flight was less than an hour late - I wonder if other flights simply stayed in the holding pattern for a while longer.

Scott

Wow - anyway your home safe and sound

...and here is a link to what you will find at Bovington. Spent many happy hours there as a kid pouring over the exhibits! Highly recommended. [y]

Thanks for your TR! You seemed to keep your cool very well! I think I would be of been very nervous! [:#]

Originally posted by casey0999
Interesting about the wind shear differences of runways with the same orientation. I was thinking of asking a friend of mine (retired B747 captain for United Airlines) what the procedural limits were, ie the amount that would call for an automatic go-around.

Well in that situation, if you suddenly get knocked off the approach profile in a bad enough way at a short enough final that there's no way you'll straighten up again to land, then you go around.

Otherwise, part of the safety equipment on all UA planes (and many other large carriers or modern aircraft) is a windshear detection system. If you are sat upstairs on the 744 and they have the flight deck door open while they do some of their pre-flight checks, you'll hear alarms and 'Windshear ahead! Windshear ahead!', as they test the system.

I also checked later and United flight 954 was supposed to land about the same time as VS20. Their flight was less than an hour late - I wonder if other flights simply stayed in the holding pattern for a while longer.

Are you sure about 954? I thought that didn't get wheels up until about 7pm, about 2 hours behind the VS20, these days? Unless they had a good run, of course.

The weather was changing so quickly on Wednesday morning, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they had better conditions, and indeed, they may have either chosen to sit it out in the hold, or they could have just been 'backed up' with lots of aircraft holding anyway, because they will drop the landing rate in these conditions to space things out a bit more.

I'm sure you'll have diverted because you had already had some holding, then two approaches and go-arounds. This probably left the crew approaching their minimum required fuel to land by the time they could get to Gatwick.

They will have worked this out after the first go-around (or even during holding at BNN), given the weather conditions and the likelihood of having another go-around, which then materialised.

Chances are they will have already told Heathrow Director that if they balked the second landing they would like to divert to Gatwick, before they began the second approach.

The crew would want to leave enough fuel to divert to the diversion airfield - Gatwick in this case, and land safely, with enough in reserve for a go-around at Gatwick as well (in case the runway was blocked or something bad).

There can be serious ramifications for a crew who land with below minimum fuel. Questions would definitely get asked!

Mike

Originally posted by Bazz
...and here is a link to what you will find at Bovington. Spent many happy hours there as a kid pouring over the exhibits! Highly recommended. [y]

I am now thoroughly confused -- is it BovingDON or BovingTON? Or are there both, and we're talking about two different towns.

Whatever the answer, between that post office and that tank museum, I know the two new sites I shall be visiting on my next trip to Blighty. [:w]

GJ

Two different Bovingdons! The beacon on the LHR approach is in Hertfordshire, the Tank Museum is in Dorset!

Is LGW-LHR the shortest flight anyone has ever made in a VS aircraft?

I remember a TR from Roxy-Popsy where she landed at Fort Lauderdale and then took off and flew to Miami!

Anyone got anything shorter?

Originally posted by MarkJ

Anyone got anything shorter?

I certainly would not admit it in public if I did...[:w]

GJ

Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes

Originally posted by MarkJ

Anyone got anything shorter?

I certainly would not admit it in public if I did...[:w]

GJ

Shorter than LGW-LHR is still very good in public - I think its about 30 miles[:w]

Originally posted by honey lamb

Originally posted by FamilyMan

What was the date of your flight Casey - I'm sure someone can look up the a/c for you - although the delay alone should provide the information required.

Phil FM

Erm, in the title it says 27 Feb [:w]

Sorry - I did check - sure it wasn't there originally [:#]

Phil FM

Really enjoyed the TR, it sounds quite exhilarating?

Was there any hysteria on board?

Glad your all safe and well.

Good TR, Thank you. [:)]

Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
I am now thoroughly confused -- is it BovingDON or BovingTON? Or are there both, and we're talking about two different towns.

Whatever the answer, between that post office and that tank museum, I know the two new sites I shall be visiting on my next trip to Blighty.

Tank Museum = BovingTON

VOR = BovingDON

[:)]

The disused Bovingdon Airfield was also where they filmed that BBC One ident which looked like a load of people dancing at a rave. (Talking of BBC idents, just what are those synchronised swimming hippos about?)

Mike

Originally posted by willd
Aircraft isnt up yet- normally 48 hour delay till the lhr-lgw movements site sorts itself out.

A/c was G-VFAB.

Strange, for 27 Feb, says G-VWIN on the 'which aircraft' calendar posted. (assuming they list by departure date). This can't be right, since it was a 747 for sure! (maybe I'm reading these incorrectly)