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#240770 by Decker
14 Feb 2006, 16:41
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Shorter report than normal as I didn't bother cracking out the laptop!

Turned up at JFK using a shortcut from Long Island and did my usual 'drive aimlessly in circles getting increasingly lost trying to find the car return'. I had no intentions of returning the rental car to the airport but the depot was shut on the Sunday due to bad weather so I had no choice. Regretfully my TomTom map ended a mile short of the airport in mid Jamaica... grrr.

Eventually found Avis and dumped car and got to sky train. 15 minute wait and then onto a packed train. Disembarked at T4 and walked to the checkin area. I had checked in online but looking at the respective queues thought it wiser to use UC. Bad mistake. There were at least three check in lines for UC each coralled by its own little tensile barrier. I was in the rightmost with one person in front of me who was soon seen. As she departed I stepped to one side to allow her past and the mother and son in the central queue ran over to 'my' checkin person with one of the biggest trolleys full of luggage I have ever seen en route to DEL. First time I have seen someone use their full UC allowance!

The lady behind and I shared despairing glances and furtively discussed stepping in. The British wish not to cause a scene won out and after a minute or two the lady behind me swapped queues to the central queue as that was now going to go faster. Another gentleman stood behind her and by the time he was first in the queue I decided to join his queue. As his person became available the people to his left darted over and took his checkin person. We repeated the despairing glance scenario and he moved to my former queue where he was rapidly seen so I rejoined my original queue and was checked in.

Now I now I COULD have complained on both occasions but surely ground staff can see who is next in line and enforce some kind of courtesy?

It seemed that several of the people travelling including the American mother and son in front of me were endorsed from other airlines.

I made my way to the Club House and whilst it wasn't heaving service was not exactly flowing smoothly. I sat down at around 18:00 and by 18:15 decided that perhaps I'd better get my own drink. Returning to my seat I was asked around 18:20 by one of our favourite CH Personnel what I'd like to eat. I opted for the burger and she castigated me for not grabbing her attention earlier given that boarding was due to start in 10 minutes! No worries, the burger arrived and was wolfed down and I was on my way to the gate by 18:34.

The fast track worked quite well this time and I found myself behind Mrs and Master Pushy from the checkin. I was able to see their boarding cards and see that they were in the facing seats directly behind me... I knew that my seat had no overhead so a cunning plan formed [}:)]. Through security as quickly as possible (no shoe removal!) and a brisk walk to the gate and straight on with priority boarding. I was soon ensconced in my seat with my bags in the nearest overhead lockers behind me [:I]. A few minutes later Master and Mrs (decided that scans better) arrived and were most bemused by the lack of overhead space. In all fairness though there was no kvetching just acceptance. Perhaps the queue jumping was just a cultural thing not a deliberately rude thing.

Usual settle down ritual, changed into sleep suit and the very attentive CSS hung my clothes for me. After 30 minutes or so one the crew offered a second drinks round - giggling when I asked if we were going to be late pushing back then... and we were, 19:50 pushback and a 20:25 rotation. Nearly an hour late but a fast flight so 'time would be made up'. I guess my question for the experts here is if they left on time would they then arrive too early to land at LHR?

Menus and amenity kits were on the seats and I was surprised to find that the 19:30 flight was now a GNF flight. Apparently all East Coast evening flights are now. The FSM was a humourous cove who made dummy announcements which generally provoked gails of laughter from the appreciative pax. The favourite seemed to be 'Passenger XYZ has just told us that his girlfriend in New York has just had a baby boy weighing in at 7lbs 2Ozs'... rounds of applause followed. Secondary announcement 'Passenger XYZ has asked us not to tell his wife in London'.

After take off the FSM did the usual secondary safety annoucement deviating slightly from the script in that no mention was made of flight safe modes. I moved to the bar and chatted to the Scouse CSS and queried this. All the crew seemed to agree that it could only be a matter of time before the restriction was raised but that it wasn't yet! Enjoying my chat I decided to eat at the bar and chatted to a young gentleman who spookily had been eating at the same restaurant in Rockville Centre on the same night as me earlier that week!

I had the seasonal salad with beef, hot breads and cheese. Not wonderful but hey... the CSS tried to persuade me to try the Fallen vodka but mindful of the need to be conscious the next morning I declined and returned to my seat which I made into a bed and kipped down on for a few hours. Sleep was elusive but I managed to doze, springing into life at the 30 minute warning. Changed back into civvies, cleaned teeth and awaited deportation to some g-dforsaken stand in T5.

Much to my pleasure it was not to be and we arrived at Gate 32 close to immigration. A quick dash from the plane had me at the baggage belt with 07:10 and by 07:15 baggage was streaming past. Problem was most of it was Economy. I counted over 50 pieces of Economy before the first set of three UC bags came off, then 2 PE, the 50 more Economy. The bulk of UC luggage did not arrive until 07:40 so I watched the conveyor for 30 minutes.

My Addison Lee car was waiting for me as promised and on the way home I was introduced to some new Ghanian music by a Mr Odeneho and his new CD 'Obolobo'. Very Soca feel with some dancehall and a little dub. Very danceable it you can do that holding one hand in air and rotating other near solar plexus in a miming ballroom thing. I can't but hey...

So again a great VS flight marred by outsourced groundstaff in the US and Baggage Handlers in the UK.
#334368 by Mavrick
14 Feb 2006, 17:13
Good T.R. Decker. [y]...I hate it when you pay good money to fly UC. and then the Economy bags come out first.[}:)][}:)]
#334369 by Decker
14 Feb 2006, 17:23
Well I paid for PE and upgraded with miles [;)]
#334370 by mike-smashing
14 Feb 2006, 17:25
Originally posted by Decker
Nearly an hour late but a fast flight so 'time would be made up'. I guess my question for the experts here is if they left on time would they then arrive too early to land at LHR?


Right, so there's a pre-6am embargo on LHR. Certain flights, that are scheduled to arrive before 6am can land. I'm told by a friend who works at West Drayton that it's also possible to 'swap' a slot, so if a pre-6am arrival is late, and another plane shows up early, it is possible to do a limited number of swaps.

Anything else scheduled to land after 6am has to either hold, so that it doesn't start it's final approach before 6am, or deliberately leaves it's origin late, so as not to arrive early.

When the flightplan is generated, the estimated en-route time (EET) will be calculated, and so a wheels up (OFF) time is calculated from the time that you want to arrive at the destination.

This is why Eastbound flights from the US seldom seem to be in a rush to get away.

Cheers,
Mike
#334371 by andrew.m.wright
14 Feb 2006, 17:28
Originally posted by Decker
I guess my question for the experts here is if they left on time would they then arrive too early to land at LHR?


Whilst not an expert that's what the crew on VS 012 from Boston told me last week, and indeed when we arrived nearly 50 minutes early at LHR, we were straight in the 'Hold Pattern' until the scheduled landing time.

Heathrow is a very busy place in the early morning.
#334375 by V-Ben
14 Feb 2006, 17:38
Certain airlines have an allocation of flights that can land before 6am.

Both BA and the single VS flight from HKG will usually be okay landing before 6am as both airlines have sufficient allocation, but Cathay can only land one of their flights before 6am.... I've spent over 90 mins on the ground at HKG beause of this when tail winds were predicted.

Annoying moved from the lounge as it was closing, but having a few decent glasses of bubbly onboard instead.

Early arrival during night time restrictions can result in a fine.
#334376 by RichardMannion
14 Feb 2006, 17:54
Originally posted by Decker
A quick dash from the plane had me at the baggage belt with 07:10 and by 07:15 baggage was streaming past. Problem was most of it was Economy. I counted over 50 pieces of Economy before the first set of three UC bags came off, then 2 PE, the 50 more Economy. The bulk of UC luggage did not arrive until 07:40 so I watched the conveyor for 30 minutes.

So again a great VS flight marred by outsourced groundstaff in the US and Baggage Handlers in the UK.


Oh for goodness sake not again, I really am getting tired of this now from the baggage team at LHR, and with some of the outsourced groundstaff at certain stations. Priority baggage handling is part of the premium services for PE, UC and FC Au customers, and the sooner that these staff learn this the better. I'm due to visit HQ soon to talk to the right person about exactly this matter - I know some senior people at VS that have experienced this problem firsthand and it was meant to be gettign better. Obviously another revisit is required I think.

Thanks,
Richard
#334379 by preiffer
14 Feb 2006, 18:04
I'm sure they're looking forward to it, Richard...
#334382 by mike-smashing
14 Feb 2006, 18:07
Originally posted by RichardMannion
Oh for goodness sake not again, I really am getting tired of this now from the baggage team at LHR, and with some of the outsourced groundstaff at certain stations.


Remember, this seems to be slipping since VS sold it's share in Plane Handling (so it doesn't have any 'control' anymore), the outsource of the station operations in the US, and loadplanning to somewhere in Thailand (e.g. the 'priority can(s)' is (are) misloaded deep in the hold, rather than being one of the first out).

That's what happens when you outsource.

You lose direct control, waste management time writing specifications for your suppliers to ignore, even more management time having meetings discussing why they aren't delivering on the spec, and even more time trying to break out of the contract sooner when you realise it's beyond rescue. We haven't even started on the employee time yet.

Mike, cynic...
#334394 by ChuckC
14 Feb 2006, 18:50
Decker,
Gotta love those reports of yours. What a flair thou has with the language. Just happy to see that the Nor'easter didn't gobble your grip (that's 'luggage') even though they were late coming off the belt.

As for the outsourced staff ...[}:)][}:)], I ran into a similar issue last week with AA and its quite small station at Long Beach, CA. The counter agent had a problem with speaking English and the gate agent looked straight ahead and never showed any expression of interest. Just an awful experience.
Chuck-
#334402 by RichardMannion
14 Feb 2006, 19:07
Originally posted by preiffer
I'm sure they're looking forward to it, Richard...


[:)] The person responsible at HQ for all the airport operations is very good, they are open to constructive feedback and know they are very committed to making things right. Its just that some of his staff let the side down. Nothing like getting off a greeat flight, and having the whole experience ruined by poor groundstaff.

Thanks,
Richard
#334436 by buns
14 Feb 2006, 21:30
Decker

Glad to here that you were not stranded in NY following the heavy snowfalls there. Given the chaos that must have created for airline schedules, the scrum at JFK was perhaps a small price to pay[;)] I presume that the 'featured' pax in your TR did not come to further attention during the flight[:w]

Thanks for a captivating TR[y][y][y]

buns
#334480 by milehigh
15 Feb 2006, 02:14
Anyone watched the film 'meet the parents' the airline girl at the check-in and gate must have been outsourced.

Great TR, glad the crew didnt let the trip down, but they are not outsourced !!
#334482 by roadrunner
15 Feb 2006, 02:47
Re: priority baggage--does the order of loading affect the unloading?

RR
#334490 by iforres1
15 Feb 2006, 09:41
Decker,

I can just imagine your angelic smile when you mentioned if they were going to be late pushing back[:I]

Iain
#334505 by HighFlyer
15 Feb 2006, 10:56
Another cracking read as always [y]
#334568 by mike-smashing
15 Feb 2006, 16:18
Originally posted by roadrunner
Re: priority baggage--does the order of loading affect the unloading?


Yep. Baggage loading is generally 'first in, last out'.

Airlines usually put all the priority bags in the same cans, and they are among the last to be loaded - i.e. right next to the cargo door, so that they are first off at the far end.

However, safety is the main thing, and so this can be overriden by weight and balance requirements.

Mike
#334610 by Lipstick
15 Feb 2006, 19:23
Originally posted by RichardMannion
Originally posted by Decker
A quick dash from the plane had me at the baggage belt with 07:10 and by 07:15 baggage was streaming past. Problem was most of it was Economy. I counted over 50 pieces of Economy before the first set of three UC bags came off, then 2 PE, the 50 more Economy. The bulk of UC luggage did not arrive until 07:40 so I watched the conveyor for 30 minutes.

So again a great VS flight marred by outsourced groundstaff in the US and Baggage Handlers in the UK.


Oh for goodness sake not again, I really am getting tired of this now from the baggage team at LHR, and with some of the outsourced groundstaff at certain stations. Priority baggage handling is part of the premium services for PE, UC and FC Au customers, and the sooner that these staff learn this the better. I'm due to visit HQ soon to talk to the right person about exactly this matter - I know some senior people at VS that have experienced this problem firsthand and it was meant to be gettign better. Obviously another revisit is required I think.

Thanks,
Richard


Lol you both make it sound so easy to run an airline!

If only you knew the half of it when it comes to loading and unloading baggage!!
#334612 by Decker
15 Feb 2006, 19:49
Hey Lipstick - in our world when you make a contractual commitment to a client which includes projected service levels you try and keep them. It's not my job to second guess how hard it is to make those commitments and keep them [;)]. I'll leave that up to those who know what they're talking about.
#334613 by RichardMannion
15 Feb 2006, 19:51
Maybe, the senior people at VS that I speak to would agree with me about certain stations. Hence why they are trying to fix it.

I understand how planes should be loaded, and I understand when staff don't care or are not interested (regardless of policy), you can tell from their demeanour. I may not know everything about loading or unloading as you alluded to, but I know its no rocket science and it doesn't take a genius to do it properly. I have had the process explained to me by a few people and it sounds logical to me, its just that sometimes laziness prevails.

No one ever said it was easy to run an airline, what I don't like is when staff genuinely don't give a toss about the customer and cannot be bothered to follow the correct procedures - the staff at LHR have been told enough times about unloading the premium baggage first. The amount of times I have had to go over to the desk because the belt is full of Y luggage and no sign at all of the J luggage is simply too much now, there is no excuse I have not heard. Some staff clearly don't understand the products and offerings that VS has in place, and show no willingness to listen to a customer (heavens forbid that the customer may be right). I thought it was just me, but when I speak to others that fly quite a bit with VS and they are experiencing the same then there really is a problem, and one I am confident that will be resolved through the determination of the staff that want to make the whole experience right.

Some stations get luggage right all the time in regards to adhering to the loading/unloading standards, others are less consistent. LHR is one of the latter.

Thanks,
Richard
#335294 by JAT74L
18 Feb 2006, 19:20
And there speaketh the Dick (jnr)!

Great TR Decker, made me titter!

Regards

John
Virgin Atlantic

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