V-Flyer

Bloody hell, not much pressure on this one then... Seriously, I had been checking TRs all week in the hope that someone else might have posted the first review of the new UC 'dream suite', but nope, it falls to me. Ooooh, the tension, the suspense... 

And that's why I ended up writing it from the limo heading back home. No time like the present - and bear in mind that this is meant as a fairly analytical compare-and-contrast report, so rather more detail than I'd normally throw in.

Alright, a bit of back story. My trips to JFK are fairly frequent, every 2-3 months as a result of working for a US bank. For the last couple of years, I've been allowed to use Virgin, which was a great relief after the fun of United and American flights with a previous employer. So I've had quite a few experiences of UC on this route. And therefore I was initially puzzled when I booked this trip and clicked on the seat map for the return leg, only to se an unfamiliar 1-2-1 configuration. At that point I woke up to the discussions going on around the new UCS and realised that I was on one of the new A330s. Woo-Hoo.

So... The outbound was a decent enough flight, only really memorable for the abysmal weather coming into JFK on the Sunday night. Oh, and the malbec that ran out almost immediately. And it seemed like everyone EXCEPT me got a name check - was the flight full of UNIQs I wonder? But enough of my pet gripe.

The week itself was the usual round of meetings, a few very memorable moments, but sadly not ones that I can dwell on here. What goes on in New York, stays in New York.

The limo from my hotel was driven by a grizzled old veteran, who made a particularly egregious pitch for a large tip by bitching for 10 minutes about how VS will only pay his company 75% of the normal rate for airport transfers, but it was ok because his regulars 'took care of him'... Pity I only had 15 dollars left on me really...

Anyway, who cares, this is all filler for the main event, right? But before we get there, an honourable mention for the new CH at JFK. Very impressive IMHO... More room and less formality than the old one. Airside, and right next to the gate, so couldn't be better placed. Decent food, albeit with a touch of US idiosyncrasy, very airy with dual aspect windows, large bar, range of seating options. And the 'kitchen table' pudding is very entertaining. I can only assume that someone started out with the thought 'how can I work blue Space Dust into a pudding'... if you haven't tried it, I suggest you do so next time.

So... Our flight is called, and I have the luxury of not rushing because I don't have to second guess how long it will take to get to the gate. But out of sheer curiosity, I get on board fairly early to take a look at what VS have done here. 

As you enter the aircraft, the first thing to hit you is the bar. Almost literally in fact because of its new diagonal position that faces towards the door. Clearly there to make a statement, although if you were in PE or Y, you might feel that it was rubbing salt into the wound just a little bit. Nice bar anyway, and I'll make the point up front that this is the single biggest improvement to UC as far as I'm concerned.

I was in 7A, so 3 down from the door. My first impression... Smaller than the old UCS.  The ottomans are much more wedge shaped and cut off very sharply, also there's not much cubby hole room underneath for shoes. Sitting down, it does definitely feel as though my arms push against the sides walls more than they used to. The aisle is certainly narrower, but then that's already a known fact.

The little drinks table is further forward than before, and there is no annoying reading light in that space, so a definite improvement there. As far as the lighting goes, there is now both a traditional style overhead one, and one on a flexible cord that comes out of the top of where the TV screen is positioned. Interesting that there are 2 overhead lights but only one of them works - given this is a new plane, you wonder why an unused light would have been installed in the first place.

The armrest on the left is now a flip down thing, and when down it makes it very awkward getting anything in or out of the side pocket. Headphones are now stored in a separate side pocket under the ottoman.

The seat itself... Well I had heard that it was supposed to recline more than the old one. That's not what I experienced - in fact I'd have said it was slightly less, hmmm. Comfortable enough, similar level of firmness as before, with adjustable lumbar support. The actual reclining mechanism was a bit of an issue though - I think the space behind, where the pillow/duvet is stored is a lot smaller than before, and the rolled up duvet was clearly blocking the seat from being able to move properly. Whether I tried making it go up or down, it would simply whine, move a tiny bit, and then go back to where it was. When I took the duvet out, it seemed to work ok, but then the question has to be asked, did no one spot this as a design problem?? Or were they too busy fulfilling their prime objective of squeezing more passengers into a smaller space...

The IFE - not really able to comment in detail on this as I barely used it. But it was touch screen, presumably JAM, although I didn't see it mentioned anywhere? Good quality screen and resolution in menu mode, but definitely not HD quality when playing (I took a quick look at that 'Boss' series starring Kelsey Grammer, and there was a lot of pixelation going on), obviously free of scratches or other wear and tear. But it seemed incapable of recognising my iPad when I connected via USB. Maybe it's not part of the offering, but it was saying that you could connect iPods, so not sure I see why there should be a difference.

Another niggle, the unit that the screen fits into juts out an inch or so at about the point where the drinks able is positioned. Given that it's not a very wide space, my left knee kept catching against the corner, and I really think it needed to be more flush with the rest of the side wall.

Back to the subject of the ottoman... And this really is where things start to go downhill...

It's certainly smaller than before. Pretty much triangular, and I suspect that it would not be a comfortable option for anyone sitting there for any length of time. The back support is almost non-existent, and it's hard to see how anyone of a reasonable height could comfortably stretch their legs on it without the right one hanging off and poking out into the aisle. The seat itself lifts up to reveal a shallow storage area underneath, with the helpful words 'no stowage' inscribed. Ok, I give up, what exactly is the point of that then?

No seatbelt fitted yet, as I had previously seen mentioned on here. The storage underneath is also smaller as you'd expect, and my shoes poked out quite a bit.

And finally, saving the worst for last, the glass screen that makes up about half of the divider between suites. Although on the right hand side, it really takes up the whole area you can see when sitting in full recline.

Opaque... Was that the word that VS used? Really? No it's not, it's embarrassingly far from opaque. It's not even close to translucent. Note to marketing department - buy a bloody dictionary. And then beat yourselves around the head with it for telling such an outrageous porkie.

So, from where I'm sitting, I have a clear view of 6As legs (sadly not ones that I would dwell on...), all of 4-6D, and 7D through my own right hand side window. Yes, it's a 'window' and not a 'screen', just in case I was not clear on that point. This truly is the worst part of the redesign, and ironically it may make 9A/K relatively attractive seats because they have high barriers to one side. 9K might be my pick next time as it's behind the bar and if you were sitting there having a drink, all you can really see of that seat is the ottoman. Both the A and K seats would get some glare from the bar lighting, but it did get turned down later in the flight.

The bar stools are also smaller than before, but comfortable enough. The bar itself looks a bit longer, but difficult to tell without a tape measure. Drinks are stored in a cubby area behind 9K.  The only drawback I saw was that the left hand stool is compromised by the baskets of fruit/nibbles and wine bucket that is placed there - you'd struggle to find space for more than a drink, eating would be out of the question.

The cabin crew themselves were very efficient, friendly, and addressing people by name (can't remember the last time that happened) - possibly an element of trying to make a good impression on a new aircraft. But it was still very welcome. I didn't have much food as I'd eaten in the CH, but I sat at the bar and had a bit of cheese, just to test it out. Better offering than normal coming out of the US.

It was a fairly long flight - nearly 7 hours, so I decided to try and get a bit of sleep. Onto the bed then... Still a flip over mechanism, although it's now more manual, you have to pull it over and lock it into place. Many including myself have criticised the old product for being too hard to sleep easily enough on (in my case, I'm just a bad sleeper anyway, but have to agree that it was hard). The new bed is definitely a bit softer. Same style mattress pad, pillow and duvet as before. And now the key question, what was the width like at the shoulders. Well, not great. Lying flat on my back it was rather like sitting down, with my shoulders a bit squashed against the sides. As I've said before, I'm not a small person, but it was disappointing. I'd also contest the claims about bed length - it might be technically true from one corner point to another, but in terms of practically useable space, I'd say it's about the same as before.

Just to complete things, breakfast was fine - they also did a take away juice and bagel run just before landing. One real irritant is the animation they play over and over to advertise their IFE - must have looped a good 15 times before someone had the sense to switch it off. It was the same on the outbound flight. We landed at a very wet Heathrow, on time, and I was the 1st off the plane. No queues at passport control and bags through very efficiently.

So, to sum up, whilst this is clearly a shiny new plane with everything in good working order, I am very disappointed with the hard product. It's cramped, poorly designed, and screams to me the fact that increased revenue through densification of passengers was the priority here. There are some minor improvements such as the glass holder, IFE, etc. and I do rather like the bar. But it pains me greatly to say that VS have taken a significant step backwards here. Give me the A zone on a noisy and battered old 744 any day over this.

I'll try and add some pictures later if I can figure out how to do it!

RC

Thanks for the trip report & interesting comments on the new UCDS. It has to be said, I am a little less keen to fly on an aircraft with it fitted after reading your comments.

Most of my trips are to MCO, so I agree with your last comment, i.e. give me the old UCS in the A zone on a 747 (especially on a refitted LGW/MAN aircraft so we finally get decent IFE).

Thanks for the TR...no pressure as the first to report!!

Seems to fit as expected, the whole spin of the length using a tape measure crammed in both pointy corners...

Are you comparing the width to a 346 or 747 old style suite, as some discussion on here that the latter were wider? Surely the new marketing spins out the issue of extra width..? (is there a little bit that extends out that they've used.. )

NH

Top Marks for posting this TR in record time and providing urgently sought info for V Flyers.

From your Report, the use of the phrase Top Marks is not appropriate for this new product another VS PR own goal???

Thanks once again

buns

An exceptionally timely, detailed, informative and honest TR, thanks for putting us all out of our misery

I was really looking forward to see if VS had actually come up with the goods with their new UCDS but it seems, in your opinion, they have missed the mark again

It oes sound like they have made vast improvements to the JFK CH, though which is positive

Thanks again!

Thanks for the detailed TR, sounds like the new suite is a bit of a disappointment and another case of over promising and under delivering!

Trevski220 wrote:Thanks for the detailed TR, sounds like the new suite is a bit of a disappointment and another case of over promising and under delivering!

Despite all the hype, yet again VS are unveiled as being "fur coat and no knickers". The complete lack of privacy caused by the (non) opaque screen is a huge faux pas IMHO. Denser cabin (ie more passengers), smaller ottoman (I can barely get my handbag under the current one as it is)...oh dear . I'll be avoiding at all costs.
DL

Oh dear, I find the current UC suite cramped enough, especially the A346 version, also finding that there is simply not enough shoulder room to get comfortable.

When you say narrower, are you comparing to the A346 or 747 version (as someone else has asked), because if it's any narrower, even by a fraction than the A346 suites, it's not looking good that I could get at all comfortable.

The viewing windows also sound like a major mistake...

Well, there will be other reports shortly, I dont doubt, but your very quick report doesn't bode well...

DragonLady wrote:

Trevski220 wrote:Thanks for the detailed TR, sounds like the new suite is a bit of a disappointment and another case of over promising and under delivering!

Despite all the hype, yet again VS are unveiled as being "fur coat and no knickers". The complete lack of privacy caused by the (non) opaque screen is a huge faux pas IMHO. Denser cabin (ie more passengers), smaller ottoman (I can barely get my handbag under the current one as it is)...oh dear . I'll be avoiding at all costs.
DL

I have to take the smallest handbag possible and like you, I have the same issue with it sticking out. And judging from the pictures, there's no overhead storage over the centre aisles . So let's calculate this, more pax, same cabin baggage allowance and less storage space. Recipe for disaster

Have the wardrobe options also been cut back?

Great report, I don't know how wide the new caBin is compared to a 346 but I did wonder how you could change from 3 abreast to 4 without cutting back on some space. Personally there's no better place than the nose of a 747 and as far as being disappointed isn't this just a further dilution of the UC product (thinking of amenity kits cowshed charges etc) over the last ten years. Having said that aren all the airlines trimming where possible.I flew Emirates First class to DXB recentlywith new private suite and IFS. was appalling

Thank you for the TR, it pretty much confirmed expectations (I'll try it in three weeks) that the cabin is nice, new, and cramped. I am concerned about a few touches, such as the seats near the bar, and noise from the drinks cabinet for seat is it 9K? But it seems the reduced shoulder width in bed mode is going to be key - and I note that Paul still hasn't got answer from VS on Facebook on this.

Spanishvirgin wrote:Great report, I don't know how wide the new caBin is compared to a 346 but I did wonder how you could change from 3 abreast to 4 without cutting back on some space. Personally there's no better place than the nose of a 747 and as far as being disappointed isn't this just a further dilution of the UC product (thinking of amenity kits cowshed charges etc) over the last ten years. Having said that aren all the airlines trimming where possible.I flew Emirates First class to DXB recentlywith new private suite and IFS. was appalling

The A333 and A346 are exactly the same in cabin width, they share the same fuselage design. No where really beats the space in the nose of a 747, I wonder if we'll ever see UCDS there, if not and big if VS keep the cabin in a good state, I'll be aiming for 747 trips herein,

Hi Ratechaser,
Thank you for your detailed review having seen the actual product!
My heart sank when I saw the promotional video/cabin tour and am disappointed that the reality hasn't proven to be any better, much of which you seem to have confirmed. I posted the following concerns in another thread, and the only one not confirmed by yourself is the window view.

My post was:

"Personally I'm glad that the 747s are not getting this new "improved" product. From the interactive tour, I much prefer the current version, so I think it's not a case of losing out.

Of course I accept that the real thing may be much better than it appears on the interactive tour, but:

1. It looks like nearly all of the window seats will have virtually no view through a window.

2.On the tour I can see straight through the new "opaque" window. No chance of changing into my sleep-suit without the rest of the cabin getting a good view!

3. The seat looks nice and comfy, but you still have to get out of it to make it into a bed. And the shoulder area looks mightily cramped compared to the old ones.

4. The ottomans look like they have practically disappeared, just a ledge to put your feet on and to support the end of the bed.

I am a huge Virgin Atlantic fan and think the cabin crew and service are fantastic, but I am at a loss to see how this is an improved product? I honestly dread the day the 747s are taken out of service from MAN.

Would be interested to know about the windows if you noted this ratechaser? Maybe if anyone hasn't experienced the old UCS on a 747, it will seem lovely, but I think I will stick to my beloved 747s if at all possible.

Great TR and like others have said it does seem from your very detailed description that the UCDS will be an overall disappointment to other passengers as well. No increase in recline, less width, smaller ottoman, lack of privacy and less space to store my handbag and shoes? I appreciate the bar is improved and was glad the bed appears softer, but taking all the changes into account it doesn't sound like a dream design to me?

Thanks for the TR, I wonder how the 50% increase has been measured?

Remember with the new livery, the Union Flag that the Scarlet Lady is holding was advertised as 33% larger. But in the real world it was smaller, so was the Scarlet Lady, the 33% larger figure was gained by the proportion between the Scarlet Lady and the flag. Not the physical dimensions.

Can see Greg and his team getting facebook posts that will sit in that too tricky to answer pile, which must be gaining some size now..

oh dear another poor review for the 330. long live the 747

I hope it doesn't get to the point where I ask myself "why pay $4,500 for J when I can pay $2,000 for K and wangle an exit row seat?" With any luck, the 346s will stay on the LOS route for a while.

Lets see a few more trip reports before we all pass judgement.

More seats are in the cabin due to the way the seats are now positioned in the centre of the cabin.

Its a definite better use of space. think its called fish tailing.

Everyone hates change and thats a fact. I think people will like it once they get used to it.

declansmith wrote:Its a definite better use of space. think its called fish tailing.

Everyone hates change and thats a fact. I think people will like it once they get used to it.

It's a better use of space for the airline (ie it generates more money). Sorry, for me, more passengers in the same space isn't something to like . More crowded cabin, longer waits to be served, longer waits for the loos..... As Tinuks has asked, will pax be happy to fork out the extra over W for this ? I'm not sure I will to be perfectly honest.
I'm quite happy to be proved wrong, but I think (in Mystic Meg fashion) that there will be more pax unhappy than happy with the new cabin.
Some of the changes are just plain daft- clear screens (because despite the spin they're NOT opaque)??? Whoever on the design came up with that idea needs to be shot .
DL

DragonLady wrote:

Trevski220 wrote:Thanks for the detailed TR, sounds like the new suite is a bit of a disappointment and another case of over promising and under delivering!

Despite all the hype, yet again VS are unveiled as being "fur coat and no knickers".

what hype? Just a week ago folks on here were complaining that VS hadn't done some huge ad campaign. I'm afraid the only hype I saw was the (over)anticipation and speculation on here.

DragonLady wrote:Some of the changes are just plain daft- clear screens (because despite the spin they're NOT opaque)??? Whoever on the design came up with that idea needs to be shot .
DL

But surely that is personal opinion? I'm a miserable git and I like the cut off/private feeling in the current UCS, on the other hand my mum hates it, and when she saw the new glass screen, she thinks it is a much better - the old saying that you will never please all the people all the time will again be true here.

Well, as I posted previously, we probably need a few more TRs to better take the temporature.

Whatever folks likes/dislikes regarding clear/opaic screens etc, if the actual space has changed, that will be the biggest factor for me.

Neil wrote:

DragonLady wrote:Some of the changes are just plain daft- clear screens (because despite the spin they're NOT opaque)??? Whoever on the design came up with that idea needs to be shot .
DL

But surely that is personal opinion? I'm a miserable git and I like the cut off/private feeling in the current UCS, on the other hand my mum hates it, and when she saw the new glass screen, she thinks it is a much better - the old saying that you will never please all the people all the time will again be true here.

Well obviously that's DL's personal opinion, as are all the opinions on here.

I don't like it when sometimes on here, and frequently on FB, people disagree with others opinions, instead of saying they disagree, they say the other person is wrong.
I'm not saying that is happening now, but I don't want it to become a thread of "I'm right, your wrong"

As Neil has pointed out, different people will react differently to the changes.

Personally, yes it still is a good product, some things have improved from the old UCS, and some things have gotten worse. So I will more vocally express my dislike for VS creating an "improved" product, yet some areas getting worse.

Couple of questions...
Once you removed the duvet, were you able to recline up to 50% more than the previous suite?
Also, on the technology hub, there's a switch from USB to iPod that clearly indicates which plugs you need to use. Did you follow that guide when plugging in your iPhone?
From my understanding, the width of the bed at the shoulders is bigger than the A340-600, but a little smaller than the 747, which isn't bad for a smaller aircraft.