O2 wins battle for iPhone contracts in UK

[Darren Wheeler]

Since when does logic come in to phones [:D]

Oh, and for the uninitiated ARPU = Average Revenue Per User.

Read in the paper today that o2 have announced that growth of customers on PAYG plans is lower than the same period as last years. I don't have any figures/sources of reference, but thought I'd add this to the PAYG talk.

Originally posted by avalon
So is it ok to buy one in the States, and get it unlocked and use it here on any network?

If you get it unlocked and don't update the firmware then yes it is fine.

There are quite a few unlocked iphones here right now. I'm having a go at a UK one on Friday.

Some solutions are future proof, including updates. We proved this with a 1.0.2 phone with a TurboSim going to 1.1.1 .

I've had mine a few days and I absolutely love it! [:)]

[Pete]

Well, I now have mine, and it's an absolute joy to use.

The setup was a breeze - the only delay was getting Orange to part with a PAC code so I could transfer my number (with a little pressure, they'll text it to you, rather than having to wait for it to arrive in the post - which seems like such an obvious delay tactic).

Pete

[preiffer]

Beginning of the end for O2?

We already know about the French ruling, but there's just been a brand new one in Germany - genuine (legit) unlocked iPhones are now on sale and previous customers can now have theirs unlocked. (Seems even the mighty Apple has to give in when it comes to the law)...

Link to story 1
Link to story on Bloomberg


SO... How long before Vodafone go for O2 in the UK [}:)][:w]

The German price for unlocked phones is 999 Euros, which makes it very expensive ! The French price I do not think has been released.

[mitchja]

Û999 (~£715) is still less than the total you would pay for the O2 handset and 18 months subscription (18 x £35 + £269 = £899).

Although I agree, this is still way too expensive for a mobile phone.

Regards

[Pete]

Well, that price is set intentionally high to make the contracted version look more attractive (and any phone you buy out of contract is pricey - the N95, for instance, is over 600 quid on Expansys without a contract) - and as James says, it's still cheaper than the initial cost + the minimum contract, so if you *really* want to use an iPhone on Vodaphone, you could buy the unlocked German model and use it anywhere. The point is, why would you want to? You won't get the unlimited data deal (very useful for a phone like the iPhone), and Visual Voicemail won't be supported (one of the best unique features of the iPhone).

I don't think this is the end for the iPhone at all, just a concession to local European legislation. It won't make much material difference to iPhone sales through the channels they were intended to go through.

Pete

[Darren Wheeler]

Originally posted by preiffer
Beginning of the end for O2?

We already know about the French ruling, but there's just been a brand new one in Germany - genuine (legit) unlocked iPhones are now on sale and previous customers can now have theirs unlocked. (Seems even the mighty Apple has to give in when it comes to the law)...

Link to story 1
Link to story on Bloomberg


SO... How long before Vodafone go for O2 in the UK [}:)][:w]

My info is that it won't happen as there is no legislation in the UK to prevent the locking to a single network. Customer Services have been told that if they get any calls regarding the iphone, they cannot assist with handset issues, call quality etc.

What you will see is the likes of Nokia, Motorola etc etc. signing exclusive deals with networks for some handsets. Also, in 6 months or so, look out for all the iPhone clones popping up.

Still happy with my N95

I've had my iPhone for 10 days now, I've had a P910 for 2 years, a P900 before that, I've also had Palms, Treos and Blackberrys. In one way or another the iPhone out shines all of them when it comes to just using it and doing what it is supposed to do.

I never got my P910 to collect email even though I had my P900 doing it with the same SIM on the same network, the iPhone configured itself and worked within 10 minutes of coming out of the box.

Is the iPhone perfect - no, do other devices have better specs - yes. Its not unlike the MP3 player argument, the Zune has a bigger screen, the iRiver records, the Zen is cheaper, the iPod has an 80%+ market share and if you don't know why its because you haven't used the others.

Here is a simple comparison:


iPhone/O2

Cost of Phone - £269
Monthly Subscription - £35
Minutes - 200
SMS Text Messages - 200
Data - Unlimited
Wi-Fi Hot Spots - 7500
Visual Voicemail - YES
Contract - 18 months


N95/Vodafone

Cost of Phone - £0
Monthly Subscription - £35
Minutes - 200
SMS Text Messages - 250
Data - 120MB per month
Wi-Fi Hot Spots - 0
Visual Voicemail - NO
Contract - 18 months

I think that unlimited data and the 7500 hotspots if a fair trade for 50 text messages.

I'm happy to shell out £269 for something that really works and is a pleasure to use, would I like a free one - sure but then I'd also like a free Lamborghini.


Tony

Originally posted by Pete
I don't think this is the end for the iPhone at all, just a concession to local European legislation. It won't make much material difference to iPhone sales through the channels they were intended to go through.

Think the talk is referring to the end of o2.

Was in Manchester the other day and I walked past a small, independent electronics shop (the sort that sells refurb PCs, games and electronics at a general low price) and noticed a sign outside saying that they now unlock iPhones.

Apple can do all they like to make sure people use o2 (and fund Steve Jobs' already-huge pension fund) but the fact is people will unlock iPhones and Apple will no doubt lose any battle in this country to prevent this from happening.

[Pete]

Originally posted by VS075

Think the talk is referring to the end of o2.

Was in Manchester the other day and I walked past a small, independent electronics shop (the sort that sells refurb PCs, games and electronics at a general low price) and noticed a sign outside saying that they now unlock iPhones.

Apple can do all they like to make sure people use o2 (and fund Steve Jobs' already-huge pension fund) but the fact is people will unlock iPhones and Apple will no doubt lose any battle in this country to prevent this from happening.

But the question still remains 'why bother?'

There isn't a tariff out there that can match the unlimited data, free (Cloud) WiFi access and support for Visual Voicemail. Why on earth would you want to cut your ties with the manufacturer (and in the case of iPhone, software updates means more features) and pay more to get a similar tariff that can't actually support all the features of the phone elsewhere. It seems like an exercise in futility to me.

Originally posted by Pete
There isn't a tariff out there that can match the unlimited data, free (Cloud) WiFi access and support for Visual Voicemail. Why on earth would you want to cut your ties with the manufacturer (and in the case of iPhone, software updates means more features) and pay more to get a similar tariff that can't actually support all the features of the phone elsewhere. It seems like an exercise in futility to me.

It may seem so, but the fact is though a lot of people are more interested in the amount of minutes and texts per month they get over anything. At the end of the day isn't that the main reason why people get particular mobile phones and commit to particular contracts?

The free Wi-Fi access is only ever good if you're in a hot-spot, the Visual Voicemail is something very new so not as popular. Can't really comment on the unlimited data, but I'm curious as to whether that's subject to a fair usage policy.

If it means unlocking the iPhone to do this then so be it. To be honest even the £35 a month deal that is being offered in terms in minutes and texts on offer isn't necessarily the best deal going for the money, and don't forget there are people who may use other networks through their companies who want to use an iPhone with the company SIM card.

[Pete]

Originally posted by VS075

It may seem so, but the fact is though a lot of people are more interested in the amount of minutes and texts per month they get over anything. At the end of the day isn't that the main reason why people get particular mobile phones and commit to particular contracts?

The free Wi-Fi access is only ever good if you're in a hot-spot, the Visual Voicemail is something very new so not as popular. Can't really comment on the unlimited data, but I'm curious as to whether that's subject to a fair usage policy.

If it means unlocking the iPhone to do this then so be it. To be honest even the £35 a month deal that is being offered in terms in minutes and texts on offer isn't necessarily the best deal going for the money, and don't forget there are people who may use other networks through their companies who want to use an iPhone with the company SIM card.

TBH, if you're not interested in Visual Voicemail, WiFi access and unlimited data, then the iPhone is probably not a phone that is going to be much interest to you either.

I now have an iPhone, and it's far better than my P990. Without unlimited data, WiFi or visual voicemail, it would be neutered. Don't underestimate features such as visual voicemail; it's only when you start using those sorts of features that old linear methods of having to go through every message to get to the one you want seems positively archaic. To suggest the only deciding factor for a choice of phone is the number of minutes and texts you're getting is totally missing the point of a device like the iPhone, which is so much more than just a phone. If that is your deciding factor, then you'd be a fool to pay a premium for an unlocked iPhone when a bog-standard handset will be able to do all you need.

So the point remains - yes you can unlock an iPhone; but to do so would be pointless, as only O2 currently supports its features and offers an affordable plan to get the best out of it.

[mitchja]

The reason why I would want to have an unlocked iPhone has nothing to do with what the handsets offers. It's very simple, I dont want to be an O2 customer.

So why, if I buy an iPhone, are Apple forcing me to be an O2 customer [:?]

Also there's simply no such thing as unlimited data transfer in this day and age.

Regards

[Pete]

Originally posted by mitchja
The reason why I would want to have an unlocked iPhone has nothing to do with what the handsets offers. It's very simple, I dont want to be an O2 customer.

So why, if I buy an iPhone, are Apple forcing me to be an O2 customer [:?]

Also there's simply no such thing as unlimited data transfer in this day and age.

Regards

Only O2 support Visual Voicemail, and the only thing close to an unlimited data transfer plan is the iPhone tariff from O2. (T-Mobile also offer an unlimited plan, but they don't support the Edge network the iPhone users - more info below).

I too would have preferred to have stuck with Orange, but even with an unlocked phone, they don't support the iPhone features. At the moment, if you want an iPhone, O2 are the only network that supports it.

The only way Apple is able to get any carrier to produce a plan that suits the phone they've built is to create an exclusive deal for them to make it worthwhile. If Apple hadn't offered an exclusive deal to a carrier, I doubt very much they'd be a £35 tariff supporting Visual Voicemail, unlimited data or the Cloud free WiFi offering. In order to change the paradigm, Apple need to change the plan carriers offer - and they can only do that with a certain amount of exclusivity.

You say you want an iPhone but you don't want to be on O2. So what are the alternatives. None of the others will support Visual Voicemail, as I'm sure you'll understand, but what will it cost you for a similar voice / text / data plan to the O2 deal?

O2, for the basic £35 deal, offers 200 mins, 200 texts, unlimited data and The Cloud WiFi access included. O2 don't specify an upper limit for an Acceptable Usage of data, but industry experts believe it to be around 1GB per month.

On Vodafone, a close match is the £25 personal plan for 225 mins & 250 texts. Add onto that the £7.50 per month for a healthy 120MB of data, and it's not a bad deal for £32.50. Of course you'll also have to add £6.99 for The Cloud per month to really match O2's iPhone deal, but £39.49 ain't bad or too much more than O2. Only about a tenth of the data (vital for iPhone users), and no Visual Voicemail or Edge support, but not too bad.

On Orange's 18 month plans, there really isn't a direct equivalent. However, for the sake of example, let's use the Dolphin £25-per month for 150 mins and 300 texts. I am/was a customer of Orange, and even I'm not sure of the data charges, but I was being charged about £1 per 1/3rd MB. Erm - this looks like a non-starter already, even without the Cloud access.

T-Mobile's plan is probably the best for an unlocked iPhone. Flext 20 + web & walk gives you unlimited data (subject to a 1GB fair usage plan), and £34 worth of 'credit' to spend on calls and texts, which buys you around 170 minutes and 340 texts for £27.50. With the Cloud for another £6.99, you're at £35.49 - so pretty close to the O2 iPhone tariff. All you're missing is the Visual Voicemail, so not bad at all. Unfortunately T-Mobile doesn't support Edge though, which will be a bit of a drawback for data.

But again, I wonder, why bother? The O2 plan is a good deal compared to the market rate, and their network specifically supports the phone and its features unlike any of the other carriers. I would have like to have stayed loyal to Orange, but I wanted the phone more than I wanted the network.

[Darren Wheeler]

vodafone doesn't have Edge. We use HSDPA to provide near-broadband speeds to certain handsets (N95 being one) and when on full song is really fast.

[Pete]

Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
vodafone doesn't have Edge. We use HSDPA to provide near-broadband speeds to certain handsets (N95 being one) and when on full song is really fast.

Yup, and iPhone doesn't have HSDPA. So an unlocked iPhone on Vodafone isn't a match made in heaven.

[Darren Wheeler]

Indeed, and as well as the 40% of revenue, one of the main reasons vf walked away.

[mitchja]

You say you want an iPhone but you don't want to be on O2. So what are the alternatives. None of the others will support Visual Voicemail, as I'm sure you'll understand, but what will it cost you for a similar voice / text / data plan to the O2 deal?

That's my whole point as I dont want that sort of call/text plan as am sure many other people dont want either.

I would buy an unlocked iPhone and stick in my V Mobile SIM. All I then pay for is any call charges/texts/data I actually use every month and nothing more (unlike a monthly contract plan where you pay for the call/texts even if you dont use it all and it's not carried forward every month)

With my V Mobile call plan there's no contract and no monthly charges to pay for. I just pay via direct debit every month for the previous months calls/texts I've used. It's sort of like PAYG but I pay for it after I've used it rather than before as you would with PAYG.

I do also have the option to buy credit via the normal PAYG route should I need to, so I can put my account in credit in advance (which is useful, for example, before I travel so I dont get a stonking bill with roaming charges when I get back).

Regards

[Pete]

But James, if you were to go down that route, the bill you would be faced with on a PAYG data rate would be just that 'stonking bill' you're trying to avoid, as the iPhone is a beast which likes to talk to the internet. Without that kind of connectivity, it's a bit neutered, so the O2 deal really is the best possible option to get the best out of it.

It's a bit like buying a top of the range Gaggia coffee machine, but saving money by using the absolute cheapest Tesco white-label coffee in it. False economy.

[preiffer]

Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
vodafone doesn't have Edge. We use HSDPA to provide near-broadband speeds to certain handsets (N95 being one) and when on full song is really fast.

Umm... Vodafone DOES have EDGE. I'm looking at my Blackberry right now, it displays gprs, GPRS, and EDGE. Currently, I'm in an EDGE area on the Vodafone network...


...oh, and has done for at least a year (confirmed by our corporate account manager many months ago [;)])

[Pete]

Originally posted by preiffer

Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
vodafone doesn't have Edge. We use HSDPA to provide near-broadband speeds to certain handsets (N95 being one) and when on full song is really fast.

Umm... Vodafone DOES have EDGE. I'm looking at my Blackberry right now, it displays gprs, GPRS, and EDGE. Currently, I'm in an EDGE area on the Vodafone network...


...oh, and has done for at least a year (confirmed by our corporate account manager many months ago [;)])

Well you learn (as they say) summink new every day.

Not that I have any reason to doubt you, but I couldn't find any reference to EDGE support on Vodafone's website, and it's noticeably absent in the Wikipedia page on the subject.

I knew Orange did it, and O2 specifically to support the iPhone. Interesting to see Wiki claims T-Mobile offer it, and if Vodafone do too, then it sounds like EDGE has pretty good coverage in the UK, contrary to the reports by some journos citing it as a reason for doom and gloom facing Apple's phone in the UK.

Regardless of this new nugget, I was speaking to a fellow iPhone owner tonight, and the conclusion we have both arrived at is that the device is only 10% phone, and focusing too much on how you might be able get a better package of minutes or texts from an alternative carrier is really underestimating the other 90% of the product. In fact, I've been using the thing (almost) constantly for the past couple of days, and in all that time I've only actually made two calls.

Pete

[Darren Wheeler]

Originally posted by preiffer

Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
vodafone doesn't have Edge. We use HSDPA to provide near-broadband speeds to certain handsets (N95 being one) and when on full song is really fast.

Umm... Vodafone DOES have EDGE. I'm looking at my Blackberry right now, it displays gprs, GPRS, and EDGE. Currently, I'm in an EDGE area on the Vodafone network...


...oh, and has done for at least a year (confirmed by our corporate account manager many months ago [;)])

First I've Bl&%$y heard of it!! And I monitor the packet network. Will dig more in this in the week.