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#835287 by Pete
18 Jan 2013, 18:33
The new domestic routes throw up some interesting figures if you're looking for the best way to top up your mileage balance, or need a few extra tier points to earn/retain gold status.

Firstly, the figures surprised me that the new domestic routes aren't always the best miles earners - but the are by far the best method of collecting tier points.

Using the data from fare watch as the source of the cheapest prices on each route in each cabin, it seems you can be paying anywhere between roughly 7p and 21p per mile earnt, and from £60 to £532 per tier point. Admittedly some of those extremes seem to be due to a lack of availability artificially raising the price and the average cost per mile actually appears to be about 12p in Economy & PE, and about 15p in Upper. Tier points are about £130 in Economy and about £230 in PE & Upper.

The best deal for miles is curiously is LHR-SFO in Premium on current pricing. For a £936 return in PE you'll earn 13396 miles, or a cost of 7p per mile. The domestic routes LHR-MAN & LHR-EDI are averaging about 8.8p per mile on the currently available pricing, but when I bought my seat for the MAN inaugural at just £50.55, that works out at 6.7p per mile, just undercutting the SFO route.

Tier points wise, the new domestic route all earn 1 TP each way, so my MAN ticket at £50.55 equates to a cost of £50.55 per tier point - compare that to to a stonking price on the Dubai route of £398 in the current sale earning 4 TP, but giving a pretty poor £99.50 per tier point in comparison.

So what drops out of this is that the domestic routes, particularly MAN & EDI are the new tier point run routes. Remember when that was the SIN-KUL route? Only problem was you'd need to either be out there already or stump up the cost of getting to Singapore first. Same is true of the $69 SFO-LAX VX routes - cheaper once you're out there, but you have to factor that into your cost. Basically, if you can find the 50 quid fares on LHR-MAN, you can earn Gold from scratch for £2K.
#835295 by at240
18 Jan 2013, 20:42
Good post. I agree with your analysis - there was a thread about this in the summer, which I can't find right now, which I think priced a TP typically at around £120, and noted that a sale return to DXB offered a good discount.

I guess the obvious question is whether we think VS will maintain such a generous setup on the domestics. Hope so. :D
#835298 by ratechaser
18 Jan 2013, 20:59
I think part of the problem for Virgin as regards TPs is that they need a zero adding on the end, if they are ever to have the required granularity to cope with long and short haul differences. Although by the same token, it never really differentiated between destinations like DXB and JFK which really are only mid-haul, versus genuine long haul such as LAX/HKG etc.

I could easily see VS redenominating TPs if short haul takes off, but for the time being, it could be a good marketing tool to get these routes up and running. Still hoping that BHD/BFS gets a look in at some point.
#835319 by slinky09
19 Jan 2013, 06:07
Fascinating Pete, I hadn't thought of it in this way before and, as you point out, miles and TPs earnt are very poor value if you have to book say a W or J fare class ticket. Which to me is counterintuitive.

Because I travel to meet customers with an ever changing diary a lot of my flights are W fare PE tickets upgraded to UC with miles - D's and J's particularly to the east coast are phenomenally expensive where I can't plan ahead. Mind you W's are often £2,300-2,400 for JFK or EWR and for that money one should expect a UC experience. On this basis, PE to New York in W costs around £300 per TP and 34.5 pence per mile ... and probably more if you book a fully priced J ticket (even after the TP bonus and extra miles).

I'd have to play some but I wonder what the poorest value route / ticket is for earning miles and TPs - my bet remains on JFK in J, so no wonder this is the most lucrative airline route in the world!
#835465 by joeyc
20 Jan 2013, 22:37
A good thread Pete, never really thought about it like this :?

Ahh yes I remember the good old SIN-KUL route.. did it myself once or twice whenever I was in that neck of the woods.

I agree with Slinky, the worst earning route has to be on the full fare premium cabins... not necessarily the LHR-JFK route alone though :P

ratechaser wrote:I could easily see VS redenominating TPs if short haul takes off


Similar to BAs current lineup? They do appear to go to a lot of trouble to decide on which routes earn a higher amount of Tier points than others, also interesting the way they break down TPs and miles earned with their OneWorld partners with the preferred amounts going rightly to BA flights.

Although for VS to start this would require them to issue a greater range of TPs wouldn't it? Something outside of the 1-12 range for a flight (or 2 if on the LHR-SYD run).. Perhaps something to look forward to, as well as the subsequent raising in the qualifying boundaries, after the deal with DL is finalised ii)
#836380 by tonywestsider
30 Jan 2013, 06:17
Posting as a VS/VX flyer in the US: As of January 2013, VS has already re-denominated TPs for VX flights. SFO-LAX VX F class used to earn at least 2 TP per segment. This has been downgraded to 1 TP per segment for VX F.

VS is also ending their partnership with US Airways, where TPs could be earned by flying US domestically in the US. The partnership ends on 11 June.

Still, a deal that I sometimes use to get VS TP is to fly on SQ's JFK-FRA route. This route at least earns 4 TP in Y class, equivalent to VS TP earned in Y class for the NYC-LHR route.
#836434 by joeyc
30 Jan 2013, 14:25
tonywestsider wrote:Posting as a VS/VX flyer in the US: As of January 2013, VS has already re-denominated TPs for VX flights. SFO-LAX VX F class used to earn at least 2 TP per segment. This has been downgraded to 1 TP per segment for VX F.


Interesting bit of info.. still showing as 2TP on the VS site. Very interested as I'm travelling over that way in a few months, was (and still am) torn between investing in F or going good ol main cabin ii)

When is this taking effect exactly?

Cheers 8D
#836485 by tonywestsider
31 Jan 2013, 04:33
joeyc wrote:
tonywestsider wrote:Posting as a VS/VX flyer in the US: As of January 2013, VS has already re-denominated TPs for VX flights. SFO-LAX VX F class used to earn at least 2 TP per segment. This has been downgraded to 1 TP per segment for VX F.


Interesting bit of info.. still showing as 2TP on the VS site. Very interested as I'm travelling over that way in a few months, was (and still am) torn between investing in F or going good ol main cabin ii)

When is this taking effect exactly?

Cheers 8D


I stand to be corrected. I just checked the VS USA website once again and you are correct. Flying VX F under 2,000 miles will still earn you 2 TP. My bad!
#836564 by tonywestsider
01 Feb 2013, 01:39
tonywestsider wrote:
joeyc wrote:
tonywestsider wrote:Posting as a VS/VX flyer in the US: As of January 2013, VS has already re-denominated TPs for VX flights. SFO-LAX VX F class used to earn at least 2 TP per segment. This has been downgraded to 1 TP per segment for VX F.


Interesting bit of info.. still showing as 2TP on the VS site. Very interested as I'm travelling over that way in a few months, was (and still am) torn between investing in F or going good ol main cabin ii)

When is this taking effect exactly?

Cheers 8D


I stand to be corrected. I just checked the VS USA website once again and you are correct. Flying VX F under 2,000 miles will still earn you 2 TP. My bad!


I had to check the VS website again to see if it was My bad or not that I missed the bit of info on VX TP. It turns out that the VS website has TP info on two different pages. One page like this has less info, in fact no info on VX TP:

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/us/fr ... sindex.jsp

Then if you go to another page, which you have seen, the VX TP info will show:

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/us/fr ... /index.jsp
#836570 by joeyc
01 Feb 2013, 02:24
tonywestsider wrote:I had to check the VS website again to see if it was My bad or not that I missed the bit of info on VX TP. It turns out that the VS website has TP info on two different pages. One page like this has less info, in fact no info on VX TP:

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/us/fr ... sindex.jsp

Then if you go to another page, which you have seen, the VX TP info will show:

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/us/fr ... /index.jsp


Ahh the VS website giving two pieces of conflicting data!! Never :P

The first link is to a very old page... check out the old school card designs and Virgin Blue has not been around for a while (Virgin Australia now...)

The second link is the up to date info.

Easy mistake to make though, there are clearly some weird links to old pages still embedded in the site.. when the new amenity kits were announced last year I accidentally posted links to a page showing the Ozwald Boateng designed kits from 2004... I found that page by searching amenity kits on the VS site ii)

Still looks to be 2 TP each way in F, def good for a TP run if needed.

Cheers 8D
#836617 by Scrooge
01 Feb 2013, 14:33
Blacky1 wrote:Just had a look at the old UC on the link you posted joey,before I started flying with virgin,what was it like? Did you prefer it ?
Blacky


That is the J2000 seat, it was a flat seat, but not lay flat, in that regards the UCS is better.

In every other way VS was a far better airline in those days.
#836619 by joeyc
01 Feb 2013, 14:39
Scrooge wrote:
Blacky1 wrote:Just had a look at the old UC on the link you posted joey,before I started flying with virgin,what was it like? Did you prefer it ?
Blacky


That is the J2000 seat, it was a flat seat, but not lay flat, in that regards the UCS is better.

In every other way VS was a far better airline in those days.


Have separated off into this thread: forum/index.php?f=4&t=278628&rb_v=viewtopic , so we do not distract from Pete's OP.

Please do let me know the difference between flat seat and lay flat.... always figured it was lay flat as you were at angle pretty much sleeping on the floor :P
#851460 by SoloFlyer
14 Jul 2013, 17:49
Hey guys I have a trip to Toronto coming up this September and now the DL tie up is in place I finally have a better earning opportunity (used to fly US on this route). Anyway I have just found a one way ticket there in 1st on DL for $498 (BWI-ATL-YYZ) which I think is quite good value considering I should, according to VS website, get 6 tier points for this and 150% of the miles flown. Just wanted to gauge what your opinions were on this price as I think it's quite a nice tier point earner

Solo
#851462 by Penny_L
14 Jul 2013, 18:41
SoloFlyer wrote:Hey guys I have a trip to Toronto coming up this September and now the DL tie up is in place I finally have a better earning opportunity (used to fly US on this route). Anyway I have just found a one way ticket there in 1st on DL for $498 (BWI-ATL-YYZ) which I think is quite good value considering I should, according to VS website, get 6 tier points for this and 150% of the miles flown. Just wanted to gauge what your opinions were on this price as I think it's quite a nice tier point earner

Solo


isnt it 3 points for one way
#851463 by SoloFlyer
14 Jul 2013, 19:02
Penny_L wrote:
SoloFlyer wrote:Hey guys I have a trip to Toronto coming up this September and now the DL tie up is in place I finally have a better earning opportunity (used to fly US on this route). Anyway I have just found a one way ticket there in 1st on DL for $498 (BWI-ATL-YYZ) which I think is quite good value considering I should, according to VS website, get 6 tier points for this and 150% of the miles flown. Just wanted to gauge what your opinions were on this price as I think it's quite a nice tier point earner

Solo


isnt it 3 points for one way


I thought cause it was connecting in Atlanta it would be classified as two flights so then it would be 6 tier points. If not then I guess it's not as great value as I thought
#852513 by Hamster
25 Jul 2013, 01:38
I remember asking a question to VS about TPs on connecting flights e.g. FLL-SFO-LAS. The reply was, it's down to how VX ticketed it/informed VS... Sorry that doesn't help!
#852516 by SoloFlyer
25 Jul 2013, 03:01
Yeah I am still unsure about this. I think/hope that it is classed as two flights. I have done a connecting flight with VX before and it did credit through as two seperate flights and I got two sets of tier points but DL could be a whole other kettle of fish. Has anyone had a qualifying DL flight credited to their account?
#852521 by Penny_L
25 Jul 2013, 07:40
Hamster wrote:I remember asking a question to VS about TPs on connecting flights e.g. FLL-SFO-LAS. The reply was, it's down to how VX ticketed it/informed VS... Sorry that doesn't help!


I have several VX flights LAS-SFO-BOS only earned 1 set of TP's even though they connected at SFO to a different flight no.
#852538 by joeyc
25 Jul 2013, 11:50
Penny_L wrote:
Hamster wrote:I remember asking a question to VS about TPs on connecting flights e.g. FLL-SFO-LAS. The reply was, it's down to how VX ticketed it/informed VS... Sorry that doesn't help!


I have several VX flights LAS-SFO-BOS only earned 1 set of TP's even though they connected at SFO to a different flight no.


Ok, can't really comment on what went wrong penny as I can think of a few ways that flights would be excluded and you don't mention how you got the ticket (reward fares are excluded) or class of travel (some of the deep discounted economy buckets earn nothing-these don't tend to be seen around any more though).

As Hamster says it could also be that VX have failed to pass on the correct info... in that case procedure is to send off boarding passes to VS as proof that you earned more than was given - Been through it myself when US Airways failed to communicate to VS I had earned on a few US domestic flights, no probs and boarding passes sent off, a couple of weeks later TPs and miles appeared in my account :D :D

Otherwise, a sector is defined as a single flight travel from A-B. If you are routing through somewhere else you should be earning TPs and miles for A-B and also for B-C.

In terms of DL - same as all the others. Earning is done on a flight by flight basis. Source for this is the ever helpful VS website - TP earning is on a one-way partner flight basis; and the miles are earned on the same principal although it doesn't state this in any clear lingo... there are qualifying fare types for DL, so make sure you are in the appropriate fare bucket |:)
#853277 by SoloFlyer
02 Aug 2013, 07:31
joeyc wrote:In terms of DL - same as all the others. Earning is done on a flight by flight basis. Source for this is the ever helpful VS website - TP earning is on a one-way partner flight basis; and the miles are earned on the same principal although it doesn't state this in any clear lingo... there are qualifying fare types for DL, so make sure you are in the appropriate fare bucket |:)


Hey guys thanks for your advice. I have just checked the flight again and the fare codes match (both flights are G). Remarkably,however, the price has dropped significantly to $209. This seems a bargain for 6 tier points and all those miles. Is it just me that thinks this is all too good to be true.

Thanks
Solo
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